Europe divorcing America

Originally posted by akalepos

Originally posted by mackey1224uk

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
As an american I would hope America gets allimony and chid support especially for saving them in WWII.

And who did you excactly save in ww2 because it was'nt the brits.

You saved the russians, and the rest of the europen countryts. From what I can remember not one German foot soldier set foot on british soil so can you tell me how you so-called yanks, saved us from Hilter?

what was the name of that island that the germans held there?

I just saw it the other day. It was one of those "consessions" wasn't it?

Some british tv company did a whole mini series on it.

You probably mean the Channel Islands like Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark etc?

See Wiki:

The islands were the only part of the British Commonwealth occupied by Germany during the Second World War. The German occupation of 1940–45 was harsh: over 2,000 Islanders were deported by the Germans, Jews sent to concentration camps; partisan resistance and retribution; accusations of collaboration; and slave labour (primarily Russians and eastern Europeans) brought to the islands to build fortifications, with 65,718 landmines laid in Jersey alone.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
As an american I would hope America gets allimony and chid support especially for saving them in WWII.

Yeah and i hope you send us some stuff for the 2 years we were fighting before you finally joined in. You do understand that if Britain and it's allies had not kept Hitler at bay then he would have no doubt consolidated his power in Europe and given Britains ship yards and other industries, he could have built enough naval might to bombard the USA. Oh and without the British special operations and French resistance sabotaging the Nazi's research then they would have more than likely gotten the first atomic bomb.

It's amazing how some americans spout out this rubbish whenever they're losing an argument. It's always the same thing as well.I have read you saying this was a joke but i have a feeling that's you trying to get out of saying something so utterly ridiculous.

EDIT

I don't think Europe is divorcing america, tons of the kids growing up now are completely buying into the american dream. Sadly that dream has been twisted and distorted so it now involves being born, being indoctrinated into believing that consuming will make you happy, and accepting corporations as sort of surrogate parents.



[edit on 14-4-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Sadly that dream has been twisted and distorted so it now involves being born, being indoctrinated into believing that consuming will make you happy, and accepting corporations as sort of surrogate parents.

If that's the definition then you Brits have been doing that for just as long as we have anyway, if not longer.

Originally posted by OddTimeSignature

Originally posted by Insomniac

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Actually, when I was living in England, they tended to be far more pro-America than pro-France or Germany, etc...
Some even became quite offended when I referred to them as european...they claimed either they were western, or simply british...denying their forced linking to the continent..

Yep, I think this true for most of us - certainly in England... I think the Scots like the French because they are both our traditional enemies, but I can't really speak for Scotland. But yes, Saturn FX is right, culturally we're much closer to the US than Europe... And no, I don't consider myself to be European.

These are some very interesting points...how come England feels closer to US than EU ?

Good question! I guess it's a number of factors. Similar culture, outlook, language and fiscal system. The fact that The EU is a sprawling undemocratic Bureaucratic monster doesn't help!

In a nutshell, I think Americans and Brits just 'get each other' and the anti-EU sentiment is stronger in England than other parts of the UK because some, if not all of the other nations in the UK would like independence from the UK and become a nation state within the EU having seen the financial benefits that Ireland (Eire) received upon embracing the EU and then joining the single currency.

Originally posted by Insomniac
having seen the financial benefits that Ireland (Eire) received upon embracing the EU and then joining the single currency.

Thats a waaaaay overly simple attempt at explaining the Irish boom..

If Ireland were an Island situated in the same geographical location as Holland or more to the East, the EU accession and EURO would not have done much for it..

Location in relation having an hour to deal directly with Corporations in the US before the internet..
Cost of business..
A corporate tax rate half that of most EU states..
Educated and efficient workforce..
The fact that it has a massive agricultural and fishing base..

While I will admit completely that EU accession was a big boost.. there's no point in trying to say, like the usual Brit opinion might I add, that joining the EU makes you rich. That just shows lack of scope and economic knowledge..

And might I also add.. lack of incite as to why some people want out of the UK..



[edit on 14/4/10 by Dermo]

reply to post by Dermo


I agree it was an over simple explanation - sorry if I offended, but I was trying to reflect that many people see it that way and do indeed see membership of the EU as a fast way to riches which explains the clamour of European countries desperately trying to join. To me to have gone into detail about Ireland would strayed from the point I was trying to make, but thank you very much for adding the information.

reply to post by Insomniac




T'is the perfect website to be pedantic lol

IMHO I think that while we are all argueing between Europe and America, TPTB will end up winning. Instead of dividing ourselves we should be thinking about uniting.
I am portuguese but more importantly, I'm from Earth.
America's problem is my problem, for we all live in the same 'home'.
I don't think we will be accomplishing anything while competing against eachother.

PS: Sorry this is kindof offtopic.

Originally posted by kr0ss
IMHO I think that while we are all argueing between Europe and America, TPTB will end up winning. Instead of dividing ourselves we should be thinking about uniting.
I am portuguese but more importantly, I'm from Earth.
America's problem is my problem, for we all live in the same 'home'.
I don't think we will be accomplishing anything while competing against eachother.

PS: Sorry this is kindof offtopic.

I said it earlier in thread but...I think the whole big idea about the EU are to compete with US and Asia, and in the long term being a superpower...Its the same idea the nazis had just a different approach...

I dont think this thread is about arguing...I see it more like different peoples discussing, and thats the first step to beat the TPTB...

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by Insomniac

 

T'is the perfect website to be pedantic lol

Deny ignorance, embrace pedantism!

Why all this talk about the US "saving" Europe in WWII? What do you imagine would be so horrible about a German victory?

At least there would be no Muslims or Africans coming here destroying our continent due to some irrational politically correct guilt complex and moral blackmail called "Auschwitz".

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Tussilago]

Originally posted by Tussilago
Why all this talk about the US "saving" Europe in WWII? What do you imagine would be so horrible about a German victory?

At the time, many inhabitants of France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Greece were experiencing the effects of temporary German victory, and many of them seem to have thought that continued German victory would be undesirable.

I won't suggest possible reasons for this sentiment, because that would really turn it into a bad-tempered thread.

I think I noticed that your own origin is Swedish, in which case memories of German occupation will not form part of your national folk-memory.

Originally posted by kr0ssTPTB will end up winning. Instead of dividing ourselves we should be thinking about uniting.

They've already won and did so in WWII, defeating the only force in play, namely Fascism, that was de facto rebelling against the PTB, whatever else we may think about it.

Originally posted by Tussilago

Originally posted by kr0ssTPTB will end up winning. Instead of dividing ourselves we should be thinking about uniting.

They've already won and did so in WWII, defeating the only force in play, namely Fascism, that was de facto rebelling against the PTB, whatever else we may think about it.

Again, I note that your countrymen had no direct experience of living as part of a fascist state.
Apparently members of the ruling party in such states behaved as much like members of TPTB as it would be possible to get.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Tussilago
Why all this talk about the US "saving" Europe in WWII? What do you imagine would be so horrible about a German victory?

At the time, many inhabitants of France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Greece were experiencing the effects of temporary German victory, and many of them seem to have thought that continued German victory would be undesirable.

Only because they were nationalist in sentiment and resented being occupied. Quite natural in the proud Europe of the times. Nevertheless, most of those occupations were simply the results of strategic expedience on behalf of Germany in its struggle to defeat Britain and end the war, not ends in themselves.

I think I noticed that your own origin is Swedish, in which case memories of German occupation will not form part of your national folk-memory.

True, but that does not mean we are urged to hate on Nazism any less, and if you don't you're a socially dead person. Folk memory means almost nothing in today's Europe, only the relentless propaganda favoring free immigration and multiculturalism at any price, even our own lives and sanity. And it's always the fate of the poor innocent Jews that get trotted out to keep the European obedient and mentally subdued, so who the hell is effecting this brainwash conditioning on us?

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Tussilago]

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Tussilago

Originally posted by kr0ssTPTB will end up winning. Instead of dividing ourselves we should be thinking about uniting.

They've already won and did so in WWII, defeating the only force in play, namely Fascism, that was de facto rebelling against the PTB, whatever else we may think about it.

Again, I note that your countrymen had no direct experience of living as part of a fascist state.
Apparently members of the ruling party in such states behaved as much like members of TPTB as it would be possible to get.

Well the Swedes in WW2 where very pro the Germans in general, and the Germans did see Swedes as its brothers from the Nordic race...even the Swedish King was pro German...but when they heard about the outrageous warcrimes from Germans, the Swedes closed the borders for Germany...

Originally posted by Tussilago

Only because they were nationalist in sentiment and resented being occupied. Quite natural in the proud Europe of the times.

Not just for that reason. I think you will find, if you look into history and biography, that many of them had really bad experiences. There was a reason why there were Resistance movements. Not to go into details, but the Jews were not the only people who suffered.

reply to post by DJW001


Considering that the whole war was a sham, and all the international powers were in on it, no one could have really saved anyone's ass.

Here's a good read, scroll down it discusses Hitler's war a little in depth.

______beforeitsnews/news/32106/The_Wake_Up_Call...Shattering_Denial.html

Originally posted by Tussilago
Why all this talk about the US "saving" Europe in WWII? What do you imagine would be so horrible about a German victory?

Thats something I have always wondered about..

Its understandable that Nationalism, cleansing of Jews, Poles and Slavs and Occupation caused the main dislike of the Nazi's but would Hitler have re-democratized Europe and Russia when he was finished? A mainly democratic Empire of sorts under the Nazi Party? Its hard to fathom..

It would have been a very very different world.. Imagine Europe and North Africa running on German precision and technology? We'd be 20 years more advanced and have an huge Eugenics based reproduction system.. Or else completely destroyed in a Nuclear holocaust with the US..

reply to post by Dermo


Fascist ruling parties, like Communist ones. did not give up power easily.

This would have been an enormous barrier against any re-democratisation. They would not relax the grip without some sort of later revolution/continental civil war.