It seems like 90% of those who say science is a lie are uneducated in field or just dumb

Is it just me or does it seem like 90% of those who bash science or either not educated in any scientific field or even educated at all?


I'm really starting to get sick of seeing how many people come on here and completely bash science without any knowledge, education, or even a legit argument.
It seems as if people who aren't capable of understanding most of science just claim it's fake. Do people not understand that reading the basics of a theory is only 40%, maybe 50%, of fully understanding some theories.

When it comes to physics theories people are extremely quick to castigate a theory without understanding how it was made. Theories are created by some of the most brilliant men alive, researching with tools that many do not get a chance to use, an extremely high level of mathematical intellect, which is needed for testing the theories. You must understand theories created before or with other theories. I can almost guarantee most of the people claiming this is all fake don't know math past algebra or maybe even trig. I can also almost guarantee these same people couldn't tell me anything about something as simple as classical mechanics.

When it comes to other sciences, without them we would be nothing like we are today. The cars people drive, the computers we use, television we watch, microwaves, x-rays, medical machines used for saving lives, none of these would exist were it not for science. We can give the blind a chance to see by implanting electrical chips in certain spots, those who are going def or already def are given hearing aids that make it possible for them to hear again or even a chance to hear at all.

These are just a small number of the amazing and life changing items or scenarios science was used to create or aid. Most of you take things for granted like the keyboard you hit when you type these claims. Or those who believe conspiracies and claim science is fake. How do the people researching your conspiracies get their stories? Scientific research is the answer folks. They use the same tools as the rest of the scientific world.

And then the religious people. You guys have been bashing science since day 1 for no good reason at all. Is it the fact that many of the theories explain events and objects that contradict certain religious stories? Or the fact that some give a different theory as to why we exist other than something as simple as saying a god made us? It almost amazes me how much faith is placed in a book that has been rewritten and handed down over the ages over something as modern as science.


SCIENCE ISN'T FAKE GET OVER IT!

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i cant read the whole topic its cutoff, can someone fix it??

i like that topics sum up posts and subjects meaning its easier to respond then by reading the post.

lets do it!

reply to post by seangkt


Is it just me or does it seem fundamentally wrong (as well as rude) to create a post commenting on the lack of education of other ATS users as part of a smear campaign? The first sentence of your post transforms your entire topic into a petty hit piece.

Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by seangkt

 

Is it just me or does it seem fundamentally wrong (as well as rude) to create a post commenting on the lack of education of other ATS users as part of a smear campaign? The first sentence of your post transforms your entire topic into a petty hit piece.

It isn't rude at all. It's truth.

It's rude to not know anything about a particular subject and make accusations claiming these theories are crap or completely fake in general. I can't count how many times I have seen someone say something like Hawking Radiation is fake because it just is, nuclear fusion doesn't exist or anything else along those lines. None of these people have the slightest idea what it took to create these theories and criticize them the second they see or hear of them.

Go read Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" before
you go spewing about how wonderful science is.

Study the history of tobacco research. Then you will have some idea
of how science can be corrupted.

The most important question about scientific research is no longer the
facts presented, but who paid for it and whose ax is being ground.

I have a lot of respect for the scientific method. Still its no more honest
than those who make it. Or should I say make it up?

Originally posted by seangkt
It isn't rude at all. It's truth.

It's rude to not know anything about a particular subject and make accusations claiming these theories are crap or completely fake in general. I can't count how many times I have seen someone say something like Hawking Radiation is fake because it just is, nuclear fusion doesn't exist or anything else along those lines. None of these people have the slightest idea what it took to create these theories and criticize them the second they see or hear of them.

The truth is rude when it isn't relevant to the subject and the purpose of the truth is simply to belittle people. If someone is incorrect about Hawking Radiation and needs correction, then focus on the evidence rather than on what their level of education is.

Yes, it is rude to not know anything about a particular subject and make all kinds of claims about it. But that doesn't make it okay to fight fire with fire. If someone else is being rude then being rude back doesn't help anything. What helps if focusing on evidence and facts. So had your thread been links to all kinds of science facts so people could educate them self it would have been about 1000% better.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by truthquest]

reply to post by UMayBRite!


You can't take one study that seemed corrupt and assume every other bit of science is corrupt as well. I could have guessed, being a full believer in science, that studies on tobacco would be corrupt anyways. Tobacco is addictive and a money maker, of course there will be strings pulled here because money comes into play. Also I don't smoke so tobacco is meaningless to me but think of fields of science like biology, engineering or chemistry. How crucial of lies could they be telling, if any at all?

Fields with theories like astronomy or physics are very much theory based once you know the basics and more open to criticism but people criticize without understanding or claim that the tools being used and money used to fund projects are corrupted in some way because they can't get their hands on them.

reply to post by truthquest


I actually explained nuclear fusion and was still told it was bull by someone who could barely spell or form a sentence. It's ridiculous. I didn't have time to explain the Hawking Radiation and I had already come in too late.
I don't just automatically flip out when someone is claiming something is false but once I try to explain and realize after their third response that they haven't said anything other than, "don't believe it" without even a half decent or horrible explanation I start to lose patience.

It's not only this website either. In some areas they are taking science out of school curriculum because to many people fail the classes. They say minorities fail the classes and science is a "white thing". It has literally gotten that bad.


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[edit on 13-4-2010 by seangkt]

I actually explained nuclear fusion and was still told it was bull by someone who could barely spell or form a sentence. It's ridiculous. I didn't have time to explain the Hawking Radiation and I had already come in too late.

You belittle people who can't spell yet you spelt DEAF twice as DEF ?
My IQ is over 140 but I aint no scientist but I certainly do not understand your rant. As others have said, science has been corrupted by money. As in all fields from coal miners to rocket scientists there is good and bad...
So back off kiddo....

You don't need to be a scientist or even particularly bright to understand when a theory is being misused for political purposes.

The theory of global warming has a solid scientific core. But to take an as-yet untested theory, avoid vigorous peer review by losing the raw data and use propaganda sell a solution to the public that involves trillions of dollars...well at the end of the day....just how qualified do you have to be to call bull#?

TIRED OF CONTROL FREAKS

reply to post by virgom129


The misspelling of one word shouldn't be criticized. Honestly when I made this post spelling or sentence structure aren't the arguments I had in mind but since they have actually happened to me I had to bring them up.

EVERYTHING is corrupted by money. The employees at your local grocery store most likely have a corrupt system. The bosses sit around more than they work, they get paid twice as much for doing nothing and get away with it. Employees know how to cheat time card system and make extra money or they know how and when to steal during work hours. There's no getting away from greed or corruption these days but do you seriously think this means that science has become a lie? If you want to pull that card we might as well go ahead and say just about everything is corrupted and a lie. Things might be corrupt but I highly doubt the corruption would cause scientists to spew lies upon society. That all sounds like conspiracy BS to me.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


I can respect what you are saying. There is backbone to certain theories and the government does misuse them but to anybody who truly knows what global warming is would know that what the government was saying was crap from the beginning. I can see these types of situations occurring more than often but I can't picture the day where everything becomes a complete lie.

You can't take one study that seemed corrupt and assume every other bit of science is corrupt as well.

It didn't just seem corrupt, it was. It wasn't one study, it was decades of stone walling. Its not just tobacco
research either, its a whole list of things.

I suspect you are young, idealistic, and your education has conditioned you
to see science one way.

Undergraduate science is designed to make a nice
neat package, not teach you to ask questions. YOU WERE DUPED!

reply to post by seangkt


i've lost like '3000 points' over bad remarks about things like this.

lol, its one theory that should be kept of this site

reply to post by seangkt


Wow man you have alot of research to do. Do you really think TPTB have left science alone? They have spent more time and effort on science than they have politics and economics combined. This is because our scientific method is of great threat to them. I think you may be grossly underestimating TPTB's manipulation of humanity, just as they want you to. You must know it is the research that gets funding that gets completed, not the research the scientist wants to do, its the money men in controll as usual. And its in the best interests of the money men to keep the masses as dumb as possible.

You see true "connect the dots" knowlegde is the most valuable thing in the world, far more valuable than gold. Your living in a fairytale if you think that knowledge is freely given aways in libraries and universities, and taught for a reasonable loan. The scientists are doing a good job on the narrow feild they specialize in, and im not just saying that becuase I used to be one. Its the miss-direction from the top down, it is way too complicated to unravel in one post mate. Where I could direct you to start questioning is why certain science gets splashed around media and schools and other science is never heard of other than by those in the field regardless of how interesting or the implications, one must be blind to not percieve the manipulation going on in academia, primary through to tertiary education, media education (docos) even post grad. Now im assuming your a scientist when I say this, it is impossible for you to figure it out from within your field of expertise alone, its designed that way. You can figure out deep flaws in your own field then witness the older scientist becoming very uncomfortable at the notion that what they spent their whole lives on is wrong, their intellectual egos taking a big hit, and you may just make change in one field, but you need to broaden your scope into all fields to see how the manipulation has been done. Physics and chemistry affect biology for example, upon shifting your paradigm your going to find it conflicts with all the wrong paradigms around it. It really is a mess, we need to stop the manipulation it seems to be the only way.

reply to post by UMayBRite!


I actually meant to write was not seemed. If you read further I mentioned that something like this would be obvious. Most of the theories people claim are lies are all somewhat common sense in my mind. When it comes to tobacco people should know it is a risk to health by using nothing but common sense alone. Undergrad science is cheaply taught and explained from my experiences but I email my physics teacher on a regular basis with nothing but questions far surpassed what is going on in the class. There's no fun in science if you all do is have your head in a book and believe everything you hear/read and base life off of that.

Science is responsible for too many important inventions, technologies, and has been far to influential on the human race to ever be considered fake or a lie. Sure there might be some studies used for the wrong things but what can you do? 1 bad egg for every dozen doesn't sound bad to me.

reply to post by seangkt


I borrowed this from a thread I read yesterday

a quote Terrence McKenna who said that "science is nothing but a useful metaphore which is easily translated into the production of shiny toys for healthy children." What he meant was that when you ask I scientist how they know science is accessing the truths of reality, the scientist will show you all of the technology that he has been able to build based on scientific theory; all of his toys. McKenna and others suggest that this a naive position. As the author mentions, perhaps scientists are only accessing those truths which are relevant to building toys, and leaving out other truths

By OnceReturned from blinded by scientism
You made the point in your OP of falling for the old "hey look at all the toys science gave us" so thought it poignant to point out what a stoner/philospher thought of such a claim. They are right, manipulation of matter into eccentric little gadgets is not revealing the truth about ourselves or the universe, it is a neat way for money men to divert our focus from truth seeking and direct our wealth back up to them.

reply to post by seangkt


By your own admission " Everything is corrupted by money"
But we are to believe not science?
Wheres the free/cheap enery?
The cancer and other cures?
Global warming?

Shall I go on or do you get the point?

Most scientists start out with grandious ideas but soon learn money/corruption pays the bills.

reply to post by polarwarrior


When given access to big toys and funded research of course you are working for someone and researching what they ask you to. I know and understand the processes but refuse to believe that is how it is everywhere or all the time. What is the point in living in a world where you believe everything is manipulated and nothing can be trusted?

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reply to post by virgom129


The fact that everything is corrupted by money doesn't mean in any way that everything is just lies and fake now.

I don't think anybody knows where the cure for cancer is.
If you can tell me where it is and can confirm it with something other than what some conspiracy says, my hat is off to you.

Free energy....... If allied countries can't let debts go or be lenient on money with each other what makes you think citizens will get free energy?Free energy would be nice but I don't ever expect it because nothing is free in this world.

Global warming is stupid. We all know.

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