freedom ain't free?! stuff it....

you have all been fooled.


"CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS."

What kind of twisted ass logic is this? Don't fight for the very thing on this Earth worth fighting for? The reason we're in this mess is because for a very long time, America has ceased to fight for it's freedom, for what's right.

No one can grant you freedom, like life, it is what you make of it. But complacency can certainly take it away. It is possible to lose your freedom. No fighting back historically leads to slavery and death in the worst ways. Don't confuse your relative comfort for freedom. Comfort isn't something you fight for.

Freedom:

If you can't make mistakes you're not free.
If you can't demand adequate and honest explanations for the actions of those you elect to represent you, you're not free.
If you cannot keep the fruits of you labor because government is taxing you to give kickbacks to private institutions, you're not free.
If you're being told what to buy with force of law, you are not free.
If protesting the war or the bailouts gets you put on a secret watch list not only are you not free, but you're seriously close to living a complete dictatorship.
When everything you communicate, what you think is private is stored at NSA Headquarters, you're not free.
If the President can order a military strike to kill an American citizen in Yemen, tey can do it here- you are not free.

These things are worth fighting against. These things hurt us all. What was used against Liberals, Independents, and Constitutionalists during the Bush years is now being used to alienate those same independents, Constitutionalists, and now Conservatives. This is dividing us. It is killing us as a people. Our freedom is being tested today and I fear that we may be faltering as a nation to recognize the importance of these ideas.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by projectvxn]

[edit on 12-4-2010 by projectvxn]

[edit on 12-4-2010 by projectvxn]

'Freedom' must be one of the most used words on ATS

But it seems everyone's definition of 'freedom' is different

Some want freedom to carry guns

Others feel that others carrying guns would curtail their freedom

So how does it work ?

What exactly are people trying to say when they protest that their 'freedoms' are being 'taken away' ?

Freedom is located between the ears, surely ?

reply to post by tgidkp


It is incrementally being taken away a little here, a little there. It all sounds so reasonable at first, but we gave the government an inch and they have taken a mile. You can no longer call you're land, property, children and body you're own. The invisible albatross of oppression keeps people in check by way of ignorance.

Originally posted by Dock9


Freedom is located between the ears, surely ?

Brilliantly stated.


There is so much nonsense about the word "freedom", and it seems to be the most commonly invoked buzzword in political arguments in this country.

A great example of the 'freedom paradox' is the arguments against health care reform. The most prevalent argument amongst those who oppose it is that it limits freedom. But what about the poor and uninsured? Don't they deserve the "freedom" to see a doctor?

Freedom is a subjective term. Your freedom ends where my freedom begins, and the lines are being re-drawn every day.

reply to post by tgidkp


We are all born free but that freedom can be taken away if you allow yourself to be enslaved. We're all born as free animals on this Earth.

WOW. OP may be a little harsh for me, although i agree rights shouldn't be taken, or given away.

i just wanted to weigh in and point out that if the deficit was any indication of the cost of freedom, we are overdrawn by a few decades if not a few hundred or thousands of decades. provided the "economic model" and monetary systems continue to dictate or steer ideals that effect the population.

given enough rope, capitolism may hang itself.

is this an accurate assesment of current world economies?
and who owns the information?

Who makes the rules?
Rulers make the rules.

catch 22: the less you do, expend and consume, the more free you are.

so yeah, you're free to do whatever you want, but beware the consequences that an over populated world has up it's billions of paranoid sleeves.

Now this is a salient topic, and I hope it gets the attention it deserves. There will be a barrage of platitudes and slogans and vapid outrage in the beginning. But I hope even the (often highly intelligent) posters who will be viscerally offended in the beginning can go back in the cool light of reflection and consider this deeply.

It highlights the fine but bright line between the notion that we, as citizens, have Natural rights to which we are entitled (you heard me and I will say it again, entitled) and for which we owe no one (no one) obeisance or even thanks; and the notion that "we have only those rights which we can defend." Interestingly enough, those who believe in the absolute sanctity of the Constitution are obligated to grit their teeth and acknowledge the former. Those who reject the idea and acknowledge that we only have the rights the Elites choose to give us (as Thucydides had an Athenian general say "The strong do as they will, the weak endure what they must) are obligated to the second view.

Rather awkward for all sides and utterly delicious.

I just want to add, fighting a false unjustefied war, isnt fighting for freedom..

If any nation invades your contry, then you fight for your land and freedom...

Interesting topic and opinions.


Granted, freedom may be termed subjective in today's double-speak world, but the millions of human beings in history that have been beaten, chained, sold, tortured, imprisoned and branded as animals would surely attest to the reality that its opposite number is, in fact , very objective.

The definition of Freedom should be, then: "Something that seemed abstract and subjective...until it was gone." Possibly,( and ironically) only the slave could define what true freedom really is. And what it may truly cost.

My opinion.

reply to post by projectvxn


the "right" does not require being fought for.


when considering any true and natural principal, its truth is self-referential, and as such it requires no defense. love, beauty, sanity, and freedom all fall into this category. they are what they are. they cannot be MADE to be something. they cannot be FOUGHT for.


i am free ONLY because i say that i am free.


the first and most important lie that you have been sold is that your freedom is granted to you at cost or penalty. it is not.
__________

(note: this is probably in the wrong forum, but i have selected this forum because my thoughts are in response to this thread. apologies for the philisophical rant.)