NIBURU - Scientific methodology? ....Please?

...Somedays i just curse myself for being skeptical........ but am i mistaking being skeptical with being logical and rational?

Again, call me a skeptic HOWEVER i do believe in extra-terrestrial life, i think it would be arrogant not to when you take into account probability:-

You just have to look at the Hubble Telescope images to realise it would take a mirracle and sheer ammounts of chance for us to be the only life in the observable universe. It would be more suprising if there wasn't life out there.

Thats how i can come to reason with that belief. The very fact that i have some grounding observable data with implications. I know there are billions of galaxies, solar systems, stars out there making it more of a probability...further solidifying my beliefs.

...........But HOW do you reason with these images, artifacts sourced by amateurs/enthusiasts surrounding NIBIRU/PLANET X/10TH PLANET etc. .With no mathematics or scientific method to show where it is, how big it might be, speed of orbit or if it even orbits, studies of the light it gives off.

No one with a credible high-end telescope has recorded or commented on any data. Only people on youtube, and other unrealiably sourced articles.

No amateur astromoners, no professionals as part of a hobby or occupation have come forward and anaylsed their data with theories fitting in with these prophesies spreading around like virals at the moment.

Again, i'm encouraging someone with some know-how, an astronomer, amature, professional - anyone to pose some theories with some hard hitting evidence and some anaylsis.

I appreciate any comments on my thoughts about credibility of data and using the scientifc method to make reasonable predictions and/or theories.

If there's something i've missed, or i have a misunderstanding please let me know.

Peace out,

seek truth, knowledge and light

N.B: I have read and appreciate the work of Zacheria Sitchin but even his evidence has proved to be flawed, or mis-interpreted but nonetheless; inspiring.

[edit on 12//4/1010 by misteRee]

I'd be interested in seeing something. Maybe it's the part about spending some time understanding a subject that sets people off.

The core of the problem is that Nibiru enthusiasts never provide anything to work with. Some claim it's "hiding behind the sun." Others claim it is only visible from Antarctica. Then there are those that think that it zig-zags around at random, or is invisible. The only commonality is the claim that it exists. Whenever falsifiable information is provided, it is falsified. Thousands of people explore the sky 24/7, all over the planet. No-one who knows what they are looking at has ever claimed to have seen it (save for the hoaxers). You can't train a telescope on a belief.

A planet with that kind of proposed orbit would leave other evidence: it would certainly skew the orbits of the other planets and would sweep up huge portions of the Oort cloud and Kuyper belt amongst other things. Those who claim it coincides with a 2012 disaster fail to realize that it would be plainly visible at this point. It's a fun science fiction notion and nothing more.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I believe if it exists it is a brown dwarf and not visible to the naked eye.
Yes, this is just another youtube video, I fully realize it is not a great source of info, but you have to think if things are being kept secret, it might be our only source!

www.youtube.com...

My opinion is that LOTS of things are kept secret from us as a world. We as a group could probably make arm-length lists of the supposed things that are kept secret from all us sheep, so why not a 10th (x) planet?

As an example of what NASA does or does not know: An asteroid flew by us a couple of days ago coming within the orbit of our moon at one point. It was noticed only days before it showed up, from what I'ved read. And supposedly this happens all the time.
www.nasa.gov...
And where were all the amateur astronomers that would have obviously said something about this?

What do you think our govt is doing on all their secret and not so secret bases? That's a lot of people keeping big secrets that are not getting leaked. So, again, my point, NASA can keep a secret too. And for the amateur astronomers out there...they may not have the technology to track something still quite far away and invisible.

If you google south pole telescope and want to know all the things they are looking at down there, you will come up with a lot of nothing. So they are discovering nothing? And no one that works down there has any comments to make in the internet world?

Lot's of things are kept secret. I could go on and on.

www.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by SunnyDee
Lot's of things are kept secret. I could go on and on.

Keeping things secret does not mean it indicates a 10th planet. In fact, secrets indicate no positive evidence of anything. Secrets are a normal part of operations both in government and in the private sector.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You are correct. Secrets are not proof. But they are the possible reason there is not proof.

I'm not saying it exists, but you can't say it doesn't, just because NASA hasn't said so.

It's really arrogant of anyone to say something in our vast universe does not exist. The asteroid flyby was an example of how very little we know.
Heck, we've only just skimmed an inkling of its surface in the last 100 years of technology.

NASA doesn't have to say anything at all. There are a large numbers of amateurs out there looking at the skies. It is very clear that no planets in the sky. Nibiru would be visible to the unaided eye if it were due here around 2012. There are space agencies all over the world that look into the heavens. There is more to research than the US.

reply to post by stereologist


Yes, I know, there are several countries represented down at the south pole, and yet nothing coming from any of those countries of what they see.

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

You are correct. Secrets are not proof. But they are the possible reason there is not proof.

I'm not saying it exists, but you can't say it doesn't, just because NASA hasn't said so.

It's really arrogant of anyone to say something in our vast universe does not exist. The asteroid flyby was an example of how very little we know.
Heck, we've only just skimmed an inkling of its surface in the last 100 years of technology.

Secrets alone could not conceal a planet such as the proposed Nibiru. As I had stated previously, evidence of it would be easily detectable.

I can say it doesn't exist, confidently, because of the profound lack of evidence. This is not arrogance. It's also nobody's burden to disprove a claim that it does.

reply to post by SunnyDee


It's not that there are many countries down there. The objects would be visible from many places in the southern hemisphere. The reason nothing is coming from anywhere in the southern hemisphere is because there is nothing to report. Even then the presence of a new planet would cause perturbations in the motions of the known planets and that isnn't observed either.

reply to post by stereologist


Well there were supposed perturbations of Neptune and Uranus around 1983 that lead to the possible discovery of a 10th planet only to be discredited within months as incorrect, case shut.Could be perturbations now and we're just not told.

Was not Jupiter hit by something the size of Earth in the last year and no one saw it coming or noticed any perturbations?

Just saying...lots of discrepancies, lots we think we know then we don't.

My point of other countries down south is they keep secrets too.

reply to post by misteRee


People blamed recent Earthquakes on the approach of this phantom planet. It's actually a fairly old belief, the idea that a planet or second sun, is acting on our Solar System and pseudoscientists around the world are boosted by the fact that there does appear to be phantom gravity acting on our solar system.

But if Nibiru existed we would have seen it and scientists would be admitting it. There is some belief that its being "covered up" but WHY? Why cover up what is potentially the most exciting discovery of the century? And if this planet was going to be a threat to our own they would be more likely to tell us and even less likely to cover it up.

I'm with you misteRee and I'll remain skeptical unless I see some actual proof of this planet that is backed by legitimate science.

reply to post by SunnyDee


Jupiter was hit by a comet and loads of people were watching it happen. It was all over the news and amateur astronomers watched it happen.

Lots of discrepancies? I'll look into the matter of your 1983 claims as well. But discrepancies no.

I have already pointed out studies that show that no planets could be within 340AU (39 to Pluto) of the sun without us having detected it. So no Nibiru.

reply to post by stereologist

Stereo,
NASA didn't see it happen, show me where amateur astronomers saw a comet hit Jupiter last July. Please check your facts.

tScientists have found evidence that another object has bombarded Jupiter, exactly 15 years after the first impacts by the comet Shoemaker-Levy 9.

Following up on a tip by an amateur astronomer, Anthony Wesley of Australia, that a new dark "scar" had suddenly appeared on Jupiter, this morning between 3 and 9 a.m. PDT (6 a.m. and noon EDT) scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., using NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility at the summit of Mauna Kea, Hawaii, gathered evidence indicating an impact.

www.jpl.nasa.gov...

[edit on 13-4-2010 by SunnyDee]

You're right. I read too fast. I was thinking of the Shoemaker comet.

I also passed on the size issue. The 'scar' on Jupiter was large with Shoemaker. It was earth-sized, but did not mean an earth sized object hit. That was what I was thinking about when I skimmed over your post.

So the response to your claim that an earth sized object hit Jupiter last year is simply that the size of object claim is wrong.

reply to post by SunnyDee


I guess you could say anything/everything is possible, but not everything is probable.....

i could say that Earth is going to explode tommorow but the burden of proof is on me to provide the means or theory as to how i came to such a conclusion.

Something like Nibiru is inprobable and its also unfalsifiable (that does not mean it's not possible)- it cannot be confirmed because we have had no observable data that can be consistently observed d in order to make such a definitive prediction.

I really tire of people telling me that the burden of proof is on ME to DISPROVE it. It's just totally illogical and a waste of time. Science would be no where if it wern't for the burden of proof, scientific methodology and theory.

Any comments, or opnions appreciated


[edit on 13//4/1010 by misteRee]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

You are correct. Secrets are not proof. But they are the possible reason there is not proof.

I'm not saying it exists, but you can't say it doesn't, just because NASA hasn't said so.

It's really arrogant of anyone to say something in our vast universe does not exist. The asteroid flyby was an example of how very little we know.
Heck, we've only just skimmed an inkling of its surface in the last 100 years of technology.

Secrets alone could not conceal a planet such as the proposed Nibiru. As I had stated previously, evidence of it would be easily detectable.

I can say it doesn't exist, confidently, because of the profound lack of evidence. This is not arrogance. It's also nobody's burden to disprove a claim that it does.

Thanks, i appreciate your words and i whole-heartedly agree with you.

reply to post by misteRee


Why did you even start this thread then? We all know there is no conclusive scientific proof of Nibiru so why even start this thread. Just wanted a little attention?


I think Jupiter being hit by something the size of earth without a sign of it occuring before or after impact is enough proof for me to know that our scientists don't know much at all of whats happening up there in the stars, and maybe some old indians and tribesmen knew a little better, they tried to tell us in their language, but I know that is not proof enough for most, actually not even me, but it leaves the theory open, until proven otherwise.

Actually the more I think about it, the more the Jupiter thing is one of the biggest arguements and PROOF that anything is possible, even Nibiru.