Poland's Leaders Move to Weaken Currency, Then Die in Plane Crash

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by timewalker
in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others.

Fair enough, the Polish president and party were not a part of the EU progression and the EU and other member states would have liked to see a more EuroCentric administration but killing scores of people? Very doubtful..

If that was the case, why isn't Klaus the Czech President dead? He's one of the biggest outspoken critics and blockers of EU integration..

Also, the Polish president had recently created warmer relations with Russia which is extremely beneficial to the EU as Poland was one of the main blockers of EU Russia relations..

To create the illusion of opposition so that it does not appear one-sided or staged. This is the same reason for a two-party system even though they both play for the same team.

~Namaste

[edit on 11-4-2010 by SonOfTheLawOfOne]

Originally posted by time91
I don't know if it was actually one of the eurozone countries, but with everyones economy still on the downside Poland presented a risk. If they devalued and managed to make money on their exports and get a strong economy going then other countries might follow suit.

You do have a point and its good logic, however, Poland would not have been the first to devalue so it kind of kills that idea. Also, the Polish economy is extremely important to that area of the EU as it is a shining light of the 2004 entrants to the Union so it probably would have been advised by the EU to devalue in order to keep their economy purring anyway..

Obviously none of us can say for sure but I don't see the logic.. the timing is amazing though..

reply to post by Dermo


While they have allowed many other countries to devalue their currency in the past economic times are now on the edge of desperate. You know the saying, 'desperate times call for desperate measures'.
If the EU really falls apart then it will set back the goal of a global economy/government for a long time(because there would be a lack of faith in unions). That is unless they collapse every market on earth simultaneously and then offer an incredible solution for the world economy, probably through the world bank. But wouldn't be a relatively safe bet to make, so I'm guessing they will try to keep the smaller unions together and then combine them at some point in the future.

As a Pole I really like when Poland gets attention on this forum but in this particular situation what was said in this thread sounds completely no logic. Such decisions like lower or rise value of our currency in our economic reality is nothing strange. This decisions are taken quite often because our currency likes to change value quite rapidly. Its not so stable as Euro or Dollar. This decisions in the past have usually nothing in common with politics of the county and the death of the President od National Bank wouldn't change this technical decisions. If we speak about introducing Euro in Poland there is long discussion but everybody lost hope that it is real discussion nor just political maneuvers to gain attention on something which doesn't appear to Poles as important matter. Introducing Euro isn't primal goal of this or previous governments however they all like to talk allot about this from time to time.

This tragedy with death of such many our important politicians surly would change allot in Pollard but not in the way you think. Mos of the victims wasn't active players. They have fore sure great authority but they were associated with present parliamentary opposition which no view to win next election in future so this would change nothing to our present politics. It's important to understand because many people outside Poland think that this tragedy has ruined the top of our present leadership. The real power and decisions are in hands of prime minister and government which were not harmed in accident.

The next myth about possibilities of changing curse of our foreign politics is that Lech Kaczynski was anti-russian and Donald Tusk (prime minister) is pro-russian. They only aper in media to be such but in fact our foreign politics is much more stable. We have well defined curse of our politics in Russian affairs and there is very little differences between all present parties so I would not be surprised that after shaking hands with Puttin today the tomorrow would be same # like before that tragedy and same unsolved problems however today we have spectacular acts of sympathy between Russia and Poland.

Of course it is important to give and get some acts of sympathy. There was huge tragedy and we can't hate each other indefinitely because we simply have to much deals to be made, to much common cases, and to much common history. Poland and Russia can't just tell each other that we don't talk to each other because we don't like you and take some silent days in our relations. Its a bit like in the family in fact. We know about ourselves much more than people from the street, we know our dirty secrets and have better understanding of out characters. We instantly know when the other side is lying because in fact if you take usual Pole and Russian we are pretty the same. It's our biggest problem

An interesting addition to the crash investigation. Maybe the pilot did not want to feel the pressure from the president like this guy.

In August 2008, during Russia’s brief war with Georgia, Mr. Kaczynski got into a dispute with a pilot flying his plane to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, according to reports at the time. Mr. Kaczynski demanded that the pilot land despite dangerous conditions, but the pilot disagreed and diverted to neighboring Azerbaijan.

Mr. Kaczynski threatened that there would be consequences for the pilot, the Polish newspaper Dziennik reported. “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful,” Mr. Kaczynski said. “After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.”

That pilot was not disciplined and received a medal for his service. But the defense minister later said that the pilot had suffered depression in the wake of the incident.

NYTimes

I think I would trust my pilot and not let my ego get in the way.

I was going to write that there is nobody to blame for this accident but the pilot, no conspiracy, and no assasination. However, I found this a little strange.

Another detail at which Bielecki pointed out is that Kaczyński’s plane was not on track for landing.

"The plane was found at 400 meters from the runway, but at seventy meters on the side. It was off-track. Even it had not hit a tree, it would have crashed,"

The Russian press wrote that the Polish presidential plane, which was buil in 1990, was recently modernized by the Russian company Aviakor in the city of Samara

www.euractiv.com...



Interesting that the plane was "Modernized" by Russia company Aviakor.

Aviakor is a Joint Stock Company that involves two or more legel persons. Meaning Elite could buy major stocks in the company or anyone for that matter.

Aviakor is owned by Oleg Vladimirovich Deripaska who is rated in the top 100 billionaires by Forbes. Oleg's visa has been refused multiple times by the FBI due to Allegations of Organized crime.

So the plane that went down with the Poland President was worked on by a private company that could have multiple major stock holders. Major stock holders of companies have a lot of say in what the company does and could have a lot of pull in other, let's say, agendas within that company. The owner of the company that "upgraded" the presidents plane has been flagged by the United States FBI and deemed unfit to enter the states.

Hmm... pilot error.

This documentary exposes how the CIA have been behind the "plane crashes" of several presidents

www.linktv.org...

In an assassination you want it to look like an accident and not an assassination. Like one person saying why didn't they take it out over the ocean or body of water. It would be harder to say that it may be from pilot error and/or weather conditions. The only possible answer would be mechanical or a bomb, and most would say bomb. By having it go down where it did, pilot error which has been batted around could be the problem and foggy conditions also. The secret is not to make it look like an assassination, because if it was a bomb then eventually somebody or group will figure out what direction the attack came from.

Also important things ...

He was planning a gas-oil pipeline, killing the russian european monopoly

He was also pushing for Ukraine and Georgia to be become NATO members

The missile shield was also starting to be deployed this month

Also :

Poland urges Russia to reveal all on WWII massacre

Also :
Poland refuses IMF money, aka IMF take over of their economy

Also :
Poland refuses Swine Flu Vaccine

I'm pretty sure the Polish government was assassinated. By who?

The globalists and Russia had all the motives... who did it... we'll probably never know.

Poland refused to accept IMF loan they "generously" provided. John Perkins was right - don't mess with IMF and World Bank. This is really good work, because everyone thinks it was Russians and not International Banks.

Originally posted by stumason
I think it is far more likely that, despite calls to upgrade their Presidential jet which were ignored, they died after Pilot error in a plane over 20 years old which has a questinable safety record at the best of times.

This weakness could have been the angle, the oppotunity. Do you think that all of the South / Latin American leaders who have died in crashes over the past couple-few decades would have died quietly if they were flying in a new Boeing? Or rather, would they have been crashed if they were in newer Boeing's (under the assumption that most of them were murdered)?

reply to post by odyseusz


Interesting take on the matter!

I can't help but wonder, and don't want to derail the thread, but has Russia ever formally apologized for its tyrannical history in Poland (or anywhere else for that matter)?

rather interesting that this morning, first thing, someone comes out defending the strength of the Zloty off the bat.... who was that someone?? JP Morgan:

*POLISH ZLOTY WILL STRENGTHEN IN `MEDIUM TERM,' JPMORGAN SAYS
*ZLOTY REMAINS `UNDERVALUED' ON GROWTH PROSPECTS, JPMORGAN SAYS
(from Bberg)

Ya know, when I first heard about this, the first thing I thought was "conspiracy". The president of a nation, along with a large portion of the top echelon of government are killed in a plane crash... must be an assassination.

After actually sitting back and thinking about it however, I realised that there were no real reasons to assassinate these people. As previously stated, there have been many outspoken people against the EU (about 75% of British citizens for a start ) and lets face it, Poland don't really have world changing influnce do they?

No my friend, I believe you are suffering, much like myself from ATS overload and seeing conspiracies all over the place. Not neccessarily a bad thing, as it proves that you are staying alert to the possibilities, but you need employ a filter of logic.

Nice theory though

[edit on 12-4-2010 by nik1halo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also important things ...

He was planning a gas-oil pipeline, killing the russian european monopoly

This pipeline would be build no matter of politics because it would be private investment. We have big refinery in Lithuania. We could transport that oil by ships and we are doing it now. It's not a controversial nor spectacular. There is other pipeline which brings more political consequences Odessa-Brody but it is long long story with no dynamic actions.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
He was also pushing for Ukraine and Georgia to be become NATO members

After Georgian war and election in Ukraine this arguments lost their meaning. Now it doesn't depend on polish president attempts. We made for them what we could but our measures are now exhausted so president could do nothing more.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The missile shield was also starting to be deployed this month

If you have read this article you linked you probably had noticed that it was about Donald Tusk not Lech Kaczynski. It doesn't depend on presidents opinion. Pleas understand that.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also :

Poland urges Russia to reveal all on WWII massacre

So what? This massacre would hide the problem? You must be joking. Thanks to that all world is now talking about this. It was not the intentions of Russians fore sure or maybe you are trying to convince me that it was a suicide to bring more attention by Poles to that matter. lol

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also :
Poland refuses IMF money, aka IMF take over of their economy

And what is so special in such information? We have never any intention to use this money. This was only the security measure to prevent us for speculation but situation appear to by much stable than expected so we resign of this economic tool because it gives positive sign for foreign investors if government claim that we are stable enough to dill with our economy without help. I don't see where is the dead body hidden in this case.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also :
Poland refuses Swine Flu Vaccine

Yea. And this was decision of health minister. She doesn't fly this plane anyway. You miss every shot. But there is some interesting thing however. There was on board Spokesman for civil rights. It is national institution. He died there and he was the biggest screamer that we have to buy this sine flu vaccine. He even report to the prosecution on our health minister that she didn't do this. We had discussed that on that forum. He was definitely pushed by the lobby of the concerns but his attempts was unsuccessful. They killed his own man with the had of a country and all this people? Why, only because he was unsuccessful? Silly.
Now you understand?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
I'm pretty sure the Polish government was assassinated. By who?

The globalists and Russia had all the motives... who did it... we'll probably never know.

I'm pretty sure that Polish government wasn't assassinated. I saw yesterday our prime minister and the members of our government. They are alive and healthy You have some wrong informations hehe. Our president is not the head of the government. There is some sort of language misunderstanding in many western comments. Many presidents are heads of their governments. For example in US and France. We have different system. Close to that in Germany or Italy where had of the county is prime minister and president have no real power however our president Lech Kaczynski had very strong character and he was very clever how to use his little power to get attention on his person so our government had to reckon with him.



[edit on 12-4-2010 by odyseusz]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by odyseusz

 

Interesting take on the matter!

I can't help but wonder, and don't want to derail the thread, but has Russia ever formally apologized for its tyrannical history in Poland (or anywhere else for that matter)?

No they haven't. There was no such words "We Russian nation apologize you people of Poland for our crime". Instead of that there was a words "we understand your pain, and we doesn't deny that massacre in Karyn made by Stalin was a unbelievable crime"

I partially could understand that difference. For Poles Katyn is a place of Russian barbarian crime against polish nation but for Russian it is the place of crime mad by communist on Poles and also Russians.

Its a bit complicated as you can see. After this shock I have thought about many things again and now I have understand that as a Poles we had mistakable expected that our goal in that case is that we have to win for all cost and that win would be when we write the text of Russian apology and force their president to reed that kneeling in front of our president and show this picture to the rest of the world.

It's not surprising that Russian didn't wan to apologize us in such condition. Shame that we need such tragedy to understand our points of view.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by odyseusz]

Originally posted by nik1halo
Ya know, when I first heard about this, the first thing I thought was "conspiracy". The president of a nation, along with a large portion of the top echelon of government are killed in a plane crash... must be an assassination.

As I had said president is not the head of the government and real echelon of government wasn't harmed. I hope that you people have finally understand that. I know that it is conspiracy forum but if you want to get some clues you have to base on facts not fiction. I know that such speculation sounds more colorful but we have reality which doesn't support your scenario.

Sometimes I have feeling that you are not interested in looking fore information that other could give you here but only for spectacular fantastic bu||sh|t of imagination. It's harming me as a Pole that your curiosity in that particular matter is so shallow and so many people prefer to listen a fictional story instead of learning something.

[edit on 12-4-2010 by odyseusz]

reply to post by odyseusz


Please do not misquote me by paraphrasing my statements.

I added after the part that you quoted:

After actually sitting back and thinking about it however, I realised that there were no real reasons to assassinate these people.

So you're basically having a go at me for not thinking and doing my research, when I clearly stated that I have done so. I realise perfectly well enough that the people who died were not really important enough to assissinate.

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post, or did you just dive in there after reading the first paragraph? My viewpoint is the same as yours, that there is no conspiracy here.


[edit on 12-4-2010 by nik1halo]

Sorry, maybe this was emotions but I had read entire thread once more and was frustrated because of whole view of people awareness not especial your. It wasn't my intention to put all my angers on your had.

reply to post by odyseusz


Apology accepted

I can understand your frustrations.