A conspiracy in religion?

Hello folks.

It has come to my attention recently that the religious forums are too quiet. By this I mean, we don't have enough religious folks trying to refute the claims about the Catholic church, the Anglican church and the other religions currently committing atrocities etc.

WHERE HAVE THEY ALL GONE?

It used to be the case on here that if we dared criticise a religion, or the actions of religious individuals, there would be a plethora of scripture quotations, insults, ad-hominem attacks and general nastiness.

Now, I understand that the admin team on here have cracked down on unpleasant behaviour - but can this account for the massive reduction in blind religious fervor?

Are we seeing a shift away from blind religious conviction, into a more intelligent religious community?

Or is there something more sinister at work here?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We see lots of threads attacking Catholicism, but where are all the child abuse allegations about the Anglican 'Protestant' Church? Where are all the threads about mass-murder and 'theistic-cleansing' being perpetrated by Christians and Muslims against each other in Indonesia? Where are all the threads about the continuing Shia vs Sunni killings and nastiness in the middle east? What about the Hindu vs Islamist tensions in Northern and central India?

In my view, the MSM, and other entities are mounting a sustained attack on the Catholic church. The only theory I have at the moment is that the 'Judeo-Anglican' controlled media world is on an offensive to recoup more members to their faiths, at the cost of Catholicism - given the current happenings.

Could we read this as a 'war of souls'? Perhaps this is one of the best indications yet that religion is just a method of control by the elite?

Parallex.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Parallex]

well it seems no one else cares about that crap anymore, but you, the person who detests religion the most, is always eager to find its deficencies, and its of such importance to you that you've written up this top (and many others) on this issue and ur picture up there is about religion as well. if u shun it so much, why not ignore it and let it be? why are u changing others or commenting on them, worry about urself man

reply to post by butcherbob


Whilst I agree that religion is becoming increasingly irrelevant, I think it is important to recognise and understand global shifts in religious power. This sort of things affects us all, especially given that religion is used as an excuse for bigotry and all sorts of other things.

The Catholic church is a hugely powerful and wealthy organisation - if it becomes embroiled in a 'war of souls' across the globe, things could get nasty like they have done in Indonesia.

Try to discuss the topic and not me Bob. The admins take a dim view of that angle. Also, I like your shiny new profile by the way. Been here long?

Parallex.

Originally posted by Parallex


WHERE HAVE THEY ALL GONE?

It used to be the case on here that if we dared criticise a religion, or the actions of religious individuals, there would be a plethora of scripture quotations, insults, ad-hominem attacks and general nastiness.

So, if I understand you correctly...

Christians are in the wrong if they react to criticism of religion
And
Christians are in the wrong if they don't react to criticism of religion, because it is the symptom of something sinister.

Ah, the old "double-bind" ploy. There's no way out of it, is there?

This is not ad hominem, just reflecting on a philosophical dilemma.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


I think that part of my opener is more about whether or not the reduction in the 'contributions' that are nothing but conviction is because of admin action, or because religious folks are feeling 'groundless' in their faith - given that religion is fast becoming associated with child abuse, self-interested politics and of course, ethnic violence.

I wouldn't want to be a religious person at the moment - there's that much anti-religious vitriol around.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


Fair enough. I can't speak for those who got engaged in "general nastiness", because I don't think I ever did.

Those who tried to defend the church in a more reasoned way may yet be coming forward again if criticisms are put up. If there is nothing put up for them to refute- well, obviously they're not going to be doing any refuting.

Speaking for myself- which is all I can do- my own faith doesn't feel any more groundless.

Your first post almost hinted at the idea that religious people must have received instructions to stay away. I gather this is not what you meant.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Excellent observations. Fair play to you for being an individual and not buying into the fundamentalist crap.

Do you think there is a conspiracy against Catholicism at the moment? With the big winners being the Protestant church perhaps?

Parallex.

Christians PRAY. That is what we do. Prayer is not about mindless recitation. It is about communing with, spending time with, the Spirit of the Living God.

Many Christians, Catholic,Anglican,Orthodox, Independent or Free, will be praying about the current Vatican crisis. We understand that the enemies of God delight in causing mayhem. We understand that whatever the Truth about this crisis, the enemies of God have infiltrated all of the mass appeal, global influence organisations, including Catholicism. We understand that the hidden agenda of the enemies of God is to destroy innocence, joy, love, happiness and to reduce humanity to scourge.

Those who rejoice when they learn of sex scandals within religious communities are absorbing the knowledge and understanding that the enemies of God want them to absorb and are being deceived.

The battle for souls? You speak closer to the Truth than you know.

Originally posted by teapot
Christians PRAY. That is what we do. Prayer is not about mindless recitation. It is about communing with, spending time with, the Spirit of the Living God.

So you get a provable response then? A text message? Hand-written letter from the GOD department?

Many Christians, Catholic,Anglican,Orthodox, Independent or Free, will be praying about the current Vatican crisis. We understand that the enemies of God delight in causing mayhem. We understand that whatever the Truth about this crisis, the enemies of God have infiltrated all of the mass appeal, global influence organisations, including Catholicism. We understand that the hidden agenda of the enemies of God is to destroy innocence, joy, love, happiness and to reduce humanity to scourge.

Nice - some interesting implications there. Swap 'enemies of god' with 'Atheists' and you have some nice ad-hom's in there. I don't think you're actually talking about enemies of god as such, you're talking about enemies of decent humanity. No need for the God 'complex' to be applied.

Those who rejoice when they learn of sex scandals within religious communities are absorbing the knowledge and understanding that the enemies of God want them to absorb and are being deceived.

Anyone who rejoices about 'child-buggery' by Christian priests are sick individuals. Are you saying that absorbing this information as the total and indefatigable truth is a 'deception'? Really?

The battle for souls? You speak closer to the Truth than you know.

Not in the spiritual sense anyway... a soul is a construct built by the religious community.

As usual, you haven't addressed the question properly - is there a conspiracy by the Anglican church and others against the Catholic Church?

Parallex.

Hello paralex. This post will be my debute here as I have been hanging out here for the past few months without registering. thanks for persuading me with your topic.

First off please dont comment on my grammor since that is the very least of my focus here.

I thought it kinda funny that you should mention less activity from the passionate believers among us... I count myself as being one of those people. altough Im not catholic or part of any other mainstream religion, you could add me to the list of extreme fundamentalists, this offcourse gives me a special set off glasses to filter the things I find interresting. I have my own opinion about pretty much all of the subjects discussed here at ATS and frankly it surprises me partly that there arent many likeminded (to me) people posting here. Most of the subjects posted here actually support a whole lot of things mentioned in this 2000 year old book wich I presume you dont find very valuable.
Also I am not in the least bit offended by all those negative remarks about all the different religions since I share the views of most of the posters here at ATS (so does the bible BTW).
All this negativity pointed at our established religious institutions has been foretold long ago by the same bible those nutcases use to persuade the masses.

Well rigth now I totally forgot the thing I wanted to share.. shoot :S

I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say religion is a way for the elite to control the masses. But I think it is even more important to note that the bible (the most important and misused tool) holds tons of info wich is ATS headlines worthy. The biggest problem with this subject is that most posters use, quote's from research OTHER people did, link the activity's shown by the vast amount of churches to what the bible teaches and/or take specific interpretations about subjects used by those churches to criticize the bible and its message. None of the above actually represents the bible acurately.
My own experience can be used as an example. I have been taught (guilty) by others how to interpret the bible as well... but my interpretation gives me a completely different view on things happening and things to come than what has been portrayed around here.
I'd like to invite anyone to challenge me on any subject possible and I will try to give my point of view backed with quote's from the bible if necesary...
Im kinda curious how many people would actually want to do try this if there are any at all but hey... I love a good discussion and the sharing of different viewpoints...


Well.... be nice to this (not completely) newbie

I just want to add that I find the views given on this site an example of people trying alot harder than average to give educated remarks... the main reason for wanting to join..


[edit on 11-4-2010 by faceoff85]

reply to post by faceoff85


Welcome Faceoff - glad to have you here.

I'm very 'militant' in my language, but if someone takes the time and grace to respond to that language in a polite and constructive manner like you have, that always garners my respect.

I've never read the Bible. The REAL bible anway - most Christians haven't. The real bible only exists in small sections now, and those are kept under lock and key by the Vatican and others - much of it is considered as heresy.

That's why I don't believe anything that Christians say - it's all based on concepts that are politicised lies.

What's your take on my subject matter - do you think the Anglican church and others are part of a conspiracy to weaken the Catholic Church?

Parallex.

people are growing up, they learn to see a difference between a group
consciousness and a personal one..

is the church guilty then ? its an institute, institutes dont have a brain.
they are symbolic of many brains together, but do NOT replace those brains.
And personal responsibility is something where all of us fail.

Yes people do wrong stuff, the question is,
could they have done anything better at the time they were doing it ?

Could you ? were you ever blamed ?
can you change it going back in time,
or by changing your views of that time,
and improving the future ?

The institutions need help to see back
the light they preach, forgiveness and care.
They went wrong in care, so they can forgive
other that went wrong in care, this is the
"eye-for-eye" of the bible, that releases judgement,
and brings mercy. Because of their own guilt they can grow in their care
for all people, not only the false selection they made before.
God is there for every person, Truth is there for everyone.

If after the lesson the lesson is not learnt,
to find mercy for all because they went wrong theirselves,
then they destroy their own meaning,
which was based on the love for god, which is ALL.


[edit on 11-4-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Hi there

I would like to think that the decrease of verbal assalt regarding posts that attack the Church are due to the maturing audience realizing that even though there may be termoil within certain sects, churches or denominations that this does not have a direct effect on each Christian as not all are involved in such.

It is the same as likening every American under the same umbrella because a few choose to go against the norm. Or to say that all White South Africans are racisit because their ancestors lived in the time of Aparthied.

In so saying most christians value love and peace and cannot be compared or even linked to apparent vatican issues or general church issues. We carry our faith in our hearts.

For all the above reasons retaliating would be pointless.

This is only my opinion

God Bless.

reply to post by Parallex


The enemies of God operate within the spiritual realms and the growth of atheism is a testament to their understanding of the nature of Man. The enemies of God have infiltrated ALL organisations that have global influence.

No, I do not believe that the Protestant Church are conspiring against Catholicism. I think the PTB/NWO/agents of darkness who seek to control humanity are conspiring against God and are having a huge amount of success. Even the educated western atheist thinks they are free-thinking and not media controlled. Righteous indignation at the abuse of the innocent is an emotional response that the PTB/enemies of God understand only too well. They know that the unbeliever will focus that emotion on the perceived perpetrators, ie the individuals who carried out the crime/s, that the natural disgust will be channelled into the growing disdain for all those who have faith in the God of the Bible. Even here at ATS, where there are more free thinking, questioning individuals than I have experienced in my life amoungst the general population, there are few denying the right of other faiths to express themselves.

I am not one of those Christians who quote endlessly from the Bible, even I find pages of Bible text off-putting and I am a mature Christian who sought and found and was not indoctrinated into any religion. And my advice to all unbelievers is this; God is real and if you are not for Him, you are against Him.

reply to post by Parallex


Firstly let me point out my opinion will be formed with the bible as my main source.
The bible speaks about alot of dividing within the different religions and their own interpretations so in that light I can completely agree with you... as for those churches using MSM as their tool to accomplish this there hasn't been alot of evidence but it is very possible...
However I find it alot more presumable that TPTB are behind this conspiracy and I find their goal to be the total destruction of religion as a whole. This has also been prophecyzed by the bible to be the very last thing to happen before the widely known day of Harmagedon.. For one TPTB are very capable of influencing the MSM. My parents used to tell me that the UN has legislations signed and ready to be implemented... for a source i'd have to go digg around but I am convinced this is true.
As for churches destroying eachother.... I dont think they need to... humans will bring to light the wrongdoings of churches to light without different churches meddling..... all that is needed is to sit back and watch the news... but still it is very possible they are scr***g each other over.

The Vatican has to much power as of now... so to be able to make the world accept the desctruction of religion as a whole it is necesary for TPTB to make us humans see religion as something dangerous... this imagebuilding is taking place as we speak and its coming along quite nicely. Muslims are terorists, christians are pedophiles and warmongerers.... im just curious as to how the other mainstream religions are going to be branded as "bad for our health"

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

Excellent observations. Fair play to you for being an individual and not buying into the fundamentalist crap.

Do you think there is a conspiracy against Catholicism at the moment? With the big winners being the Protestant church perhaps?

Parallex.

I've been busy updating a thread of my own, and I've only just seen this question.

I don't know a full answer, but a couple of preliminary observations for the debate.

1- The campaign was actually driven, in the first instance, by victims in Ireland and their supporters. This possibly either hints at a location of a conspiracy or indicates innocence of conspiracy.

2- I find it very difficult to believe that Protestant churches in Europe have enough muscle, even behind the scenes, to be driving media campaigns. In the States, things may be different. I would have thought that any anti-Catholic animosity in the media on the European side of the Atlantic would be secularist-driven.

PS In support of this last remark, another thread has just published an announcement by Richard Dawkins.



[edit on 11-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by Parallex


S&F, because if you don't talk about it, it goes away. they aren't going to speak ill of the church, because these terrible occurances are so very rare!

lol, i'm not one for sarcasm, but there is always a place for it i guess.

while i hate religion and all, just sort of ruffles my feathers for some reason; i know religion in itself is a good thing. i just have a problem with christianity in america. omitting science from their ideas of the world when the only thing in their lives that isn't science is their almighty bible (not all of course, but every one i ever have had a debate with, you can always push it out of them that bible > science) eek thats enough of a rant,


[i'm actually rather open christians, haha, just have never had any connection to religion all my life, probably messed me up some when it comes to unbiased debate.]


[edit on 11-4-2010 by tektek2012]

Some interesting responses here folks. I think this thread is testament to my point however - the sheer lack of religious folks coming out of the woodwork suggests something is up. I'm quite frankly astounded that there aren't more people chiming in on this one.

Parallex.