JP II prevented then-Cardinal Ratzinger from prosecuting molesting priests

I've said before and I'll keep saying it until it gets through your thick skulls.

Pope Benedict XVI is conducting an all out war against pedophiles and sex abusers in the Church, Pope John Paul II is the one who let all of the abuse happen on his watch and facilitated the cover ups.

JPII: Under the Bus

I guess no one can say the hierarchy is not taking the threat of scandal seriously anymore. In an interview yesterday, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn of Vienna, spoke about the desire of many to have a full-scale investigation of charges leveled against his predecessor Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer. He said that then-Cardinal raztinger supported the investigation but others counseled against it. He had this to say about Pope Benedict’s commitment to rooting out the scourge of clergy sex abuse. “I can still very clearly remember the moment when Cardinal Ratzinger sadly told me that the other camp had asserted itself.” There was no investigation.

Did he just throw Pope John Paul II under the bus? Yes, he did.

Like the case against Groer, the case against the founder of the Legionnaires of Christ, Father Maciel, was urged by Ratzinger but stymied by “the apartment,” as the Pope and his entourage are known. John Paul II certainly remembered that in Poland, the communist authorities had used slanderous campaigns to discredit prelates, but communist authorities were not behind the charges against Groer or Maciel. Those fighting any action against these prominent prelates were other prominent prelates. The fact that John Paul II listened to such horrendous advice is an indelible mark on his legacy. Santo? Perhaps. Subito? Probably not.

National Catholic Reporter

Pope Benedict has been fighting all out to get rid of the pedophiles in the Church since he came into office. Don't believe me, read some of these threads and learn the truth:


Prelate: Church Has No Hiding Place for Pedophiles

The Myth of Pedophile Priests

Catholic Church Sex Scandal & Celibacy

The Church's Strict Patrol Against Pedophilia


If you want to beat up on the pope for allowing the sex abuse and the cover-ups in the Church, fine.

Just make sure you're beating up on the pope who was actually responsible for the crimes!



[edit on 4/9/10 by FortAnthem]

FortAnthem, thanks for taking this up. Even as an Anglican, I'll defend Ratzinger because he is the real deal. This propaganda blitzkrieg against him has all the ear marks of a deliberate diversionary tactic (much like the Jefferson/slave girl hoax).

Of course, I've come to expect outrageous attacks on Christ, his church and his followers every Easter season -- and this fall into that pattern if nothing else.

Well, let them take thier cheap shots say I. "Surely they have their reward."

And this is a pretty pathetic reward at that.

wow, looks like jp's sainthood's been roadblocked ... regardless of how this all pans out.

Originally posted by Hadrian
wow, looks like jp's sainthood's been roadblocked ... regardless of how this all pans out.

If he made a good deathbed confession, he can still get into heaven.

He's still got to suffer a long time in purgatory for all of his sins. Also remember, a pope is held responsible before God not only for his own sins but also for the sins caused by the way in which he ran the Church.


JP II is gonna be in purgatory for a long, long time.


Edit to add: You're not a saint until you cross through those pearly gates.

[edit on 4/9/10 by FortAnthem]

yeah, well, i was just referring to a perceived attempt to speed up the process, not too dissimilar to that of mother teresa or the right's attempt to deify a presidential joke like ronald reagan by naming stuff after him left and right and trying to put him on money.

if people can make it look like they won and if they write the history books, then they do win.

Originally posted by Hadrian
yeah, well, i was just referring to a perceived attempt to speed up the process, not too dissimilar to that of mother teresa or the right's attempt to deify a presidential joke like ronald reagan by naming stuff after him left and right and trying to put him on money.

if people can make it look like they won and if they write the history books, then they do win.

Yeah, JP II still has quite a following thanks to a fawning MSM. Just goes to show he was a tool of TPTB. Benidict XVI must be rocking the boat too much with his return to orthodoxy and stuff. The MSM really has it out for him bad recently.

JP II was also a lot more photogenic. Poor Benedict XVI looks too much like emperor Palpatine to elicit much sympathy from the brain washed masses.

Yeah, thats what happened. Instead of going to the papers about how JP2
was allowing such behaviors, or through various sources, letting a story leak out, Ratzinger politely asked and was rebuffed as to whether he could expose peds in the church. maybe it went something like this:

POPE JP2: Yes Bishop? what have you today?

RAT: OMG! I have heard the most strangest roumors, its unholy and unheard of, but dare I say?

POPE JP2: I can dig it father...what has disturbed you so?

RAT: a priest has molested children father.

POPE: and....?

RAT: I cant be part of an institution that allows such things. I'll expose you!

POPE: could you wait till im dead first and yer the pope?

RAT: ok. deal, by the way youre in line to be a saint...

Yeah, I dont think this problem started with Jean, or will end with whatever filth resides there today. The church is corrupt, top to bottom, aswell as any organisation which defines itself by the power it wields.

I totally disagree. The current pope has been in power for a while now. Ample time to punish or at least re-investigate of these priests who he knew from his previous role as chief investigator were paedophiles.

If he was the victim of a cover-up, then when he became pope, he could simply have re-opened these investigations. No, these cases aren't coming to light as a result of Ratzinger championing the victims - but as a result of the press.

None of us on this site really know what happened. But to paint Ratzinger as some kind of impotent figure shackled by his previous superiors is vastly over-simplifying a very serious matter.

John

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Millions]

The entire premise of this thread is quite literally undone by this Breaking News thread:

Pope Benedict hit by new church child abuse allegations

Extract from the OP article:



Trying to unload the culpability onto the back of a dead Pope is both disingenuous and dangerous, in that it seeks to defer attention from very real evidence that the current Pope was as complicit in allowing a pedophile to remain in office.

The evidence that has only just come to light in the media is as follows:



Prioritizing the reputation of the RC church over and above the protection of vulnerable children says it all. Ratzinger alone has to answer for this.



reply to post by joeofthemountain

Of course, I've come to expect outrageous attacks on Christ, his church and his followers every Easter season - and this fall into that pattern if nothing else.

This is nothing of the sort.

I have laid out what I believe is the Christian attitude to this news in the other thread. Christ is only dishonored by the way the RC church has handled and hidden the extensive sexual abuse of children within the ranks of its hierarchy, decade after decade. And countless children have had their lives ruined because their guardians entrusted them into the hands of RC clergy who either personally took advantage of that trust, or failed to report the same to the authorities.

I have to admit, that appearing to pour all blame on the previous popes so the current one can pretend he was on the ball is in my opinion more dangerous than owning up and sorting out the mess the church is in.

As a catholic I've expected a lot of ducking and diving on the issue, but to point the finger at JP2 dumb founds me.. he may have been as complict as every other pope on the issue, but that does not let the current pope off the hook, in fact taking that route makes him look more like a weasle in my eyes.

Oh yeah, let's blame the dead for what the living have done, and may I add: Is doing!! Ratzinger did what he did. Period. But the problem with this whole discussion is not what this and that pope did, it is the office of the pope and his elevated position which in reality is not the office of a monarch, but that of a dictator.

[edit on 10/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by FortAnthem
I've said before and I'll keep saying it until it gets through your thick skulls.

Pope Benedict XVI is conducting an all out war against pedophiles and sex abusers in the Church, Pope John Paul II is the one who let all of the abuse happen on his watch and facilitated the cover ups.

Nice try but he's been caught with his name on the same dotted line instructing clerics to coverup rape allegations. He is also calling the existence of priest sex victims as "petty gossip". Sorry mate but I have a hard time respecting someone who calls rape victims liars when there is proof to the contrary.

Oh and he told aids sufferers to not use condoms so in my book he's guilty of mass murder as well but thats another subject..

If he is not sacked I believe there is a big chance the catholic church will fall. You can still be christian and follow Jesus teachings' without following a man who protects child rapists.

If Jesus existed.. how would he feel about the atrocities the catholic church continues to commit.

reply to post by riley


There seems to be some kind of underlying direct and highly conceous policy within the Catholic Church to ignore, hide and "wash away" accusations and even proven cases of child abuse. This must come to an end, and as many of you have pointed out, this may indeed lead to the end of the Church as we know it. As I myself have pointed out on many occations, the reason behind the judgement of Babylon as shown in the Apocalypse of John is a direct referance to the synoptic Gospels:

Revelation 18:21 "A mighty angel took up a [...] millstone, and threw it into the sea, saying, 'This is how Babylon will be destroyed, never to be rebuilt'"

Compare with:

Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42 and Luke 17:2: "whosoever offends one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone was placed around his neck, and he was thrown into the sea."

And st. Malachy's prophecy of the sitting pope:

"In the Glory of the Olive" (Ratzingers crest contained olive branches)
He will reign during the ultimate persecution of the Holy Roman Church.

and about the next, and last pope, when Babylon will be destroyed:

"Peter the Roman"
(Who) will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the fearsome Judge will judge His people. The End.

[edit on 11/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]