Unprecedented Look Inside Jehovahs Witnesses

One point you guys should know JW's don't want to waste their time with people who are not interested in the message. Because they have a lot of work to do. (Matthew 24:14)

And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

All you have to say is "I have talked to Jehovah's Witnesses before and I am really not interested". That will send 90% of JW's on their way, sure the odd aggressive one might persist, but most won't.

And they view their commission to preach from Jesus Christ himself at
Matthew 28: 18-20

Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Actually if you are christian it's pretty hard to ignore this scripture.

Soooo general guidelines on how to manipulate people and geer discussions to do just that.. pretty standard Christian tripe..mind control techniques for 'those true of heart' lmao..

reply to post by JWtruth123


JWtruth123, is there anyway I could get a copy of the whole book from you?
I've been looking for it for years.

reply to post by texastig


I am familiar with your lack of trust with the witnesses, so I say this hesitantly, however, if you really want the book, next time witnesses are at your door, ask them for a copy.

Althought the book is never offered when in the door to door ministry, as it is considered something more than and introductory teaching aid, unlike the book "What does the bible really teach" ( this book can be found online at watchtower.org www.watchtower.org... ) or the Watchtower and Awake magazines, it is not a 'secret' book, and alot of witnesses carry one with them while in the ministry.
Now, as a fact, because it is not offered to the public in the witnesses ministry, a witness at your door will be taken aback when you ask for a copy...and you may get a reply like "all I have is my own personal copy, but I can get one and bring it back to you"
They are not blowing you off, they simply do not want to give you something with their name and notes in the book. If you ask them to bring you a copy, you will get one.

Now, I have stated that I tell you this hesitantly, because I assume you are looking for new contradictions, or angles to bash witnesses. But, I believe that if you have this information in full context, it might help you have a better understanding of them, and their desire to teach from the bible, not their own understanding. All principles and arguments in the book are based on, and cite the scriptures. Hence the name of the book 'Reasoning from the Scriptures'

Now, if you don't wanna wait for them to call on your door, go to the nearest Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses...if you don't know where one is, use your phone book, they are listed.

And just so you know that what I am saying does not go against what the Watchtower says about this publication...in the year it was realesed 1986, The March 1st Watchtower stated
"Carry this valuable handbook with you regularly in the field ministry. Offer it to Bible students who show a desire to talk with others about what they have learned. It will not ordinarily be offered to the public. But if someone asks if he may have a copy, do not hesitate to obtain one for him."

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


I'm going to use it against them. If someone keeps lying to you more than six times will you keep believing them?
They don't believe Jesus is God even though their NWT says it in places.
If they don't believe that Jesus is God then they are believing in another Jesus.

reply to post by texastig


Yeah...I remember your posts in my thread, "Debunking false claims about Jehovah's witnesses"
You are very stubborn. And, I think that's good. Be stubborn for your faith.
That's totally cool in my book. But not being close minded is something I think alot of us can work on. Anyways...the point is, that book is not a secret book, anyone in the public can have it if they ask for it. So, please, get a copy...that is where I got alot of the info I posted in my debunking thread.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
reply to post by texastig

 

Yeah...I remember your posts in my thread, "Debunking false claims about Jehovah's witnesses"
You are very stubborn. And, I think that's good. Be stubborn for your faith.
That's totally cool in my book. But not being close minded is something I think alot of us can work on. Anyways...the point is, that book is not a secret book, anyone in the public can have it if they ask for it. So, please, get a copy...that is where I got alot of the info I posted in my debunking thread.

Well I never said it was secret, I think someone else did. I don't understand how people can be jw's when they get lied to all the time with the following:

“Beginning of the End” in 1799 (later changed to 1914).
“1799 definitely marks the beginning of ‘the time of the end.’ ‘The time of the end’ embraces a period from A.D. 1799, as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan’s empire. We have been in ‘the time of the end’ since 1799.”
The Harp of God (1928 ed.): 235–236, 239.

Christ’s “Invisible Presence” begins in 1874 (later changed to 1914).
“The time of the Lord’s second presence dates from 1874. From 1874 forward is the latter part of the period of ‘the time of the end.’ From 1874 is the time of the Lord’s second presence.”
The Harp of God, 236, 239–240.

The Battle of Armageddon ends in 1914 (later changed to “still future”). “The ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.”
Charles Taze Russell, The Time Is at Hand, 101.

The Battle of Armageddon will end shortly after 1914.
“In the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of ‘Christianity.’”
Charles Taze Russell, The Finished Mystery (1917 ed.), 485.

The Battle of Armageddon will come around 1925.
“The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel. Viewing the present situation in Europe, one wonders how it will be possible to hold back the explosion much longer; and that even before 1925 the great crisis will be reached and probably passed.” The Watch Tower (July 15, 1924): 211.

1914 is the starting date for the last generation before the Battle of Armageddon.
“The thirty-six intervening years since 1914, instead of postponing Armageddon, have only made it nearer than most people think. Do not forget: ‘This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled’ ” (Matt. 24:34).
The Watchtower (November 1, 1950): 419.

People who were present and understood the events of 1914 will live to see the Battle of Armageddon.
“Jesus said, ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Which generation is this, and how long is it? The ‘generation’ logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ’s followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus’ composite ‘sign.’ Some of such persons ‘will by no means pass away until’ all of what Christ prophesied occurs, including the end of the present wicked system.”
The Watchtower (October 1, 1978): 31.

Anyone born by 1914 will live to see Armageddon.
“If Jesus used ‘generation’ in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now seventy years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their eighties or nineties, a few even having reached one hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them ‘will by no means pass away until all things occur’ ” (Luke 21:32).
The Watchtower (May 14, 1984): 5.

Anyone who sees the events signaling the End, regardless of any relationship to 1914, will see the Battle of Armageddon.
“Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s People have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation. ‘This generation’ apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways.”
The Watchtower (November 1, 1995): 17–20.

Yes, witnesses are zealous for the end of Satans rule. I grew up with the idea that the term generation with regards Satan being cast out of heaven and Jesus taking his throne was literaly those alive at the time. Ahhhhh so anxious we are. When the transition was made to the recognition that 'generation' was used more in the line of how it was commonly used in the past, as the watchtowers you quoted mentioned...it was an easy transition becasue it makes sense.

As does most things that are a clearer understanding of the truth.

As far as witnesses "lying" so many times...You might want to recognize that the witnesses are the result of bible students who heard the call to "get out of her my people" and had to transition out of Babylon the Great, the empire of false religion.

This was not an overnight process.

Before the witnesses took the name 'Jehovah's Witnesses' in 1931, they called themselves Bible Students. And as you have pointed out several times, they used to preach the cross, celbrate christmas, and other holidays.
Basically they had to claw their way out of christendom by looking past 'versions' of the Bible, and accepted dogma...seeking out accurate translations...how helpful the dead sea scrolls have been in confirming what was, and was not in the original scriptures.
They have and ARE STILL MAKING the seperation from the false teachings that have crept into Christian religions, such as the trinity, and immortality of the soul.

So, how can I believe them?
Because of the sincere scrutiny and study of the scriptures that the students all undertake.

So...get that copy of "Reasoning from the Scriptures" and use it to your benefit.

reply to post by texastig

I'm going to use it against them. If someone keeps lying to you more than six times will you keep believing them? They don't believe Jesus is God even though their NWT says it in places. If they don't believe that Jesus is God then they are believing in another Jesus.

Please show me where in the bible it says that-any bible...

From where I am standing it seems to me that God (Yahweh) and Jesus are two completely different beings...

There are only a couple of points that separate Jehovah's witnesses from Christians... and the above is the biggest factor.

Originally posted by jinx880101
Please show me where in the bible it says that-any bible...
From where I am standing it seems to me that God (Yahweh) and Jesus are two completely different beings...
There are only a couple of points that separate Jehovah's witnesses from Christians... and the above is the biggest factor.

Isaiah 7:14
“Therefore the Lord [Jehovah] himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”. [God with us]

Isaiah 9:6
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God .”

John 10:30-33
Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 20:28
“Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”

Acts 20:28
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Heb 1:8
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Jesus has many names and titles, as does his Father, as do you and I.
Jesus can be called eternal father, because his sacrifice opened the door for us to have eternal life. Jesus can be called mighty god, because he is second only to The Almighty God...surely a position of great posterity and power.

And of course John 1:1...some translations, wich I am well aware Texastig doesn't recognize their accuracy over other versions...read as "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

But to prove the point

Jesus was God's son...that is how he veiwed himself, and wanted us to view him...or else why would he have said it so many many times....

(Matthew 7:21) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens wil. . .
(Matthew 10:32-33) 32 “Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33 but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. . .
(Matthew 11:26-27) . . .. 27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.
(Matthew 12:49-50) . . .! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. . .
(Matthew 15:12-13) . . .” 13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.
(Matthew 16:17) . . .“Happy you are, Simon son of Jo′nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did.
(Matthew 18:9-10) . . .. 10 See to it that YOU men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell YOU that their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. . .
(Matthew 18:13-14) . . .. 14 Likewise it is not a desirable thing with my Father who is in heaven for one of these little ones to perish. . .
(Matthew 18:19) 19 Again I truly say to YOU, If two of YOU on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them due to my Father in heaven.
(Matthew 18:35) 35 In like manner my heavenly Father will also deal with YOU if YOU do not forgive each one his brother from YOUR hearts. . .
(Matthew 20:23) 23 He said to them: “YOU will indeed drink my cup, but this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father. . .
(Matthew 25:34) 34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. . .
(Matthew 26:29) 29 But I tell YOU, I will by no means drink henceforth any of this product of the vine until that day when I drink it new with YOU in the kingdom of my Father. . .
(Matthew 26:39) 39 And going a little way forward, he fell upon his face, praying and saying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.. . .
(Matthew 26:41-42) . . .” 42 Again, for the second time, he went off and prayed, saying: “My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place. . .
(Matthew 26:53) 53 Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father to supply me at this moment more than twelve legions of angels?
(Mark 8:37-38) . . .? 38 For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he arrives in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. . .
(Luke 2:49) 49 But he said to them: “Why did YOU have to go looking for me? Did YOU not know that I must be in the [house] of my Father?. . .
(Luke 9:25-26) . . .? 26 For whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will be ashamed of this one when he arrives in his glory and that of the Father and of the holy angels. . .
(Luke 10:22) 22 All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”
(Luke 22:28-29) . . .; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom. . .
(Luke 23:46) 46 And Jesus called with a loud voice and said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” When he had said this, he expired. . .
(Luke 24:48-49) 48 YOU are to be witnesses of these things. 49 And, look! I am sending forth upon YOU that which is promised by my Father. YOU, though, abide in the city until YOU become clothed with power from on high. . .
(John 2:16) 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!”
(John 5:17-18) 17 But he answered them: “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.” 18 On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. . .
(John 5:36) 36 But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, the works themselves that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father dispatched me. . .
(John 5:42-43) . . .. 43 I have come in the name of my Father, but YOU do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, YOU would receive that one. . .
(John 6:32) 32 Hence Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Moses did not give YOU the bread from heaven, but my Father does give YOU the true bread from heaven. . .
(John 6:37-38) 37 Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the one that comes to me I will by no means drive away; 38 because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
(John 6:40) 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day. . .
(John 8:16) 16 And yet if I do judge, my judgment is truthful, because I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me. . .


half way there

(John 8:19) 19 Therefore they went on to say to him: “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered: “YOU know neither me nor my Father. If YOU did know me, YOU would know my Father also. . .
(John 8:28) 28 Therefore Jesus said: “When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then YOU will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. . .
(John 8:38) 38 What things I have seen with my Father I speak; and YOU, therefore, do the things YOU have heard from [YOUR] father. . .
(John 8:49-50) 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and YOU dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself. . .
(John 8:53-55) . . .Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who YOU say is YOUR God; 55 and yet YOU have not known him. But I know him. And if I said I do not know him I should be like YOU, a liar. . .
(John 10:14-15) 14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.
(John 10:17-18) 17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my soul, in order that I may receive it again. 18 No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father.”
(John 10:25) 25 Jesus answered them: “I told YOU, and yet YOU do not believe. The works that I am doing in the name of my Father, these bear witness about me. . .
(John 10:29-30) 29 What my Father has given me is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father. 30 I and the Father are one.” if you are reading all of these...I submit that Jesus and the Father are one in that they have the same goals, Jesus perfectly imitates his father, and no one knows the father like the son does--oh, wait, I shouldn't need to explain this to any bible student, if they read past verse 30 the scripture continues and Jesus himself explains this....(John 10:31-37) 31 Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to YOU many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are YOU stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me.
(John 12:48-50) 48 He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day; 49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. 50 Also, I know that his commandment means everlasting life. Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father has told me [them], so I speak [them].”
(John 14:1-3) . . .. 2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.
(John 14:6-21) 6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe on account of the works themselves. 12 Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. 13 Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. 14 If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it. 15 “If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments; 16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. YOU know it, because it remains with YOU and is in YOU. 18 I shall not leave YOU bereaved. I am coming to YOU. 19 A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but YOU will behold me, because I live and YOU will live. 20 In that day YOU will know that I am in union with my Father and YOU are in union with me and I am in union with YOU. 21 He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.”
(John 14:23-24) 23 In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him. 24 He that does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that YOU are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me.
(John 14:26) 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.
(John 14:28) 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
(John 15:1-2) . . .“I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. 2 Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit. . .
(John 15:8-10) 8 My Father is glorified in this, that YOU keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me and I have loved YOU, remain in my love. 10 If YOU observe my commandments, YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.
(John 15:15-16) 15 I no longer call YOU slaves, because a slave does not know what his master does. But I have called YOU friends, because all the things I have heard from my Father I have made known to YOU. 16 YOU did not choose me, but I chose YOU, and I appointed YOU to go on and keep bearing fruit and that YOUR fruit should remain; in order that no matter what YOU ask the Father in my name he might give it to YOU.
(John 15:23-24) 23 He that hates me hates also my Father. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have both seen and hated me as well as my Father. . .
(John 16:23-24) 23 And in that day YOU will ask me no question at all. Most truly I say to YOU, If YOU ask the Father for anything he will give it to YOU in my name. 24 Until this present time YOU have not asked a single thing in my name. Ask and YOU will receive, that YOUR joy may be made full.
(John 16:26-28) 26 In that day YOU will ask in my name, and I do not say to YOU that I shall make request of the Father concerning YOU. 27 For the Father himself has affection for YOU, because YOU have had affection for me and have believed that I came out as the Father’s representative. 28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Further, I am leaving the world and am going my way to the Father.”
(John 17:24-26) 24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them. . .
(John 20:17) . . .Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”
(Acts 13:33) 33 that God has entirely fulfilled it to us their children in that he resurrected Jesus; even as it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my son, I have become your Father this day.. . .
(Ephesians 1:17) 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give YOU a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him;
(Hebrews 1:5-6) 5 For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”? 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”
(Hebrews 5:4-5) . . .. 5 So too the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but [was glorified by him] who spoke with reference to him: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.”
(2 Peter 1:16-18) . . .. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain. . .

So...pretty sure, if we were going use the bible to prove a point...Jesus called Jehovah his father. He was pretty clear about that, his disciples were pretty clear about it.

(1 John 4:1) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

I wanted to throw this scripture in, to put forth that even the inspired word of God accounted for imperfect mans meddling and Satan's influence...

One or two scriptures can be altered, added, taken away...but when held up against the consistent message in the bible...the light will shine through.

Teaching such as Jesus being Jehovah, and the imortality of the soul are rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses as they have no consistent proof in the inspired word of Jehovah, the God Almighty. The one Called "I will Prove to be What I will Prove to Be"

Oh...before someone else gets to it...1 Timothy 3:16...as read in the King James as was posted above =

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.


Other versions translations use the term He, or even Christ


1 Timothy 3:16 (New World Translation) 16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’

1 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 (New Living Translation) 16 Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith[a]: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 (American Standard Version) 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 (Holman Christian Standard Bible) 16 And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 (Contemporary English Version) 16Here is the great mystery of our religion: Christ came as a human. The Spirit proved that he pleased God, and he was seen by angels. Christ was preached to the nations. People in this world put their faith in him, and he was taken up to glory.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
Jesus can be called mighty god, because he is second only to The Almighty God...surely a position of great posterity and power.

Jesus is not second, He is God. 1Tim 3:16 God was manifested in the flesh.
Matt 1:23 "Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im·man´u·el,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
And of course John 1:1...some translations, wich I am well aware Texastig doesn't recognize their accuracy over other versions...read as "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

Contrary to the translations of The Emphatic Diaglott and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, the Greek grammatical construction leaves no doubt whatsoever that this is the only possible rendering of the text. The subject of the sentence is Word , the verb was. There can be no direct object following “was” since according to grammatical usage intransitive verbs take no objects but take instead predicate nominatives, which refer back to the subject—in this case, Word . In fact, the late New Testament Greek scholar Dr. E. C. Colwell formulated a rule that clearly states that a definite predicate nominative (in this case, —God) never takes an article when it precedes the verb (was), as we find in John 1:1. It is therefore easy to see that no article is needed for (God), and to translate it “a god” is both incorrect grammar and poor Greek since is the predicate nominative of was in the third sentence-clause of the verse and must refer back to the subject, Word . Christ, if He is the Word “made flesh” (John 1:14), can be no one else except God unless the Greek text and consequently God’s Word be denied.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, in an appendix in their New World Translation (pp. 773–777), attempt to discredit the proper translation on this point, for they realize that if Jesus and Jehovah are “One” in nature, their theology cannot stand since they deny that unity of nature. The refutation of their arguments on this point is conclusive.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
Jesus was God's son...that is how he veiwed himself, and wanted us to view him...or else why would he have said it so many many times....

He viewed Himself as the Son and God. John 10:33 [Jews are speaking to Jesus] "because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
Jesus is telling them that He is God.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
Teaching such as Jesus being Jehovah, and the imortality of the soul are rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses as they have no consistent proof in the inspired word of Jehovah, the God Almighty. The one Called "I will Prove to be What I will Prove to Be."

You all are using the wrong Bible and believing the teachings of Adventist.
Your own translation says in John 20:28 "In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

[edit on 4/14/2010 by texastig]

[edit on 4/14/2010 by texastig]

MESSIAH
Christ
What did these words mean? Were they meaningless? Do we need to do a search as to how it can be twisted into the thought that the prophecied Messiah/Christ meant God himself coming to Earth...or will we go ahead and ignore that these descriptions mean the person sent by God to redeem mankind from the sin of Adam and settle Satan's challenge of
God's soveriegnty? Why would God come to Earth to clean the slate of Adam's sin...that doesn't really seem like an equalizing does it?

What about the belief prior to the trinity's preached throughout the old world, the Hebrew belief in the One God?

Not the 'one of three'...but the One Almighty God.

(Joshua 22:22) 22 “Divine One, God, Jehovah, Divine One, God, Jehovah, he is knowing, and Israel, he too will know. If it is in rebellion and if it is in unfaithfulness against Jehovah, do not save us this day.

(Psalm 50:1) 50 The Divine One, God, Jehovah, has himself spoken, And he proceeds to call the earth, From the rising of the sun until its setting.

(Malachi 2:10) 10 “Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another, in profaning the covenant of our forefathers?

(Mark 2:7-8) 7 “Why is this man talking in this manner? He is blaspheming. Who can forgive sins except one, God?” 8 But Jesus, having discerned immediately by his spirit that they were reasoning that way in themselves, said to them: “Why are YOU reasoning these things in YOUR hearts?

Oh, and here is one where Jesus doesn't accept the worship belonging to God....
(Mark 10:18) 18 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God. . .

And here is a scripture that notes that in the bible individuals other than the One God have had that title used towards them
(1 Corinthians 8:5-6) 5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Here is a good couple verses that uses One...look, spirit, God and Father, Lord, Faith, Baptism, Hope, Body...you might want to remebmer this one if you want to twist a new idea using only one quote....a new idea that EVERYTHING is ONE. Oh, but that would be riduculous to infer that EVERYTHING is one...we wouldn't want to read anything into it. So lets just read it...
(Ephesians 4:4-6) '4 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.'
I'm gonna say this scripture is denoting there is one truth...and the aspects that should be familiar to those who know it... Maybe texastig and I should start a thread on this scripture alone?

Next one
(1 Timothy 2:4-7) . . .. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.

Oh.....again the consistency of the majority of the scriptures speaks once more about Christ Jesus being betwene God and men...not as in half Almighty God and half man...but as a mediator, the one sent by God to give his life on mans behalf...a completely seperate person.

And nearly finally
(James 2:19-20) 19  You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20  But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive?

Okay...I am done derailing this 'Exposing JW's' thread with THE battle against 'Babylon The Great's' LIE of the TRINITY, a doctrine meant to distract and confuse truthseekers...
I would like nothing better than the truths that are abundantly clear in the bible to be seen, truths that are sadly overlooked by those bent on holding on to pagan beliefs set out thousands of years ago, embeded in doctrines , dogma; loosly supported by the missrepesentation and twisting of just a few scriptures, as hundreds of other verses and statements made in the scriptures are ignored...as thats not going to happen then...I can no longer give my time here. Which I am sure the Author of this thread would appreciate...as he intended to give an unprecedented look into the witnesses, and I have only pushed the witness status quo...'use what the bible really says, not what you FEEL it says to you'...and I see this thead has since lost its conspiracy status...I hate it when that happens!!! Turely I do...I like the conspiracy theads!

Maybe if anyone takes the time to read all the scriptures, they will have a new veiwpoint of the witnesses, and realize they are only bible students, and take the whole scripture in context to sculpt their veiwpoints...not just
a few badly translated verses, those repeatedly used by the Empire of False Religion, Babylon the Great =

(Revelation 18:4-5) 4.. “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven. . .

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


The watch tower spreads lies and they continue to do so. How about the house they built for Abraham.

In anticipation of the soon to be resurrected biblical prophets and patriarchs, Joseph Rutherford, president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society commissioned the construction of a house in San Diego, California. This house was to become home for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Samuel and all the rest mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11. However, when the biblical party failed to appear, the embarrassing Beth-Sarim incident had to be repressed.

Beginning in 1920, Rutherford declared, "As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized." How would it be recognized? What event would trigger the ushering in of the kingdom?

Rutherford explained, "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, pp. 89-90).

When the faithful prophets didn't show up, Rutherford started living in that house.

How many lies will it take before you believe that the watch tower is false?