Kyrgyzstan protesters storm state media offices

reply to post by MikeboydUS


so the protestors are walking around with russian made anti tank weapons and russia already denying they have anything to do with it... hmmmm

or perhaps yes, they simply just have this stuff lyin around and those who know where to find them, got them and yeah...

CNN just had about aminute piece on it all... after they talked about militias, and wikileaks and whatever else...

reply to post by TheCoffinman


If I understood MikeboydUS' post correctly, the leader of the uprising is vehemently pro-American.

(In which case the Russian-made equipment is just standard issue that's somehow been 'commandeered'.)

reply to post by pause4thought


The President has resigned, or was kidnapped, or ran away. The government has officially collapsed!

Protests topple Kyrgyzstan's president, opposition claims

A former foreign minister claimed to be in control of an interim government in Kyrgyzstan early Thursday after a wave of protests that left at least 40 dead and appeared to have driven President Kurmanbek Bakiev from office.

From my understanding they got their high power Russian made weapons by storming military posts and police posts. There is also the obvious possibility of a semi coup, in which military men joined the fight and "accidentally" left weapons un protected. But these crafty people even at the beginning stole riot vans and stormed military weapon caches from government offices.

Ironically.. the last President in 2005 was put into power in the exact same way. To me it doesn't show the region destabilizing as much as it shows continued destabilization.

Follow-up to the news posted by Coffinman on the previous page regarding the setting up of a new government:

BISHKEK (Reuters) - The Kyrgyz opposition said on Wednesday it had forced the Central Asian country's government to resign and was demanding the president quit after troops shot at protesters besieging government buildings, killing dozens.

"We have reached an agreement that the government will resign. That has not been signed on paper yet," Galina Skripkina, a senior official in the opposition Social-Democratic Party and member of parliament, told Reuters.

She said President Kurmanbek Bakiyev had left the capital Bishkek — where demonstrators torched the prosecutor-general's office and tried to smash trucks into government buildings — and flown to the southern city of Osh.

"For now we have only achieved the government's resignation. The White House has surrendered. The president himself has not resigned. He must resign and formally submit his resignation to parliament so we can appoint a caretaker government," she said.

Spokesmen for the government and the president were not available for comment...

(NB: Map showing position of Kyrgyzstan added to OP)



[edit:]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thanks for the update! (I was still typing mine when you posted it.)



[edit on 7/4/10 by pause4thought]

Sorry,
new here need quick brief, democractic (ie ya we would like not to be slaves,,please sir,,) or not yes/no
The red shirts hey im old,, red hmmmmm i know,, so please lets say u guys be the Illluminated" ones for a change
Peace Out

Just a little background on the events in Kyrgyzstan and what preceeded them:



First I think there is a need to point out why Kyrgyzstan is so important to major world powers, especially the US. Contrary to what many think Kyrgyzstan does not have a lot of oil, and in fact it imports oil from neighboring republics. It is of course close to the resource-rich Caspian Sea basin, but the main focus as far as the US is concerned is the role Kyrgyzstan plays in the War on Terror and overall US efforts in Central Asia.

Kyrgyzstan allowed the US to set up an airbase - Manas - there during the start in the War in Afghanistan in 2001. This airbase continues to be critically important, and highlights increased influence of the US in Central Asia outside of just Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the recent year, there has been a lot of talk about extending the contract for US to use that base. It is important to point out that far from everyone in Kyrgyzstan is happy with the US presence, and there have been threats of closure of the base.

More about Manas Base:

www.manas.afcent.af.mil...
www.defense.gov...
Kyrgyzstan to shut down key NATO base
Kyrgyz parliament approves US base deal


And it just so happens that Kyrgyzstan also hosts a Russian base, called Kant, and has recently approved the building of a second Russian base. The previous President Akayev had very good relations with Russia, and under Bakiyev they became somewhat strained but the partnership continued.

Kyrgyzstan agrees to host second Russian base - Kremlin

And also not to forget China - which also borders Kyrgyzstan. In fact China's troubled Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, which saw massive riots in the past year, is right next to Kyrgyzstan.


So you have three world powers - US, Russia, and China - playing in and around Kyrgyzstan, which was never a stable state to begin with. All three have influence over it, and wouldn't mind seeing that influence expand. It is obvious why all three are seriously concerned about what is happening there now. Of the three, the US stands to potentially lose the most if President Bakiyev is ousted. If US is kicked out of Manas, the efforts in Afghanistan could be very adversely impacted.




And now for the background of political events that lead to the current crisis:

Being an new ally of the US could spell major concerns to the host nation, which Kyrgyzstan became for the US air base. US didn't just want a base - it clearly wanted influence in the country. Previous President Akayev allowed the US in, and soon the US started to pushing a political agenda on him - sort of like if you give them a finger they will take the whole hand analogy.

Soon the meddling of the US in Kyrgyz politics caused a crisis for Akayev, eventually culminating in the Tulip Revolution (aka a coup) in 2005. This went along similar lines to the revolutions-coups in Georgia and Ukraine. Few had a doubt that US played a crucial role in toppling Akayev, and placing their own man Bakiyev in power. Most likely the US did that in order to insure access to the Manas base, likely thinking ahead well past just the Afghanistan War.

www.nytimes.com...
www.nytimes.com...
www.globalsecurity.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


Bakiyev himself quickly centralized power and started eliminating opposition. What pretty much happened is that the US replaced one dictator, with its own dictator. You can imagine that just as with Georgia and Ukraine, neither Russia nor other neighbors of Kyrgyzstan were thrilled about that. And that brings us to where we are today.




What we are effectively seeing is the continued reversal of the colored revolutions trend, that was organized by the US under Bush. Ukraine already kicked Yuschenko and his pro-US political allies out during recent election. Saakashvili is grasping to what's left of his credibility in Georgia. And Bakiyev is clearly the next in line. Some sources suggested that Bakiyev has departed on a jet today from where else - the Mana US Air Base. It is unclear if he is still in the country.

lenta.ru...
(source in Russia)

So far Manas airbase has not been effected - yet. One can only guess what the opposition will do regarding it, assuming that the opposition is effectively in power. You can be sure contingency plans are being drawn up, if they are not in place already.

Russians and Central Asian sources report that opposition has already assumed power, and that Bakiyev's administration is disbanded. However the police are still battling the protestors, which means that he hasn't lost all grasp on power yet.

In today's televised address both Putin and Medvedev pointed out that Russia is not playing a role in what is going on in Kyrgyzstan. Personally it wouldn't surprise me if it in fact is, however there is a lot of organic opposition to Bakiyev who have been calling on him to step down.




So overall Bakiyev's time has clearly come. In Russia and Central Asia he is widely recognized as a US puppet, and many will be glad to see him go. Sadly outside of Russia and Central Asia, few know about politics in Kyrgyzstan and the Tulip Revolution. US played its hand in a critically important geopolitical region, and appears to have lost. So assuming that Bakiyev is not coming back, watch for news regarding Manas Air Base in the coming months. It will be interesting to see the Western Media's take on it.

reply to post by maloy

That was fascinating.

I'm now confused as to why the wiki article quoted on the previous page made Beshimov, hitherto leader of the opposition, sound like the only one in the parliament who wants the US base to remain open.

Geez this aint the govt. yes/no please see above or have u too forgot to give answers like men. Let your yes be yes and your no well ya no no i mean see to confusing,,,,,,, yes/no

reply to post by BobAthome


I take it that you support the revolution wholeheartedly. Are you from the region under discussion? Do you then think the government was so corrupt it had to be removed?

Originally posted by pause4thought
If I understood MikeboydUS' post correctly, the leader of the uprising is vehemently pro-American.

Actually the ousted President Bakiyev was pro-American. He was brought to power in the Tulip Revolution in 2005, believed to have been organized and sponsored by the US.

The opposition that initiated this uprising seems to be an alliance of sorts, made up of politicians who are friendly to Russia, to the US, or neutral. It seems that the current revolution is not so much about foreign interests, as it is about ousting of Bakiyev who became an outright dictator.

It is not yet clear whether the new regime will favor Russia or US, or perhaps both. Roza Otunbayeva who was chosen to lead, has opposed both Akayev and Bakiev, and could in fact be neutral in foreign interests. She could play Russia off against the US and keep the status quo. Still the US is no doubt concerned with the future of the Manas Air Base, which many in the opposition wanted to be closed.

Originally posted by pause4thought
(In which case the Russian-made equipment is just standard issue that's somehow been 'commandeered'.)

Soviet equipment is the only kind Kyrgyzstan has. Both the police and the military have Soviet era equipment. You won't see Western equipment used regardless of who is behind this uprising.

Originally posted by pause4thought
I'm now confused as to why the wiki article quoted on the previous page made Beshimov, hitherto leader of the opposition, sound like the only one in the parliament who wants the US base to remain open.

This is where it gets murky and complicated. Beshimov has been quoted by different sources as being both pro-Russian and pro-US. My guess is that he was trying to keep all options open in order to facilitate his efforts to topple Bakiyev. In fact Bakiyev himself appeared to suddenly switch sides to favor Russia in February 2009, during his trip to Moscow. Right after that he did an about-face though, and supported keeping the base.

Both Bakiyev and Beshimov are likely playing Russia off against the US to achieve politicals ends. That is why the future is hard to predict as I pointed out earlier.

Could the actions of Beshimov and the opposition actually have been approved by the US? Possibly. That would be an interesting twist. I doubt however that the opposition will be anyone's puppet. Their best bet is to stay neutral. What that means for Manas is still unclear.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by maloy]

So how long until the helicopter gunships roll in?

Or are there no gunships?

Except for the American & Russian gunships.

Saw the Wikileaks thing. not so much a fan of public gathering since...

reply to post by maloy


The SDPK also took part in the Tulip Revolution.

Roza Otunbayeva was one of its leaders.

So kind of like a Cuba thing way back when,, Castro etc
or more like a when American first landed in Iraq u know the pull down the statue part,,,

reply to post by maloy


I like your non-partisan approach. That response was sober, and balanced. Many thanks for clarifying the whole situation. You deserve a medal.



reply to post by lunchmanstan


International law contains the crucial principle of proportionality in responding to aggression. Any government not heeding that would render itself liable to a war crimes tribunal.


reply to post by BobAthome


You clearly have very strong views on this subject. It would be very helpful to know if you are from that region.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The SDPK also took part in the Tulip Revolution.

Roza Otunbayeva was one of its leaders.

Yes I realize that. Roza Otunbayeva opposed both Akayev and Bakiyev. She seems to be neither pro-Russian nor pro-US, and maybe that is for the best. However she is now allied with other opposition parties, that include both pro-Russian and pro-US interests. This could make it an interesting tug of war for the US and Russia.

So far I haven't really seen the US', or rather Pentagon's honest take on the events. There is not much news coming from Manas, except that Bakiyev flew out of there today.

My Friend
If u think my views were strong on this post were strong,,where does a free man live but everywhere,, where does the heart belong in your own hands my friend, there is indeed a season to all things and that season is in its spring awakening for remember, gee this really can be a great place to live.
For once it was indeed very good, and very good was just fine .

Very interestingly this news article by the US Department of Defense was released just yesterday. Peculiar coincidence.

Manas Airmen Move Troops Into Afghanistan

MANAS, Kyrgyzstan, April 6, 2010 – Airmen from the 376th Expeditionary Logistics Readiness Squadron here were busy in March, as they supported the surge of forces into Afghanistan, moving about 50,000 multinational, U.S. and coalition troops and issuing more than 12.5 million gallons of jet fuel.

March passenger movements far surpassed the previous record of 36,000, set in November.

...

The surge has required around-the-clock work from the terminal counter, terminal yard and baggage representatives.

"The normal ops were consistently steady, but now it is truly busy," Schwartz said. "By comparison, in December, we moved 5,388 passengers by the third week. Within our third week of March, we moved about 12,000."

...

"I would be willing to bet that this is the first time ever that two people pumped a million gallons of fuel in a single month using only the fuel trucks we have here," he said.

Russia's take:

Russia not involved in Kyrgyz events - Putin

At least 40 people have been killed and 400 injured in clashes between protesters and police in the capital, Bishkek.

"No matter what is going on there - it's Kyrgyzstan's domestic affair. The only thing I ask is that the authorities and opposition demonstrate restraint and refrain from violence," Putin said.

He also said that Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev had repeated mistakes made by his predecessor, Askar Akayev.

"When President Bakiyev came to power [after the so-called tulip revolution in 2005], he harshly criticized the toppled president, Akayev, for nepotism and giving his relatives top economic posts. I get the impression that Bakiyev has fallen into the same trap," Putin said.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by maloy]

Interesting pic:

This is an opposition fighter

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0fb3dd827c7.jpg[/atsimg]

Note the holographic reflex sight on his weapon.

That is an American made sight from Eotech, they cost around $400 US dollars. They cannot be legally exported outside the US. They are used by special operators, private contractors, and some foreign special operations groups.

Also note the modifications to the weapon being held by the man next to him, specifically the muzzle break. Thats another interesting out of place item.

[edit on 7/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

I just hope the police are ok like them or loath them they are there to protect you and if you bite the hand that feeds (or protects) A it does no good in the long run and B expect a bitch slap from the other hand xD just my two cents. But seriously the police have nothing to do with it other than following orders and putting food on the table for their families.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Very interesting. This may be more than a spontaneous protest against oil prices after all.