The Schauberger Free Energy Thread

After a brief but fascinating flirt with John Bedini's Monopole motors, my interest in Free Energy production has moved away from electronics and Bedini towards grosser more mechanical systems.

I've developed an interest in Viktor Schauberger and implosion technology, though am very much at the lower end of the learning curve at time of writing.

This thread is an appeal/invitation to the ATS community to anyone who shares my interest in this particular field/topic to contribute their ideas, thoughts, experience and hopefully their practical knowledge. Debunking and objections are also welcome, but please keep them civil and INTELLIGENT and please do your homework first!

Thread ground rules:

1. 'Free Energy Generation' in this thread refers to the expoitation or 'tapping' of any 'non-mainstream' source of already existing energy, in some novel and/or 'non-mainstream' way. In other words, we are looking for mechanical methods of converting the abundant and 'inexhaustible' supply of energy that pervades all of nature and our current 3D experience, into useable work - and specifically into electricity. We are not looking for something for nothing, or the magical creation of energy from nowhere - no violation of thermodynamics - so please resist the temptation to remind us all about thermodynamic laws and how they can't be broken - you are just going to look ignor-ant and hopefully you'll be ignor-ed

2. My personal agenda is to aid or assist in the development of, launch of, or awareness building of, a 'free energy machine' for the masses. Please see point number 1. for definition of 'free energy'!

3. My personal opinion is that point 2 above will be best achieved (in fact I believe 'only achieved') through an open source attitude. I believe patents belong to a dying paradigm and personal wealth may well flow to the developer(s)/inventor(s) of free energy tech, but NOT through an attempt to own or retain control over information. Jealously guarded secrets and technology sold to the highest bidder has IMO resulted in the world we have today - a global population held hostage by energy moguls and unprecedented poverty, starvation and human degradation in a world of abundance. Call me an idealist, but I believe this must change, and I am ready to play my part, as best I can.

For a quick intro to Viktor Schauberger, the Austrian born genius and 'Father of Implosion Technology', try this link: www.frank.germano.com...


To start the ball rolling, is there anyone out there with practical experience of any of Schauberger's vortex based machines?

reply to post by RogerT


Count me in Roger!

We have a synch in our philosophies i feel.

Catch your drift about 'free energy', and yes, it would be an absolute shock if there isn't at least one berk that feels the need to remind us of our place.

Perhaps, we could ask the mods/owners to make a PRO 'free energy section, and an 'ANTI' section, that way people would know exactly what they were going to find within the threads, without feeling a burning need to correct everyone...what d'you think?

I have a couple of ideas that may be worth exploring.

Based on completely legitimate physics, using convection to drive fans.

(i have about 50 or 60 steel baby food cans, 5 inch dia. And about 100 alu beer cans i've been collecting)

Got to go out for a bit. i'll tell you more later.

reply to post by RogerT


Good idea for a thread. Here is an article I posted in another thread. It explains somewhat how cold water powers the early saucers/implosion motors:

www.antigravitytechnology.net...

This page contains pdf downloads called on Viktor Schauberger's work:

www.aeonia.com...

This was a good video about Victors's life and work:

www.aeonia.com...

Thanks for the input so quickly guys. I'll be checking out the links and waiting for the ideas to 'pour in'

Personally, I value the critics' contribution, as long as it is intelligent and relevant. Without critics, egos have a way of believing their own hype, embellishing results (perhaps unconsciously), and generally losing the plot!

IMO, inside the paradigm 'free energy for the masses', the naysayers are very welcome, if not essential, as they help to moderate and sometimes propel the ideas.

In my experience, there's nothing more creative or driven than an inventor/entrepreneur with conviction, who's been told he/she 'can't' do something!

Ok I'm a sceptic about the possibility to hook easyly into zero point energy. Which is often synonym with free energy.
That said, I do believe his machines did work! But the Repulsine for example needs disassemble molekules and strip the atoms electron hull. That instrument will put out x-rays...
I think I know how it works, and following that, I can say he achieves that with a primitive engine, but it must be very precisely build.
So I don't have to write that much here have a read here:

solosister.de...

Thanks for the link, is that your personal site? Sailing and cold fusion, quite an eclectic mix

Are you aware of anyone who has got their Repulsine to 'work'? Unfortunately, my Deutsch is not good enough to read this link: www.implosion-ev.de...

Originally posted by RogerT
Thread ground rules:

1. 'Free Energy Generation' ...We are not looking for.. violation of thermodynamics - so please resist the temptation to remind us all about thermodynamic laws and how they can't be broken - you are just going to look ignor-ant and hopefully you'll be ignor-ed

For a quick intro to Viktor Schauberger, the Austrian born genius and 'Father of Implosion Technology', try this link: www.frank.germano.com...

I'm confused, you post a ground rule that says we are not looking for violation of thermodynamics, and then you seemingly break your own ground rule by posting a link which says:

Implosion has to do with a self sustaining vortex flow of any liquid or gaseous medium, which has a concentrating, ordering effect and which decreases the temperature of the medium, in opposition to the dictates of "modern" thermodynamics.

Are we following the laws of modern thermodynamics in this thread or ignoring them or trying to rewrite them, and if the latter, it's not a science thread, is it? Please clarify.

reply to post by RogerT


Nope I haven't heard of any working Repulsine. But there are some things that show me people try out stuff that can't work.
1. Some people postulate that the Waveplates have to tuoch. Never will that work in my mind. Plates touching at 10000-to20000 rpm? no way.
2. The plates have to be precise and very much so. The guys at www.implosion-ev.de... tried and the turning waveplate deformed from centrifugal forces. Which tells me: the plates were to far apart.
3. I would electricaly isolate every part of the engine from the next. One principle of this engine is to staticaly charge the air.
4. It might be neccesary to plate the waveplates with gold to prevent oxidation, that will make it difficult for the gas and water molekules to give their electrons to the waveplates.
5. The air repulsine is derived from a water machine. It will not work without water, which gives the H atoms in abundance. The implosion required comes from the cooling of air due to the water injection.
6. As I stated in my paper no Working without Carbon, be that CO2 or use carbonated water.
7. Don't try with destilled water. Put some ions in and some silikate.

Said all that I would like to try it out, but I'm sad to say, I lack the funds in the moment. There might be other things to try out if it is not working.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by RogerT
Thread ground rules:

1. 'Free Energy Generation' ...We are not looking for.. violation of thermodynamics - so please resist the temptation to remind us all about thermodynamic laws and how they can't be broken - you are just going to look ignor-ant and hopefully you'll be ignor-ed

For a quick intro to Viktor Schauberger, the Austrian born genius and 'Father of Implosion Technology', try this link: www.frank.germano.com...

I'm confused, you post a ground rule that says we are not looking for violation of thermodynamics, and then you seemingly break your own ground rule by posting a link which says:

Implosion has to do with a self sustaining vortex flow of any liquid or gaseous medium, which has a concentrating, ordering effect and which decreases the temperature of the medium, in opposition to the dictates of "modern" thermodynamics.

Are we following the laws of modern thermodynamics in this thread or ignoring them or trying to rewrite them, and if the latter, it's not a science thread, is it? Please clarify.

I think the word "modern" is in quotes for a reason.
The thread is about the work of V.S and his intuited discoveries that relate to the "harnessing" of nature's energy. If that apparently 'opposes the dictates of modern thermo" then so be it.

Anyway, doesn't this quote simply refer to the cooling effect being contradictory to an expected heating effect? First of all, is this really in opposition to Thermodynamics or is this just a mistaken assertion by the author, or simply semantic confusion.

Does the quote infer a breaking of the second law of thermodynamics? I don't think so. Maybe you do. Can you do a little more homework and come to the party with something worth sharing? Are you up to challenging the science rather than the semantics?

[edit on 7/4/10 by RogerT]

reply to post by solosister


One thing really bothers me....

a bunch of these guys (V.S, Tesla, Keely etc) show up around 50 - 150 years ago and demonstrate these energy technologies, using century old machining and materials, and not a single person, or even group of people, in our incredibly sophisticated societies of today can even get close!

What's going on? Are these legendary folk unparalleled geniuses who kept their inspirations secret or are they simply myths??

Accepted, that not many 'modern' scientists/engineers are up for intuiting natures secrets of energy flow by watching fish swimming upstream, but really, not even one can follow the lead??

[edit on 7/4/10 by RogerT]

I love Schauberger. His ideas can be used in so many different fields. Its the simplest form of getting free energy, simple down to the roots. You can basically make free energy devices with only a knife and the use of a forest. If you really "feel" what you're doing. Actually I think all the over-unity devices from inventors like Tesla etc. use the same basic principles that Schauberger found. I encourage everyone to read Callum Coats books on Schauberger.
I understand a lot of things much better after reading those. You can see proof of his theories everywhere around you. Strange phenomena in nature are easily explained, sometimes I laugh over theories that people make on certain phenomena but I won't go into that.
I have a few ideas for practical usage, actually i was quite fired up and seriously into it because i understand the way things work, but i never did more than a few tests with hoses etc. I'm ashamed to say i'm not a doer. But its priceless to know these things in case I HAVE to use it someday


here are some vids
Extraordinary nature of Water


Nature was my teacher


Callum Coats - Sacred living geometry


Viktor's Flume part I (shot in 1920's)

I think those guys were geniuses and a lot so. On the other hand scientific reality as we see it was still much more open to discussion then. They could look at the world from a totaly different perspective.
What is realy important is two things. We don't understand nature better, we understand the our models of nature better. That does not imply that there are not other models valid as well. that these models may help predict outcomes as well.
Schauberger allways said you move wrong, implosion, not expolsion. All our technics are based on explosion!
He manged to get fluids to move in sprals, and expend their thermal movement in favor of following nice spirals. Hence he made pipes with negative friction. Meaning the fluid in those pipes spend thermal movements to accelerate the media. Not a contradiction of thermodynamics at all, when you think about it. Just out of our models!
Very much hand in hand goes the part with the fusion. Our scientists think about which force is needed to push two atoms together. He made a machine that made them move in a way, that there is no energy left to keep them apart.

Originally posted by RogerT
Can you do a little more homework and come to the party with something worth sharing? Are you up to challenging the science rather than the semantics?

I looked at the link you posted for some science, and the middle of this page was the closest I could find to any description about the so-called "science" of the free energy device:

www.frank.germano.com...

2.) As soon as the rotor reaches top speed, the water is centrifuged against a fluted outer wall with enormous force. As it impacts a dense electrical force-field evolves, in which, the weight of the water is neutralized. This electric charge can be increased by the rotor's rate of rotation. The water rises, with out being lifted, in the suction-pipe and passes into the whorl-pipes from the collector. The fall-weight is the impulse that enables the ducting off of "surplus" power. From time to time, the water should be changed. The electric charge also must be ducted away, otherwise, it can act as a "brake" in front of the water nozzles.

Centrifuging water against a fluted outer wall with enormous force will create friction, and this friction will generate heat. But no explanation is provided for the source of the energy which will generate this heat, on an ongoing basis.

Does a dense electrical force-field really evolve and if so by what mechanism, and even if it does, how does such a force field "neutralize" the weight of the water? Under what scientific theory can weight be "neutralized"? We can offset a gravitational field with an electrical or electromagnetic field in limited applications such as the Lenz effect, but creating such an electric field will require more energy input than just offsetting the frictional losses.


"The water rises, with out being lifted, in the suction-pipe" Why does the water rise? Is it because it's being sucked up by a vacuum? Is it's because its weight has supposedly been neutralized by an electric field? Is it being forced up somehow and if so what's the power source that's forcing it up.

"From time to time, the water should be changed." Why?


Basically the description in the link you posted seems to be written by someone who is neither a scientist nor an engineer. So if Schauberger really did have an idea for a device which would do something, I don't think the author in the source can comprehend it well enough to explain it and perhaps alludes to this possibility in the preface of his explanation:

"Here's the break-down of the operation of the "Implosion Machine" as far as I can relate:"

Note the "as far as I can relate:" Either he's just not relating Schauberger's concept too well, or else Schauberger's concept is flawed, or both. This description looks like a lot of pseudoscience and not much science.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by Arbitrageur]

Schauberger did try to copy nature. Now he said about Newton and his law of gravitaition, he should have asked himself how the apple came up the tree in the first place.

That sounds like a very trivial question like a three year old would post. but realy, how does all that water and all the aple reach up in the tree without any pumps pressent? Somehow the tree is designt that makes water flow upward against the gravity, does it not?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The basic concept of Schauberger was discovered when he observed trout swimming upstream against the current without any effort! Here's how I describe it in my blogbook Deep Disharmony:

naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com...

Schauberger designed all his inventions based on the complimentary opposite resonance power of the hydro-carbon cycle. For example he observed that trout can easily project themselves upstream against rapid current by simply creating a vortex behind their dorsal fins. The power of this vortex is that in the center of the streams there lies a cold tunnel of water which has a very high natural electrical resistance and the pressure of the current plus the suction of the dorsel fin causes a reduction of resistance and drives the trout forward.

Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

The basic concept of Schauberger was discovered when he observed trout swimming upstream against the current without any effort!

Without any effort?

I've seen video of them swimming and it sure looks to me like it takes some effort! But I'm not doubting the ability of trout to swim upstream, however I am questioning the science involved in getting free energy from the device described.

Originally posted by RogerT
Anyway, doesn't this quote simply refer to the cooling effect being contradictory to an expected heating effect?

There is no such 'cooling' effect on an implosion, when applicable(because I'm not sure every implosion requires heat transfer in the way we are all thinking), energy is still transferred by means of heat from a high temperature region (everywhere around the imploding area) to a colder one (the center of the implosion?)

First of all, is this really in opposition to Thermodynamics or is this just a mistaken assertion by the author, or simply semantic confusion.

I wouldn't trust an author who gets simple physics concepts mixed up that easily, it's a clear sign that the deeper he goes, the more mistakes he is going to make.

One thing really bothers me....

a bunch of these guys (V.S, Tesla, Keely etc) show up around 50 - 150 years ago and demonstrate these energy technologies, using century old machining and materials, and not a single person, or even group of people, in our incredibly sophisticated societies of today can even get close!

Since you make no attempt to explain what the word 'these' means, I'll assume it means 'free energy'. There is absolutely no proof that the guys you mentioned ever demostrated a 'free energy' device. One thing that really bothers me is that Telsa was an exceptional scientist, not a god, but ATSrs seem to ignore this fact and give Tesla a bad name and spit on the work of hundreds of other scientists by giving Tesla credit for everything they think is cool.

You want real 'free energy'? Look up solar panels, look up wind turbines, look up water turbines, look up geothermal energy. All of it, free energy, but do you know the name of the guy who discovered solar cells? Do you know who discovered that moving magnets create electricity? I bet my honor that you can't name those guys without google searching or by looking into physics books if you own any, and even if you do, Tesla would still rank higher on your free energy idol list.

Originally posted by globuser777
I'm ashamed to say i'm not a doer

I have to quote this guy because what he said is important. Let us assume that by some miracle Schauberger's ideas are correct, and humanity is presented with yet another free energy device. What is going to happen in the world?

It's simple, people are not 'doers'. They will wait for someone to do it for them and pay that person. This is what we currently do with power companies. Why pay them when we have wind blowing and sun shining every day? It's not that we are dumb, but it is more convenient for us to do it that way. There will never be trully free energy.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


merlib.org...

Try this out.

Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by solosister

 

One thing really bothers me....

a bunch of these guys (V.S, Tesla, Keely etc) show up around 50 - 150 years ago and demonstrate these energy technologies, using century old machining and materials, and not a single person, or even group of people, in our incredibly sophisticated societies of today can even get close!

What's going on? Are these legendary folk unparalleled geniuses who kept their inspirations secret or are they simply myths??

Accepted, that not many 'modern' scientists/engineers are up for intuiting natures secrets of energy flow by watching fish swimming upstream, but really, not even one can follow the lead??

[edit on 7/4/10 by RogerT]

In the late 1880's, trade journals in the electrical sciences were predicting "free electricity" in the near future. Incredible discoveries about the nature of electricity were becoming common place.

Nikola Tesla was demonstrating "wireless lighting" and other wonders associated with high frequency currents. There was an excitement about the future like never before. Within 20 years, there would be automobiles, airplanes, movies, recorded music, telephones, radio, and practical cameras.

The Victorian Age was giving way to something totally new. For the first time in history, common people were encouraged to envision a utopian future, filled with abundant modern transportation and communication, as well as jobs, housing and food for everyone. Disease would be conquered, and so would poverty. Life was getting better, and this time, everyone was going to get "a piece of the pie."

So, what happened? In the midst of this technological explosion, where did the energy breakthroughs go? Was all of this excitement about "free electricity", which happened just before the beginning of the last century, all just wishful thinking that "real science" eventually disproved?

Read the rest, and discover why no one has perfected this technology. What you can do to get it off the ground...
here www.free-energy.ws...

This might explain in principle, the technology that the OP was describing.
"the repulsine."

I am very interested in this and I share the OP's interest and views on overunity.
The energy ios coming from "somewhere" but science hasn't yet discovered what that "somewhere" actually is and they describe it as anoloulous and then discard it.

This technology, if true. will resolve just about all man made crisis... if TPTB allow it and if reports are correct, they like to use a crisis th their advantage...

Enjoy