Undebunkable Ghostly Videos

Originally posted by Rising Against
... in regards to this rocking chair video my current stance is that it’s not paranormal.

*pouts*

Please tell me why the change of heart Rising Against?

Originally posted by Rising Against


I know you posted a reply to Mckyle so I hope you don’t mind me coming in and giving my opinion.

Ok so firstly I should make it clear I disagree with this….

I'd ask if the home was near a rail road or some other determinable vibrationary force which could cause an amplitude of alternating factors upon the floorboards which could cause a similar reaction upon a potential rocking mechanism placed there.

It’s a nice idea and yes it can explain supposed paranormal activity but I disagree with the idea of it being directly involved wit this case especially a railway because of these moments in the video.....

Family leave at 0.38

Rocking chair movement at 02:15
No outside noise and no movement of camera leading up to rocking chair movement

Also a prolonged movement forward from the rocking chair from 02:16 – 02:18

Rapid movement with a backwards and forwards motion from the rocking chair begins at 02:18

Rapidly slowed at 02:22

Fully Stopped at 02:26

Small movement at 02:34

Sudden jolt forward at 02:36

…Into backwards and forwards motion again.

Sudden stop at 02:45

Movement begins once again at 02:56

Stopped at 03:04

Small movement from camera at 03:21

Continued smaller movements from the camera

End of video at 04:59


It could be what you say but I think that this is just too random and it really does seem like someone is on this rocking chair and then suddenly at times jumping off as the chair seem to start after a prolonged jolt forward and again at times just stop and other times stop much much slower.


Also Here is the video once again.....

*MODS* Please forgive my huge quote, but the quoted material in it's entirety provides a very useful guide for scrutinising the video!


Mate, this is a very impressive breakdown of the key events in the rocking horse vid!

Kudos to you for taking the time to post this for the members. It will prove to be a useful guide for anyone who wants to take a closer analysis of the the video in question.

Excellent!

[edit on 9-4-2010 by mckyle]

reply to post by mckyle

*pouts*

Please tell me why the change of heart Rising Against?

I really should remember to remain as sceptical as I possibly can.

Although I do hope this is something paranormal and it's really caught my attention as of late so I have to thank you for that!

....but I haven't really seen anything that proves it to be so far.

Although in my opinion I 100% don’t believe it to be the railway or any trains etc. purely because of the way the rocking chair moves, how frequently it moves and also because of the camera movement leading up to and during the movement of the chair.

EDIT: See post above.

And thank you, hopefully it will prove helpful for others as it proved helpful for me in making up my mind about the railway theory.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Rising Against]

reply to post by mckyle


Also is it just me or does at the very beginning of the video when the kid asks who that is? Does he seem almost scared about what it is and tries to get away which in turn means him hurting himself?

At first he sees something which is very clear as he is looking around and then all of a sudden at one specific spot which he seems to be staring at.

Then after asking he looks at someone at the other side of the room and then straight back to the same spot he is asking about.

At this point he looks fearful to me and then seems to attempt to back away.

Could just be me I guess but I thought that was odd.

Although the camera only pans down a little bit so we don’t get a good look at what is there.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Rising Against]

reply to post by Rising Against


No problem at all mate

I would prefer you be an open-minded skeptic than someone who blindly accepts anything posted on ATS.

I have the benefit of knowing the people behind the video better than most of the people on this thread, and so I my assessment of the vids. credibility is based on certain things other than just what you see in the vid. So I completely understand, and even encourage skepticism towards the vid.

Nevertheless, I implore you to keep the possibility open that what you are seeing is something very special indeed!

[edit on 9-4-2010 by mckyle]

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by mckyle

 

Also is it just me or does at the very beginning of the video when the kid asks who that is? Does he seem almost scared about what it is and tries to get away which in turn means him hurting himself?

Very perceptive of you.

We discussed this point, and we concluded that perhaps - and I say perhaps - the little boy saw the something/somebody that was soon to be riding the rocking horse. Nobody else in the room, saw the 'thing' the little boy was referring to. Strange!!!

reply to post by mckyle


Indeed, I find it especially strange that he seems to (something which I never posted I my previous post) follow something ever so slightly move to his right but he is fixated on it.

Looks away (I’m assuming) to someone at the other side of the room with a look of being confused.

Looks back to the same spot and IMO looks to back away or at least move off of the rocking chair with somewhat of a fearfulness about him and then in turn hurting himself in the process.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by mckyle

 

Indeed, I find it especially strange that he seems to (something which I never posted I my previous post) follow something ever so slightly move to his right but he is fixated on it.

Looks away (I’m assuming) to someone at the other side of the room with a look of being confused.

Looks back to the same spot and IMO looks to back away or at least move off of the rocking chair with somewhat of a fearfulness about him and then in turn hurting himself in the process.

An extra large serving of kudos to you

You've picked up on some very subtle gestures and actions by the little boy, than many people initially missed. The most revealing moment - and one that still sends a shiver up my spine - is when the little boy says: "what's that?", or "who's that?" It's a sobering moment in my opinion.

reply to post by Rising Against


Something I forgot to point out too, which is potentially significant - depending on whether one accepts it or not as being true, is the fact that there were stories of a child ghost being seen around the building on different occasions.

Now, for me, all I can say is that that is interesting, but of no real consequence to what I am trying to understand and analyse here.

Unfortunately, there are many who would try and use this information to leverage their argument. However, I think we can only go so far without losing credibility to those more skeptical. Again, this is the 'grey' area we encounter far too often when looking at such events.

Originally posted by mckyle

This of course is not scientific in the slightest, and this is where the trouble starts. However, I think to ignore such factors has the very real potential to hide some very extraordinary events.

It could be scientific as in natural observations. We all know the lab is the best place to control confounding, but that same control inhibits natural action, and so one must jump back and forth working with both to try and get to the facts or truth.

With the rocking horse was this a onetime event or an event that repeated? It would have been fantastic if they had the frame of mind to invite outside sources (local university?) to reproduce the same results. We are basically talking actions outside of the laws of physics here, and so a rather huge event even when we are talking about the rocking of a toy horse.

Originally posted by mckyle
reply to post by Rising Against

 

Something I forgot to point out too, which is potentially significant - depending on whether one accepts it or not as being true, is the fact that there were stories of a child ghost being seen around the building on different occasions.

Now, for me, all I can say is that that is interesting, but of no real consequence to what I am trying to understand and analyse here.

Unfortunately, there are many who would try and use this information to leverage their argument. However, I think we can only go so far without losing credibility to those more skeptical. Again, this is the 'grey' area we encounter far too often when looking at such events.

One thing I have never really understood is why people don’t setup very long observations in areas with lots of ghost observations. In today's age we can video tape for days on end, unlike in the past where movies/pictures were limited time and costly.

Take the Ghost Hunters as example. Even though they are a show I would think a month or longer investigation of only one place would give them a much better chance, or even if a group spent years in one place. It’s not like ghost move around so one place haunted is as good as 100 places, but the different is a continued monitoring of the same situation over a very long period of time.

This would be about as easy as installing many cameras/mics for a long period of time and just play back at high speed looking for movement/sound. I don't know of any long term investigations, it just seems people want to do something once or monitor a place for just a short time.

Hey guys - good open minded thinking all-round by everyone - perhaps we should direct Foofey believers here to show that there are areas where sceptics challenge the paranormal with an acceptance of the unexplainable.

Now back to basics here. Why is the camera pointing directly at the rocking horse and still running after establishing that it was ridden by that young boy earlier?

The cut of the video just makes me query how legitimate it is - As if it was a known phenomenon which was recorded on purpose.

The back 'legs' of the rocking horse connect directly to the wall and are supported by the front legs which make contact with the ground. Any movement at each end (floor boards and/or rear wall) would make the rocking horse move by way of compensation - certainly an interesting thing and worth documenting; hence the camera.

I realise McKyle that you know these people and don't wish to impinge upon their respectability but is it possible that they orchestrated this video knowing prior to the event what occurs?

-m0r

Originally posted by Xtrozero

It could be scientific as in natural observations. We all know the lab is the best place to control confounding, but that same control inhibits natural action, and so one must jump back and forth working with both to try and get to the facts or truth.

Hi Xtrozero

My aplogies for my tardy response.

I totally agree: it would be great to construct/find an environment where we could avoid hindering the phenomena, whilst scientifically observing and recording data. Unfortunately, this would seem a near impossible balance, based mostly on fiscal restraints of researchers.

It does afterall cost money to hang around with a lot of expensive equippmet waiting for something that may or may not, actually exist or be present.

There is however, one example I am aware of, where an academic, Dr. Jason Braithwaite of Birmingham University, has been conducting an ongoing study of the hauntings of Muncaster Castle - a project, I believe has extended over several years.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

With the rocking horse was this a onetime event or an event that repeated? It would have been fantastic if they had the frame of mind to invite outside sources (local university?) to reproduce the same results. We are basically talking actions outside of the laws of physics here, and so a rather huge event even when we are talking about the rocking of a toy horse.

It happened on a number of occasions - most of which were not recorded. The reason being, was that the parents for at least several nights, believed it was the little boy getting up to mischief. It was only when they realised that the little boy was genuinely asleep during the midnight romps, that they decided to setup a recorder to see what the source actually was.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by mckyle]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

One thing I have never really understood is why people don’t setup very long observations in areas with lots of ghost observations. In today's age we can video tape for days on end, unlike in the past where movies/pictures were limited time and costly.

My thoughts exactly!

A strategy could be to identify several alleged hotspots and set up a comprehensive video, audio, and spectrographic monitoring system, 24/7.

Perhaps it would be a long wait - assuming we are dealing with something legitimate in the first place. But, if something concrete - something verifiable, and scientifically measurable, could be recorded, just imagine the ramifications such an incident could have.

My personal choice would be The Treasurer's House, York, which is the focus of this very interesting documatray:


Here is Part 2, although the first part is the most interesting - in my opinion:


This incident is worthy of serious consideration in my opinion, because of several things:

* the witness' character
* the the esoteric knowledge displayed by the witness, which initially baffled academics

Please let me know what you think, and M0r1arty, please have a look as well mate, if you have the time

PS. Rising Against - please forgive my absent-mindedness: please check out the above documentary if you have time I would enjoy hearing your thoughts.




[edit on 10-4-2010 by mckyle]

reply to post by mckyle


I agree, once the initial cost and equipment is in place the monitoring and upkeep would be minimal.

I have come up with a great idea…. Pick a haunted place such as your suggestion and setup for a long term observation of many cameras and mics and then establish a website streaming live and past recording of everything. Charge $5 a month access and watch the 1000s come and just stare doing all the research for you. The money you make would easily pay for initial cost, upkeep, future projects and maybe your retirement...hehe



[edit on 10-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by mckyle

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by mckyle

 

Also is it just me or does at the very beginning of the video when the kid asks who that is? Does he seem almost scared about what it is and tries to get away which in turn means him hurting himself?

Very perceptive of you.

We discussed this point, and we concluded that perhaps - and I say perhaps - the little boy saw the something/somebody that was soon to be riding the rocking horse. Nobody else in the room, saw the 'thing' the little boy was referring to. Strange!!!

The rocking horse video seems pretty believable to me. I have always been a skeptic and probably will be until I experience something paranormal for myself, but I like to keep an open mind and think that surely every "ghost story" can't be a lie!

I have heard that little kids can see ghosts or spirits, or whatever they would be considered. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know a family here who had a little boy who was around 2 years old when they moved into a different house. The parents would hear him talking to someone in his room and when they asked him who he was talking to, he would say "Geef". Then point and say "He's right there". Of course no one else saw anything. This went on for quite some time and their suspicions of an imaginary friend faded as he became more determined that Geef was there. Sometimes their son would say he was scared.

Once while sitting down to dinner, their son looked up and said, "They're here!" When asked who and where, he said "them - right there" and looked at the parents like they were crazy for not seeing "them" sitting across the table.

Strange things continued to happen until the boy was about 4, then he didn't see Geef anymore and before long it was like he had never existed. The boy, who is 9 yrs old now, has never mentioned him again and doesn't seem to remember.

This family had another son 5 years ago. When he was about the same age (2) his grandmother was rocking him and he looked up and pointed into the bedroom that the boys shared and said, "Geef!"

He didn't seem to be affected the same was as his older brother, and nothing more ever came of it.

The dad won't even entertain the thought that there might be ghosts, but the mom still wonders.

It's too bad there is no video to back this up.

I have never witness any strange paranormal activity, but talking about kids that may see things we can’t I was reminded of one of my sons who at the age of 2 I found standing up in his crib looking in the corner of the room scared stiff and screaming. When my wife picked him up she moved somewhat in the direction he was looking at and he fought her with all his might to get away. I took him away from the room and he calmed down after that. He seemed to be awake the whole time and I remember thinking how can a young child have ideas of such terror when there has never been anything in this short life to explain it.

In any case a very spooky event….

This isn't a video capturing a ghost but it does show some great photographs of spirits caught on film. There is also some weird mist that goes by in the video.

Creepy Photo - Video

reply to post by WhatTheHeck


I agree with the statement about about children being able to see spirits. When I was around 4 years old, I was visited every night by the deceased owner of our house. My mom didn't understand why I would start screaming in the middle of the night while my brother was in the next room sleeping soundly. I would ask her why she came up stairs late at night and either go into my brother's room or the room I slept in. I guess it was because I was young and "closer to the other side" as my mom put it. No one else had any problems in the house except me.

reply to post by m0r1arty

Originally posted by m0r1arty
Hey guys - good open minded thinking all-round by everyone - perhaps we should direct Foofey believers here to show that there are areas where sceptics challenge the paranormal with an acceptance of the unexplainable.

Agreed!

ATS seems to have the copious quantities of polarized mindsets, yet a dearth of members who are – as you said – willing to ‘accept the unexplainable’ or the possibility thereof. Sometimes arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand too often when material is presented. And sometimes, that’s a shame.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

Now back to basics here. Why is the camera pointing directly at the rocking horse and still running after establishing that it was ridden by that young boy earlier?

What you’re seeing there is the initial setup of the vid, and the father is just testing it. You’ll notice after that, there’s a cut, and that’s when we start viewing the incident in question. That happens sometime later that evening, from memory.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

The cut of the video just makes me query how legitimate it is - As if it was a known phenomenon which was recorded on purpose.

It’s a good point to raise mate. However, what happened was that the parents ended up with literally hours of tape, and what we’re seeing here is just a short snippet of the action. All tape is accounted for – as far as I know – and we’re actually looking at about 12 hours of tape in existence. Now at first, we all jumped and said, there might be more interesting stuff. However, my understanding is that Bill (SkepticOverlord), went through all the original stuff with DancedwithWolves, and as far as I know, no more interesting footage was taped. You might want to check that with RisingAgainst, as I believe he was going to U2U Bill about this pioint.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

The back 'legs' of the rocking horse connect directly to the wall and are supported by the front legs which make contact with the ground. Any movement at each end (floor boards and/or rear wall) would make the rocking horse move by way of compensation - certainly an interesting thing and worth documenting; hence the camera.

I see what you’re getting at, and of course, we need to look at every possible angle when delaing with such extraordinary events. However, I feel we discount any external forces that would contribute to the movement for two reasons:
• Any large vibration, would have to be set off by something very large – as in heavy-vehicles, or natural phenomena - such as earthquakes. Had either of those been the case, we would have undoubtedly seen and heard the whole room being subject to loud noise and vibrations. Ie – it wouldn’t be – in probability – focused just on the horse.
• Also, what are the chances that the rocking horse was perfectly aligned with the direction of the vibrational forces to make it rock in such a natural-looking way?

Originally posted by m0r1arty

I realise McKyle that you know these people and don't wish to impinge upon their respectability but is it possible that they orchestrated this video knowing prior to the event what occurs?

It’s a question that has to be asked mate, so I fully understand why that crossed your mind.

I guess my answer is, that anything is possible when it comes to human nature. Sometimes we are surprised by our best friends, to the point where we start to doubt our own grip on reality.

People are very capable of lies and deceit and carrying off such actions in a very convincing and creditable way. That’s why we have to scrutinize every possible angle of the individual, such as: motivation, previous history, any antecedents, character, and any verbal inconsistencies.
In this case, DancedwithWolves comes up trumps in every category - at least as far as I know. During my time on that thread with her, and my correspondence, all I can say is that she came across as an honest person, who was well-respected on ATS, who was not seeking financial gain, and who had kept in her possession, this tape for a period of more than twelve years!!!

Now to me, if a person was to seek personal gain from a tape of this nature, they wouldn’t be sitting on it for twelve years. Indeed, if there was a time to make substantial profit off something like this, it was indeed before the internet!

In my humble opinion, what we’re looking at is a family, who experienced something, not only legitimate, but very extraordinary. Perhaps, one of the most exceptional examples of legitimate phenomena, caught on tape in the last twenty years or more. And, we’ve been fortunate enough to have it shared with us.