Wikileaks Video Released!!

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

Why is it far fetched? You seen the video of him standing and walking, interacting with the insurgents like hes a member of the group. Shouldn't he be far away from them? Sneaking a peek around the corner to take a photo of a Humvee raises suspicion. Way too suspicious.

Which ones were found guilty of being insurgents? I missed that in any of the coverage of this.

This is horrific.This is pure unadulterated proof of the atrocities being committed in Iraq,for the moneymen.

What i find really distressing is the attitude of the aircrew when they realise they have just shot two kids.They just don't care.

God help America. You really are in deep doodoo

U.S. Soldier on 2007 Apache Attack: What I Saw

McCord, who served five years in the military before leaving in the summer of 2009 due to injuries, recently posted an apologetic letter online with fellow soldier Josh Steiber supporting the release of the video and asking the family’s forgiveness. McCord is the father of three children.

Wired’s Kim Zetter reached McCord at his home in Kansas. This is his account of what he saw.

Wired.com: At the time you arrived on the scene, you didn’t know what had happened, is that right?

Ethan McCord: Right. We were engaged in our own conflict roughly about three or four blocks away. We heard the gunships open up. [Then] we were just told … to move to this [other] location. It was pretty much a shock when we got there to see what had happened, the carnage and everything else.

Wired.com: But you had been in combat before. It shouldn’t have surprised you what you saw.

McCord: I have never seen anybody being shot by a 30-millimeter round before. It didn’t seem real, in the sense that it didn’t look like human beings. They were destroyed.

Wired.com: Was anyone moving when you got there other than the two children?

McCord: There were approximately two to three other people who were moving who were still somewhat alive, and the medics were attending to them.

Wired.com: The first thing you saw was the little girl in the van. She had a stomach wound?

McCord: She had a stomach wound and she had glass in her eyes and in her hair. She was crying. In fact, that’s one of the reasons I went to the van immediately, because I could hear her crying. It wasn’t like a cry of pain really. It was more of a child who was frightened out of her mind. And the next thing I saw was the boy…. He was kind of sitting on the floorboard of the van, but with his head laying on the bench seat in the front. And then the father, who I’m assuming was the father, in the driver’s seat slumped over on his side. Just from looking into the van, and the amount of blood that was on the boy and the father, I immediately figured they were dead.

So, the first thing I did was grab the girl. I grabbed the medic and we went into the back. There’s houses behind where the van was. We took her in there and we’re checking to see if there were any other wounds. You can hear the medic saying on the video, “There’s nothing I can do here, she needs to be evac’d.” He runs the girl to the Bradley. I went back outside to the van, and that’s when the boy took, like, a labored, breath. That’s when I started screaming, “The boy’s alive! The boy’s alive!” And I picked him up and started running with him over to the Bradley. He opened his eyes when I was carrying him. I just kept telling him, “Don’t die; don’t die.” He looked at me, then his eyes rolled back into this head.

Then I got yelled at by my platoon leader that I needed to stop trying to save these mf’n kids and go pull security…. I was told to go pull security on a rooftop. When we were on that roof, we were still taking fire. There were some people taking pot shots, sniper shots, at us on the rooftop. We were probably there on the roof for another four to five hours.

Wired.com: How much sniper fire were you getting?

McCord: It was random sporadic spurts. I did see a guy … moving from a rooftop from one position to another with an AK-47, who was firing at us. He was shot and killed.

After the incident, we went back to the FOB [forward operating base] and that’s when I was in my room. I had blood all down the front of me from the children. I was trying to wash it off in my room. I was pretty distraught over the whole situation with the children. So I went to a sergeant and asked to see [the mental health person], because I was having a hard time dealing with it. I was called a pussy and that I needed to suck it up and a lot of other horrible things. I was also told that there would be repercussions if I was to go to mental health.

Wired.com: What did you understand that to mean?

McCord: I would be smoked. Smoked is basically like you’re doing pushups a lot, you’re doing sit-ups … crunches and flutter kicks. They’re smoking you, they’re making you tired. I was told that I needed to get the sand out of my vagina…. So I just sucked it up and tried to move on with everything.

I’ve lived with seeing the children that way since the incident happened. I’ve had nightmares. I was diagnosed with chronic, severe PTSD. [But] I was actually starting to get kind of better. … I wasn’t thinking about it as much. [Then I] took my children to school one day and I came home and sat down on the couch and turned on the TV with my coffee, and on the news I’m running across the screen with a child. The flood of emotions came back. I know the scene by heart; it’s burned into my head. I know the van, I know the faces of everybody that was there that day.

Wired.com: Did you try to get information about the two children after the shooting?

McCord: My platoon sergeant knew that I was having a hard time with it and that same night … he came into the room and he told me, hey, just so you know, both of the children survived, so you can suck it up now. I didn’t know if he was telling me that just to get me to shut up and to do my job or if he really found something out. I always questioned it in the back of my mind.

I did see a video on YouTube after the Wikileaks [video] came out, of the children being interviewed. … When I saw their faces, I was relieved, but I was just heartbroken. I have a huge place in my heart for children, having some of my own. Knowing that I was part of the system that took their father away from them and made them lose their house … it’s heartbreaking. And that in turn is what helped me and Josh write the letter, hoping that it would find its way to them to let them know that we’re sorry. We’re sorry for the system that we were involved in that took their father’s life and injured them. If there’s anything I can to do help, I would be more than happy to.

Wired.com: Wikileaks presented the incident as though there was no engagement from insurgents. But you guys did have a firefight a couple of blocks away. Was it reasonable for the Apache soldiers to think that maybe the people they attacked were part of that insurgent firefight?

McCord: I doubt that they were a part of that firefight. However, when I did come up on the scene, there was an RPG as well as AK-47s there…. You just don’t walk around with an RPG in Iraq, especially three blocks away from a firefight…. Personally, I believe the first attack on the group standing by the wall was appropriate, was warranted by the rules of engagement. They did have weapons there. However, I don’t feel that the attack on the [rescue] van was necessary.

Now, as far as rules of engagement, [Iraqis] are not supposed to pick up the wounded. But they could have been easily deterred from doing what they were doing by just firing simply a few warning shots in the direction…. Instead, the Apaches decided to completely obliterate everybody in the van. That’s the hard part to swallow.

And where the soldier said [in the video], “Well, you shouldn’t take your kids to battle.” Well in all actuality, we brought the battle to your kids. There’s no front lines here. This is urban combat and we’re taking the war to children and women and innocents.

There were plenty of times in the past where other insurgents would come by and pick up the bodies, and then we’d have no evidence or anything to what happened, so in looking at it from the Apache’s point of view, they were thinking that [someone was] picking up the weapons and bodies; when, in hindsight, clearly they were picking up the wounded man. But you’re not supposed to do that in Iraq.

Wired.com: Civilians are supposed to know that they’re not supposed to pick up a wounded person crawling in the road?

McCord: Yeah. This is the problem that we’re speaking out on as far as the rules of engagement. How is this guy supposed to [decide] should I stop and pick them up, or is the military going to shoot me? If you or I saw someone wounded on the ground what is your first inkling? I’m going to help that person.

Wired.com: There was another attack depicted in the video that has received little attention, involving a Hellfire and a building that was fired on.

Read More www.wired.com...

Originally posted by K J Gunderson




Which ones were found guilty of being insurgents? I missed that in any of the coverage of this.

McCord: I doubt that they were a part of that firefight. However, when I did come up on the scene, there was an RPG as well as AK-47s there…. You just don’t walk around with an RPG in Iraq, especially three blocks away from a firefight…. Personally, I believe the first attack on the group standing by the wall was appropriate, was warranted by the rules of engagement. They did have weapons there. However, I don’t feel that the attack on the [rescue] van was necessary.

Embarrassing revelations there. Tsk Tsk.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by K J Gunderson




Which ones were found guilty of being insurgents? I missed that in any of the coverage of this.

McCord: I doubt that they were a part of that firefight. However, when I did come up on the scene, there was an RPG as well as AK-47s there…. You just don’t walk around with an RPG in Iraq, especially three blocks away from a firefight…. Personally, I believe the first attack on the group standing by the wall was appropriate, was warranted by the rules of engagement. They did have weapons there. However, I don’t feel that the attack on the [rescue] van was necessary.

Embarrassing revelations there. Tsk Tsk.

Embarrassing for whom? All you did was prove that the answer was.......



....NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM.

I guess it is embarrassing for you to post evidence refuting your position?

Its just inhumane its sad to what people in this world have become the ones who we put trust in and they just cast it aside. If that was in America it would be worldwide news, actually it already happened, 9/11 and they got pissed and are now killing indiscriminatly in the middle east hundreds of thousands are dead because america cant take what they get.
This really sets the example doesn't it you can kill whoever you want and get away with it once that nationality has done something to your country

Originally posted by kiv-93
Its just inhumane its sad to what people in this world have become the ones who we put trust in and they just cast it aside. If that was in America it would be worldwide news, actually it already happened, 9/11 and they got pissed and are now killing indiscriminatly in the middle east hundreds of thousands are dead because america cant take what they get.
This really sets the example doesn't it you can kill whoever you want and get away with it once that nationality has done something to your country

Nationality? well you do realize that they kill American soldiers over there. but the big difference is that we don't take our kids onto the battlefield.

Originally posted by tempesillest

Originally posted by kiv-93
Its just inhumane its sad to what people in this world have become the ones who we put trust in and they just cast it aside. If that was in America it would be worldwide news, actually it already happened, 9/11 and they got pissed and are now killing indiscriminatly in the middle east hundreds of thousands are dead because america cant take what they get.
This really sets the example doesn't it you can kill whoever you want and get away with it once that nationality has done something to your country

Nationality? well you do realize that they kill American soldiers over there. but the big difference is that we don't take our kids onto the battlefield.

No we don't. We stay home and send them to die.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Didn't you read, the soldier says you don't walk around with an rpg which it was revealed. Don't be mad. I understand that it kind of hurts.

reply to post by DopesickRenegade


Responsible war is finding out if the people your mowing down from the air are actually combatants, and oh, I don't know, giving them a chance to stand down. If the people on the ground had had guns, the soldiers would have still been able to kill them before they could have fired on them.
Seemed like a case of "there's some people, lets kill them".

Sad to hear that the brass decided to just execute suspected resistance members when they had troops a few blocks away that could have easily captured them. Lack of bravery and morals abounds.

thats like embedding yourself with the germans in WWII, sucks it happened, but why they hanging out with insurgents. they shouldnt have gambled with their life like that. that war is under a microscope of very high technology.

this is one of many situations. i write military articles and see so much stuff like this.

Graphic Warning, this site gets all public war footage.
Apache Clips
T-Shirt about that video


[edit on 25-4-2010 by werk71]

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Didn't you read, the soldier says you don't walk around with an rpg which it was revealed. Don't be mad. I understand that it kind of hurts.

I read and watched the video. You are apparently having a hard time reading so I better ask you one more time. Which ones were found to be insurgents afterwards?

Do not presume to know what hurts me. What hurts is watching people be so blindly dedicated to a stand that even simple logical questions are like a short circuit to them and they try as hard as they can to hold on to misconception with a flimsy tool like distraction or deflection.

Now that hurts.

Now for a bonus question...where did they find said RPG?

[edit on 25-4-2010 by K J Gunderson]

here's an interview of Eathan mcCord on his appology and some of his views.

shown on Lateline on 29/4/2010, from 6.40 onwards in the show.
www.abc.net.au...#/view/556905
look under news and current affairs for the lateline videos.

sad to think that innocent people can be hurt by experienced soldiers on duty, but it is afterall a war of sorts and things like this can and do happen.

here's another link,
www.abc.net.au...



[edit on 29-4-2010 by redgy]

Originally posted by redgy
here's an interview of Eathan mcCord on his appology and some of his views.

shown on Lateline on 29/4/2010, from 6.40 onwards in the show.
www.abc.net.au...#/view/556905
look under news and current affairs for the lateline videos.

sad to think that innocent people can be hurt by experienced soldiers on duty, but it is afterall a war of sorts and things like this can and do happen.

Just curious here but who decides it is war and that makes it ok?

If another country attacked the US and started killing people inside of its borders and someone you know or care about gets killed, which would you say...

1-It is war and that is what happens. Get a shovel.

or

2-Holy crap another country is attacking us and killing our people! Get a gun!

It sounds all nice and good to call it war but I see no uniformed troops in the video.

As a former aircrew member who has been trained to deal with a situation like this... I offer my two cents.

There were weapons in that group. There is no denying that. There were also journalist in that group. It's unfortunate that they got mixed up in all of it... but there were in a group of armed men... I'm sure they knew there was a possibility that something bad could happen.

In a situation such as this the SOP does not require the combatants to fire on the aircraft. There was an ARMED group of people acting suspiciously in an area where military operations were currently happening. That gives the aircraft enough reason to engage.

As far as the van goes. Quite often after an engagement such as this... other members of the group will go in and collect the wounded so they cant be interrogated and they will collect weapons so they can be used again and so they can try to hide evidence of what the group was doing. It's also not uncommon insurgents often bring younger members of their family along for the ride.

Now with that said... I'm not defending either side here. I'm just presenting facts as I see them based on my training and experience. I don't agree with the attitude the crew members showed toward the situation. I found it rather offensive. I also don't agree with the governments attempts on trying to downplay it. I surely don't agree with a bunch of untrained people on this board calling these guys murders when you only have a video to watch and sure as hell don't have all the facts to make such a severe accusation.

For those of whom have never served, casualties are a part of war~
Sorry to tell ya, if your a reporter, or any other for that matter, and you put yourself in harms way, its your fault you found yourself extinct!

No bleeding hearted liberal in this camp, s*&t happens, get over it! Atleast the military took action on an alleged group of terrorists. Like I said, accidents happen, especially in war~

Click here for more information.

That was interesting.

There is nothing earth shattering here accept that ATS and WikiLeaks has the Stupidity to air this publicly not to mention the fools who made the video.

You just told The Enemy everything they want to hear. That Americans are pigs, with no emotions who kill their own indiscriminately.

Shame on ATS, WikiLeaks and the people who made this film. You don't air our military's dirty laundry to the Enemy.

It is unfortunate that these two journalist were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But.. They knew the risks.

The shooters in the helicopter could not see the children in the van from their vantage point. Only the zoom was employed after the tapes were released. Could they have zoomed in before they shot and identified children? I do not know. Would it have made a difference? No. They still would have had to fire on the enemy vehicle.

The one solider was right, you don't bring children to a war zone.

I applaud these men who followed their training and did what they had to do to protect American lives.

I am anti war. I hated that we were there and believe we should not have been there in the first place. But that was not my choice to make. Once our boys were thrown into that hellish situation under orders they had to act accordingly.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Which ones were found guilty of being insurgents? I missed that in any of the coverage of this.

Its hilarious how guys like you act like they know what they're talking about. Did you somehow miss all the guy in the video with RPGs and AK47s?