Why are Europeans De-Pigmented, or what you would call white?

knol.google.com...#

The Puzzle: Northern Europeans are Uniquely Depigmented "White," of course, is a a social designation. The question really is, "Why are northern Europeans depigmented?" Here is a map of human skin tone. The natives of northern Europe are oddly light-skinned. They are paler than anyone else on earth. Most people know that it has something to do with sunlight, UV, latitude, and vitamin D. Here is a map of solar UV at the surface taken from satellite. It matches the skin-tone map everywhere but Europe. The closer you are to the equator, the darker your skin. This is because humans are extraordinarily sensitive to sunlight on the

I strongly encourage anyone, regardless of culture or geographical origin to click the link and read this very intriguing write-up.

Thanks for this!!

A very informative read, I am glad you posted it!

Thanks mate. Yet another link suggesting we may not all be from a common ancestor, even an earth based anscestor?. Still we are all one race, the human race.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Agreed. Right now we need to be the human race and unite, but it does raise the question...is everybody on earth fromearth?

Only time will tell.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
Thanks mate. Yet another link suggesting we may not all be from a common ancestor, even an earth based anscestor?. Still we are all one race, the human race.

Did we read the same article? Cuz what I read was a fine case for Natural Selection based upon climate and food...where is the suggestion of anything else, or I'm I just not fully caffeinated?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by polarwarrior
Thanks mate. Yet another link suggesting we may not all be from a common ancestor, even an earth based anscestor?. Still we are all one race, the human race.

Did we read the same article? Cuz what I read was a fine case for Natural Selection based upon climate and food...where is the suggestion of anything else, or I'm I just not fully caffeinated?

Nothing in there suggested anything else, I do have views from time to time that don't come from that one particular article.

Excellent link, thanks.

Please bear with me and help me understand this.

People with a white skin are all of North European descent and have white skin due to a need to absorb more sunlight because of a lack of Vitamin D in their diet?

I tried to read the Wiki page on the subject but got somewhat lost with some of it but it does appear to support your link.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now I'm not dismissing the theory that the human race may have some sort of alien lineage / ancestry but where does it suggest it in the article?

reply to post by Freeborn


It doesn't. That's a notion that's been going around for a long time. And unsubstantiated theory really, but an intriguing idea to entertain nonetheless. We don't need to get carried away with that though, as the regular story is interesting enough without adding to it.

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy


I am well aware of alien ancestor theories and have contributed to several threads on the subject here on ATS.
I just wondered if I'd missed something in the article and also wouldn't like to see this thread derailed as it has the potential to be very informative.

My only question is surely the diet of Nordic peoples who concentrated around the seashores and fjords etc would have had as much fish in their diet as the Innuit etc yet they developed white skin, blond hair etc and the latter maintained their darker pigmentation?

Originally posted by Freeborn

My only question is surely the diet of Nordic peoples who concentrated around the seashores and fjords etc would have had as much fish in their diet as the Innuit etc yet they developed white skin, blond hair etc and the latter maintained their darker pigmentation?

Good thought, but I think just off the cuff, that grain was the issue. Fat and blubber are mainstays of the traditional Innuit diet and the question might be how much vitamin D is to be found there:

Recent research has identified that blubber from whales and seals contains both Omega-3 fatty acids and Vitamin D.[12] Without the Vitamin D, for example, the Inuit and other natives of the Arctic would likely suffer from rickets. There is evidence that the blubber and other fats in the Northern diet also provide the calories needed to replace the lack of carbohydrates found in the diets of cultures in the rest of the world. en.wikipedia.org...

So I think we come back to natural selection, based upon the diet.

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy


This is a very interesting and controversial topic. I have been in several conversations with individuals about the term "race" as they attempt to assure me that they are not racists. In my opinion that comment, "I am not a racist", is generally a racist comment. For this reason I have a difficult time with the US Census because I believe we are all of the same race, Human, or that which is born of this Earth. Our genetic connections or the question of our possible alien origin is another topic. We are all born of this Earth and therefore we are all connected, i.e. brothers.

The differing races, or nomenclature of humans, was an invention for the separating of people for the purpose of concurring. All men are created equal in the eyes of God and those that lower themselves for the purpose of power and control are less. Power is thus an illusion because we must give up that which is far more valuable in order to gain this power. This is not an easy concept to understand by many because it goes against what we all have been taught but I see it as the truth none-the-less.

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy

 

This is a very interesting and controversial topic. I have been in several conversations with individuals about the term "race" as they attempt to assure me that they are not racists. In my opinion that comment, "I am not a racist", is generally a racist comment. For this reason I have a difficult time with the US Census because I believe we are all of the same race, Human, or that which is born of this Earth. Our genetic connections or the question of our possible alien origin is another topic. We are all born of this Earth and therefore we are all connected, i.e. brothers.

The differing races, or nomenclature of humans, was an invention for the separating of people for the purpose of concurring. All men are created equal in the eyes of God and those that lower themselves for the purpose of power and control are less. Power is thus an illusion because we must give up that which is far more valuable in order to gain this power. This is not an easy concept to understand by many because it goes against what we all have been taught but I see it as the truth none-the-less.

Well, scientifically, race doesn't and has never existed. And this thread ain't about who is and who isn't a racist. Race is again, a social construct, and a way to identify one's self by expressing a cultural background. It's not one I use to identify though, as I don't belong to any of the races.

Anyway, let's not derail the thread by making this a race issue.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Read the full story the article is taken from. They admit the explanations are not satisfactory for all depigmentation.

From the conclusion,

One would expect Europeans to have a light brown complexion like everyone else at or above 55 degrees. One would expect equatorial Native Americans to be dark brown. The puzzle does not exist in a multiregional evolution scenario because MRE explains differences as either primordial (Coon 1962) or the result of differing duration of residence (Brace 2000)

Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Read the full story the article is taken from. They admit the explanations are not satisfactory for all depigmentation.

True...and if you look at Persians, or East Asians, that are not tanned, their skin can look downright porcelain.

So we can all add a resounding chorus of "Well, I donno, ya know?"

Hardly de-pigmented.
We'd be albino if that was true.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Freeborn
My only question is surely the diet of Nordic peoples who concentrated around the seashores and fjords etc would have had as much fish in their diet as the Innuit etc yet they developed white skin, blond hair etc and the latter maintained their darker pigmentation?

Good thought, but I think just off the cuff, that grain was the issue. Fat and blubber are mainstays of the traditional Innuit diet and the question might be how much vitamin D is to be found there:

Recent research has identified that blubber from whales and seals contains both Omega-3 fatty acids and Vitamin D.[12] Without the Vitamin D, for example, the Inuit and other natives of the Arctic would likely suffer from rickets. There is evidence that the blubber and other fats in the Northern diet also provide the calories needed to replace the lack of carbohydrates found in the diets of cultures in the rest of the world. en.wikipedia.org...

So I think we come back to natural selection, based upon the diet.

Did you not notice what you just posted lends credence to what is being asked? Fat (fish, animals) would be available to people in the Baltic region too, not just grain. You read the article right?

Otherwise it's an interesting theory, definitely thought-out and could possibly be correct, but I'll keep an eye out for more direct evidence to support it.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by bsbray11]

We've all seen the black people who suddenly and rapidly turn white,

but has there ever been a white person that suddenly and rapidly turned black?

I don't think so.
It is odd that the human seems to want to be white.
Or is it a defect?!

If it is a defect to be white, then I WANT FREE MONEY because I'm broken! I want stuff for free and I want it now!



[edit on 5-4-2010 by Cabaret Voltaire]

Originally posted by bsbray11
Did you not notice what you just posted lends credence to what is being asked? Fat (fish, animals) would be available to people in the Baltic region too, not just grain. You read the article right?

You read my posting, right? If you follow the link, it says:

Blubber is a thick layer of vascularized fat found under the skin of all cetaceans, pinnipeds and sirenians en.wikipedia.org...

...which speaks to the difference in the Innuit and European diets.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Only a few foods naturally contain significant amounts of vitamin D, including fatty fish and fish oils 4.

ibdcrohns.about.com...


The area still had access to vitamin D through fishing or other animals on the mainland. Those parts of Europe aren't barren wastelands.

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Only a few foods naturally contain significant amounts of vitamin D, including fatty fish and fish oils 4.

ibdcrohns.about.com...


The area still had access to vitamin D through fishing or other animals on the mainland. Those parts of Europe aren't barren wastelands.

The key appears to be the addition of grain to the diet in...what?...the Neolithic?, which is the essential difference from the Innuit diet. The question had been, why did the Northern Europeans have less melanin, while the northern Innuit had more? Further, if memory serves, the Lapps aren't of the blue eyed, blond hair variety. Would it be fair to say that Europe became peopled by a group with those characteristics, even as a recessive gene, and let natural selection and genetic drift do the rest?

Either that, or a cave man mated with an alien, eh?