Jewish Talmud - Making hitler proud

The Talmud is considered the holiest of texts for the Jewish religion, written in 200 AD and modified around 500 AD. It was derived from oral teachings passed down from Moses' day and includes God's 613 Laws to the Jews and a discussion on these laws.

The Talmud and its teachings, like the Bible and the Koran, are practised by many of its followers today.

As you read through some of the "613 Laws" below, ask yourself if you see any of this being reflected in and around Israel today? Perhaps by some Ultra orthodox settlers? Perhaps by some ultra national political party? Why has this doctrine been banned throughout the ages? Could an attitude be derived from this that is preventing peace in the Middle East?


1) Deut. 20:17. Destroy the seven Canaanite nations. (Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria...?)

2) Deut. 20:16. Not to let any of them remain alive. (need nukes for that, oh and a nice all in regional war to complete this)

3) Deut. 19:3. Designate cities of refuge to prepare routes of access. (Sound familiar?)

4) Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a non-jew ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a non-jew he may keep. (Where's the International War Crimes Tribunal for Israeli officers committing atrocities?)

2) Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

3) Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (non-jew) hits a Jew, the non-jew must be killed. (Palestinian rock throwing teenagers?)

4) Baba Kamma 37b. If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full. (interesting comparison I make here is with 'accidental' Israeli damage during artillery or air strikes vs. the rockets launched into Israel)

5) Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a non-jew ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (no comment)

6) Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a non-jew. (no comment)

7) Yebamoth 98a. All non-jew children are animals (No toys; crayons, teddy bears and story books are allowed into Gaza)

9) Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in hot excrement. (Not believing in Jesus, no problem. Repeatedly slandering him in a holy text, allowable but far from cool.)

10) Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament or Koran ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come. (New World Order nearly complete, massive disproportionate ownership of media/influence in Western world).

11) Deut. 20:10. Offer peace terms to the inhabitants of a city while holding siege, and treat them according to the Torah if they accept the terms. (Do as we say and then we shall treat you well, otherwise...)

12) Lev. 19:13. Not to rob openly. (How many $billions has the Israeli government 'received' from swine flu vaccines? The need of which all fuelled by the media and managed to successfully fleece huge sums of money from the unsuspecting.)

13) Lev. 25:29. Carry out the laws of houses in walled cities. (A walled city you ask?)

14) Lev. 25:23. Not to sell the land in Israel indefinitely. (Is Netanyahu, or previous leaders, even allowed to maked deals under Rabbinic Law?)

15) Lev. 25:37. Not to lend Jews with interest
16) Deut. 23:21. Lend to and borrow from idolaters with interest. (learn how the US federal reserve is privately owned, who set it up and why. Prepare to be shocked!)







[edit on 3/4/10 by Caveat Lector]

reply to post by Caveat Lector


Ooooh you're so provocative stating that Hitler would be proud of the holiest Jewish text. Such a creative innocent theory, lol. Pretty much all antiquated texts seem anachronistic today. They are all filled with edicts that make any thinking person laugh. Duh. But, what's your point? And really, Hitler? Couldn't you do any better? How about something like the pope making michael jackson or ted haddard proud? Honestly, looks like we just got another envious one here.

Best,
Skunknuts

What happened to the rest of the 597 laws?
Got lost because it didnt fit your agenda?

Anyway.. dude.. no one really thinks "Okay.. gods wants us to destroy all the nations of the arabs! lets do it!"
Thats stupid.
You are quoting "Laws" that were written some few thousands years ago, most likely in Ancient Babylon, where the exiled jews from Israel became corrupt and started worshipping the Baal.
And back at those days, yes, it was accepted that if a non-jew hit a jew, he should be killed.
Who said its approved by god?
I'm sure god hates killing in his name more then all.

Sheesh... Who cares if hard core jews even think it now.. (seriously doubt it)
I only know, that I personally listen to my conscience when thinking right vs wrong.

I hate these posts that make an entire nation look like a bunch of A**holes.

Its really not like that.
Its just the goverment that sucks... like everywhere.

Originally posted by skunknuts
reply to post by Caveat Lector

 

Ooooh you're so provocative stating that Hitler would be proud of the holiest Jewish text. Such a creative innocent theory, lol. Pretty much all antiquated texts seem anachronistic today. They are all filled with edicts that make any thinking person laugh. Duh. But, what's your point? And really, Hitler?

Couldn't you do any better? How about something like the pope making michael jackson or ted haddard proud? Honestly, looks like we just got another envious one here.

The link to Hitler in the subject is straight forwards but shall explain for you skunknuts. You see Hitler used an ideology of supremacy to marginalise, discriminate and in many cases murder.

Originally posted by freebourn

Sheesh... Who cares if hard core jews even think it now.. (seriously doubt it)
I only know, that I personally listen to my conscience when thinking right vs wrong.

Who cares? Well if it was the current Israeli government that believed these laws must be upheld, then the Palestinians might care, so to a few others in the region. If the Israeli government believed this then those beyond the region (you know the greater world that wants peace) might care too.

Originally posted by Caveat Lector

Originally posted by freebourn

Sheesh... Who cares if hard core jews even think it now.. (seriously doubt it)
I only know, that I personally listen to my conscience when thinking right vs wrong.

Who cares? Well if it was the current Israeli government that believed these laws must be upheld, then the Palestinians might care, so to a few others in the region. If the Israeli government believed this then those beyond the region (you know the greater world that wants peace) might care too.

If the situation was reversed, I'm sure the Palestinians would be at least as barbaric. Welcome to the awesomeness of our species. Why pick-out Jews?

As for this:

The link to Hitler in the subject is straight forwards but shall explain for you skunknuts. You see Hitler used an ideology of supremacy to marginalise, discriminate and in many cases murder.

That pretty much describes every single conquering brutal clash of societal scapegoating and conquest that has ever been recorded. On a more individual level, it describes narcissism and sociopathy resulting from a mixture of deep seeded inferiority and evil; something I'm sure of which you seem quite able to understand by your drive to single-out the most unoriginal target of people.

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by skunknuts
Why pick-out Jews?

It would seem a discussion on the Talmud, its teachings and its possible application wouldn't "pick out" Christians, Muslims or Hindus would it? Hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by skunknuts
That pretty much describes every single conquering brutal clash of societal scapegoating and conquest that has ever been recorded

It's now 2010 and if religious discrimination occurred just about anywhere in the west it would not be tolerated.

Originally posted by skunknutsOn a more individual level, it describes narcissism and sociopathy resulting from a mixture of deep seeded inferiority and evil; something I'm sure of which you seem quite able to understand by your drive to single-out the most unoriginal target of people.

and now you drop to personal slander

Originally posted by Caveat Lector

Originally posted by skunknuts
Why pick-out Jews?

It would seem a discussion on the Talmud, its teachings and its possible application wouldn't "pick out" Christians, Muslims or Hindus would it? Hope that answers your question.

As if a few cherry-picked quotes from the talmud fell out of thin air and magically bonded to a middle-school comment about hitler being proud.

Originally posted by skunknuts
That pretty much describes every single conquering brutal clash of societal scapegoating and conquest that has ever been recorded

It's now 2010 and if religious discrimination occurred just about anywhere in the west it would not be tolerated.

Yeah, how about the aboriginals in your country? I live in America, and you should hear the things people say about muslims. Native Americans are still relegated to the underclass. As for Israel, it surely isn't an island, as far as the west is concerned. How about shia and sunni and kurds? People from the UK, as well as many western countries, are filled with seething xenophobics inching to blame their problems on immigrants of other nationalities and faiths.

Originally posted by skunknutsOn a more individual level, it describes narcissism and sociopathy resulting from a mixture of deep seeded inferiority and evil; something I'm sure of which you seem quite able to understand by your drive to single-out the most unoriginal target of people.

and now you drop to personal slander

Nah, just analysis that is clear as day.

Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 4/4/2010 by skunknuts]

Nah, just analysis that is clear as day.

Well if you want to discuss the Talmud, it's teachings and its possible use in 2010, you know where to come skunknuts.

reply to post by skunknuts

Actually the Torah is the holy text.

The Talmud is sort of the Jewish version of the Hadith (though I suppose it should be phrased the other way around) - "Experts" giving their opinion. Some take it as valid, others don't, with a lot of middle ground.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by skunknuts

 

Actually the Torah is the holy text.

The Talmud is sort of the Jewish version of the Hadith (though I suppose it should be phrased the other way around) - "Experts" giving their opinion. Some take it as valid, others don't, with a lot of middle ground.

The Torah comprises the first 5 books of the Tanakh. The Talmud is included in the Torah and has two components. The oral one of Moses remembering laws that God had told him earlier and the written discussion of the rabbis about these laws.

I wonder how many people today see these laws as valid? Especially any decision makers within the military or government.

The more I read, the more it would seem that the Talmud is authoritive and is indeed the fundamental source for rabbinic legislation and case law.

Speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that only a tiny percentage of Jews have ever read the Talmud. It is nothing but a commentary by scholars and not a sacred text. Further, most Jews do not take our ancient texts (such as the Book of Deuteronomy) literally or use it in modern times as some sort of guide. I cannot say the same about Muslims and the Koran. Nevertheless, many of the quotations you refer to are misquoted or half-truths. See:

talmud.faithweb.com...

I am always amazed that people who post things like this ignore the targeting of innocent civilians by the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists these days are Muslims.

reply to post by Caveat Lector

The Torah comprises the first 5 books of the Tanakh. The Talmud is included in the Torah and has two components. The oral one of Moses remembering laws that God had told him earlier and the written discussion of the rabbis about these laws.

It is good to speak about things one knows. It looks funny when it is the opposite.
Examle:
Tanakh -
T - Torah - Five Books of Moses
N- Neviim - Prophets
Kh - Ktuvim- Writings.
Torah is part of Tanakh,most important one. And Talmud is not part of Torah, nor of Tanakh.
And it is soooo easy to look for all this.....
In order to help you out - Talmud indeed has two components (Mishna (law) and Gemara (discuttions about laws), but there also two Talmuds. Babylonic one and Jerusalem one.
Hitler gave orders to burn the Talmud among other things. Guess he was proud of some other people....


[edit on 5-4-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

Originally posted by Berens
Speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that only a tiny percentage of Jews have ever read the Talmud. It is nothing but a commentary by scholars and not a sacred text. Further, most Jews do not take our ancient texts (such as the Book of Deuteronomy) literally or use it in modern times as some sort of guide. I cannot say the same about Muslims and the Koran.

Thanks for posting Berens. I agree with you completely in that the majority of the Jewish people do not adhere to these laws.

I disagree on two of your points though and would also like to raise one other. The Talmud is a sacred text indeed, of which half of it is commentary and the other is the direct laws given to Moses, which he later recalled and documented.

Is it possible that some people within the current Israeli government Adhere to these laws? Do some Rabbis believe this and today teach this? If a small proportion of Jews adhere to these, are the proportions highier within settler populations?

I am always amazed that people who post things like this ignore the targeting of innocent civilians by the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists these days are Muslims.

See your point here, I really do. However I would like to discuss the Talmud and its relevance today (if any) and its relevance to any conflict in region today (if any).

Sigh - another anti-Jewish thread. I think if I took the New Testement and just took random quotes, it would sound bad too. Most scholors now that a lot of these laws are antiquated. Stop trying to start something that you don't really know much about.

And Talmud is not part of Torah, nor of Tanakh.

Would a better way to say that be - the Talmud lists rules from the Torah and describes how to apply them to different circumstances?

Hitler gave orders to burn the Talmud among other things. Guess he was proud of some other people....

I did not know this. Would not have used that title with that knowledge.

reply to post by Caveat Lector


OK then, I see and understand these so called Jews, who are resting on the same system who killed Jesjuah ha Mesjiach and produced double agents such as Sjaul Paulus, who stoned to death holy Stefanos and the rest of the Christian bunch, I see they are resting their case entirely on the Tanakh. How about this: The "Jews" living in Israel today, though most of them really belongs to Jafeth's leg of Noah's sons, and are not even Sjemites (as in anti-semittic for instance, a word they love to sport whenever someone oppose them), well let's take them on their word, since most of them on the mother's side atleast are of Hebrew and Sjemite origin, well they belong to two of Israel's total of 13 tribes, and one of these tribes has no part in Israel, according to God himself, Levi, the Kohenim, his inheritance is Jahveh Elochim -- God. The other tribe is one "of the twelve" Judah, and his land is defined in Josvah as the desertous planes you can see in the map below. And Judah wasn't even part of the traditional kingdom of Israel, except for once, during David and Solomon's reign. Infact Judah was normally in constant war with Israel and was infact Israel's great enemy, just as it is today obviously.

In other words. The current people occupying the Holy Land today can only claim a small part of Israel, not the entire Nation. What if Dan of Denmark and Great Britain (the Latin name Britannia is probably derived from Hebrew words Berit and Dan, their flag is called the Union Jack, as in Jacob, who was renamed Israel by the Angel of God, and Denmark is actually called Danmark)? And so on. No, they were probably fed up of the continuous messing around down there with constant wars between Israel and Judah, even after Babylon, so they scattered among the nations and settled there in peace, mixing with the indigenous populations, according to God's word. Take a look at the picture below, and you can see the inheritance of Judah, and compare it to the land they occupy today. As you will see, the land God gave them is a mere fraction of today's Israel, and do you see who the land resembles? Looks Like Jesjuah to me!:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/01d91a56c0b9.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 5/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Hitler was funded by none other then the Illuminati. He did his Jew thing so Jews could gain sympathy.

People should really research history....

reply to post by Caveat Lector


The Talmud is also called the Babylonian Talmud. And one of the greatest teachers and most dominant schools of the Talmud is Hillel, a name almost or perhaps even completely identical to the name translated into "Lucifer" in Jesajah in the KJV, Hejlel. My translation of the given verse in Jesajah goes as follows: "How you are fallen Hejlel, son of Babylon?" Go figure. The occupants of Israel today aren't even Jews though they claim to be of Judah tribe. Judah wasn't even part of the Land of Israel traditionally, but were in constant wars towards it. Only during David and his son Solomon was there peace between the two nations, Judah and Israel. The other tribe present in Israel today are the Kohenim, of Levi tribe, and God says about Levi tha he has no part in the Land, for God is his inheritence. Levi was the priests. No wonder the Talmudians hate Jesjuah ha Mesjiach for he is a son of David and said he would come with a sword towards the false Jews, for as he said: "Don't believe that I have come to bring peace (to Israel) but a sword."

[edit on 5/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Quickfix
Hitler was funded by none other then the Illuminati. He did his Jew thing so Jews could gain sympathy.

People should really research history....

That's a strange and sick concept. Hitler wanting sympathy for the Jews of Europe, so better murder as many million as possible.

Despite the misleading and regrettable title - the discussion is does the Talmud have any effect on the region today? I.e. Decisions, relationships, war, land rights?