A lesson on Britian for AMERICANS

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by blupblup
Northern Island?

Shetland Islands?

We are proud citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Northern Island of Shetland

Is Southern Island the Isles of Scilly?

Okay, I'll stop. I'm having too much fun with geography now.

HA HA HA No your not.

The British Isles

consists of the following islands:

* Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales)
* Ireland (the Republic of Ireland)
A country west of England across the Irish Sea (not part of the United Kingdom)
* Northern Ireland (part of the United Kingdom)
* The Orkney and Shetland Islands
Islands off the northeast coast of Scotland
* The Isle of Man
An island in the Irish Sea
* Hebrides (including the Inner Hebrides, Outer Hebrides and Small Isles) All are islands off the northwest coast of Scotland
* The Isle of Wight
An island off the southern coast of England
* Isles of Scilly
An island off the southwest coast of England
* Lundy Island
An island off the southwest coast of England
* The Channel Islands
A group of small islands in the English Channel, off the coast of Normandy, France. The principal islands of the group include Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney and Sark.
* Plus many other offshore islands


Right, Im abandoning the thread before we start include the Commonwealth

reply to post by infinite






Ahhhhhhaaaaaaahhhhhaaaa


Stop.... my face is hurting

reply to post by Cytokine_Strom


That'll sure please the Irish members, remind them it's still called the British Isle.

I am of Irish American heritage, so in theory, I'm an American giving a lesson on British history to a British member (the OP) How ironic?

And without the Scottish oilfields you would've been screwed too.
Second line to say FREEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMM lol

reply to post by executioner


But its British waters!

Yahtzee my friend

And we paid off your debts, after the failed colony in Panama 1706. Typical eh? Royal Bank of Scotland, Darling and Brown? Seems history has repeated itself...




[edit on 3-4-2010 by infinite]

reply to post by blupblup


It takes two to tango mate. don't make me out as an instigator. you could have said. "lets not argue" and stay on topic.

Originally posted by fedupofitall
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

The English are rarely to blame? So after 800 or so years of oppression in Ireland ( Or "Island" as the OP says!

) where so many innocent people were murdered, when Irish rebels retaliated in an effort to reclaim what was rightfully theirs, they were unjustified? That England were the ones who were f*cked over?

Come on now, you're living in la la land if thats what you think. It wasn't just the early years at the hands of Cromwell that innocents suffered, but well into the 1900's. The black and tans were basically just ex-cons and murderers in uniform. My own great-grandmother was forcibly removed from her home and watched it burn when she was a child for no other reason than she was Irish and alive.

Anyway, water under the bridge now. I'm from the Rebublic of Ireland, and believe me I have nothing against the English at all, but when people say stupid things like that I would like to correct them. From what I've heard, English history books tend to forget the atrocities carried out by the English invaders of Ireland, and I'm sure the same goes for Scotland and Wales, however I know nothing of their history really.

Also OP, you live next door......its IRELAND, not ISLAND. The irony of you correcting the Americans and you cant even spell your own country's name nor part of the country it never left.



Sorry If I have misunderstood you, but I don't think I have tbh.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by fedupofitall]

[edit on 3-4-2010 by fedupofitall]

No, I meant in this sense:

First, Anglo-Saxons (the first English) are traditionally thought to have been invited into what's now known as mordern England by the indigenous peoples to help defend them against attacks from what's now known as Scotland, Ireland (and I think Wales) following the vacuum left by the Romans. There's already been masive plagues and climate change. The Anglo-Saxons then move in and there's probably a lot more assimilation than annihilation of the local population. The Anglo-Saxons then don't really have anything to do with Ireland.

Lots of Viking attacks and settlement in what's slowly becoming England and lots of two-way fighting between what's now England and what's now Scotland but lots of pushing down from the North. Lots of two-way stuff with Wales at this point too.

Then the Normans appear and this is where it gets interesting. Basically the Normans take England and Wales. They just about managed it by force (very narrowly if you look at the Three Battles that year) but arguably, they'd already made big inroads through the Court. From that point on, England is ruled by a Norman and French court. The Normans start buiding big castles across Wales as they start to do the same as they did the English.

It's at this time the 'English' start making designs on Ireland. However, contrary to what would-be Celts think, the English are actually a Norman and French ruling class aided by Welsh armies in what's a similar scenario to what happened with the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons. Minor disposed Irish king asks for help from both the Normans and the Pope (I think, I'm in a hurry here and typing against the clock!). Normans come over and, apparently, it's the start of England oppressing the Irish.

Over the next couple of hundred years, the Norman court starts becoming French proper and the ties between here and the mainland increase and become inextricable.

Then the House of Tudor comes on the scene and Welsh family ties-in with a French one and you get French-Welsh rulers of England and Wales. Interestingly, it's at this point that the first plantations in Ireland appear. notice the distinct lack of the English here.

Roll on a few hundred years and the next set of plantations appear. Funnily enough, at this point in time there's a Scot ruling England.

And so it goes. Lots of European Royalty taking turns keeping the throne of England warm for the next barely-speaking English monarch. Eventually, Scotland after a disastrous empire attempt elsewhere decides to throw in with the English crown for good, rather than just wait their turn like everyone else in this monarchical musical chairs. Britain appears again, slightly different this time but once more referring to the Big Island.

Everything that's happened since really is more about Britain rather than England.

So again, I'm not sure where exactly the English are getting a look-in here. I see them taking the lion's share of the blame but not much else really.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by Merriman Weir]

Stone the crows lot of sods ere Having a Benny Keep Your Hair On Lads some of the bleeding posts are utter Bollocks!

The Op has Cracking form no need Bite your arm off on account of some Blinkered Buggers makin a Dog's dinner of the spelling and slang.

some lads are in a Hump, sort the bleending Shambles have a Butchers at what the man is goppin.

You'll make winners out of this lot on ya Jack Jones Haydo

hope you enjoy the Steffi (Graff)

Ocker

reply to post by ocker


Umm...

Huh?

Also, I was wrong; the post has not degenerated into English vs Americans. Instead it's in danger of becoming English vs Scottish Always has to be something vs something on ATS doesn't it? We can never just have a discussion. Though, granted, this was never going to be a completely civil and relevant discussion right from the get-go.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Just as a supplement; it's worth noticing the similarly "Norman-French" origins of many famous Scottish lines of nobility, like Stewart and Bruce.

I think all this thread is proving to the Americans is that we can't really agree with anything.
Although I would love for Scotland to be an independent nation once more, it will never happen.

Wel We could enter thbis entire thread for the prize of most confusing or idiotic thread so far this year. What a load of old Bollocks!
And I am am idiot for adding to it!

what a truly splendid thread, a damn good laugh, its like reading a comedy history lesson! And what history!
As for 'Scotch' that comes out of a bottle, 'Scots' come out of Scotland, I'm surprised no one picked up on that earlier than I.
With all the stuff Americans are having to put up with now, I don't blame them for not caring where the limeys live. (I have a feeling that might not be spelled right)

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

No, I meant in this sense:

Ahh, sorry for the misunderstanding! I didn't know that was the case, when we learned history in school (which was a good few years ago so I'm getting a little hazy) I don't remember ever associating the English and Normans. We learned about the Normans invasion and that being around 1200AD IIRC, but generally associate the beginning of English rule/oppression or what have you with Oliver Cromwell which was the 1600's.

I get what you are saying though, people who's cousin's dog was an Irish wolfhound so they suddenly have a grudge with the English because they think all Irish people do!

Anyway, I think I've gone off topic enough now for one day!

reply to post by Haydn_17


I’m of the national origin that you would like to educate, American. So please forgive me if I thought I was educated already. I did read this thread in an attempt to better educate myself, but come away from it more confused than I was before clicking on it. It seems in your attempt to educate us, you have unveiled the fact that even citizens of the UK disagree on what is correct, thereby you must give us uneducated Americans leeway because how can we be clear if those who live there cannot. The way I see it, and please do correct me if I’m wrong (and please do keep it simple for us uneducated Americans ):

Two Islands, four countries…

Great Britain = the name of an island = the country of England + the country of Wales + the country of Scotland

Ireland = the name of an island = the country of Northern Ireland + the country of the Republic of Ireland (by far the largest portion of the island of Ireland)

United Kingdom (UK) = all of the countries in the island of Great Britain + a small portion of the island of Ireland (the country of Northern Ireland) = England + Wales + Scotland + Northern Ireland

When referring to Britain, one is referring to something/someone within the boundaries of the island of Great Britain.

When referring to the UK, one is referring to the political boundaries of the United Kingdom (see above).

Remember, I’m keeping it simple and am well aware of the various other overseas territories of the United Kingdom…

How did I do?

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
[

I

How did I do?

Full marks- go to the top of the class.
Did you have any thoughts on the suggestion that we should take over Texas? Or would we be biting off more than we could chew?

[edit on 3-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by jonny2410


Actually you are very wrong about that one. I think you'll find the reasons for wanting independance is a bit deeper than wanting to be free of "snobbish" English.

I am working on a thread now that I have been meaning to post for quite a while regarding Scottish Independance.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Did you have any thoughts on the suggestion that we should take over Texas? Or would we be biting off more than we could chew?

The word that directly comes to mind is "dichotomy" when thinking about this:

A dichotomy is any splitting of a whole into exactly two non-overlapping parts.

In other words, it is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets) that are:

* mutually exclusive: nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts, and
* jointly exhaustive: everything must belong to one part or the other.

Texas of all states in the U.S., a territory of the UK...

EDIT: I think there's more of a chance that Texas would take over Scotland and maybe NI... after all, why would Texans ever want England and Wales? Don't flame me... just kidding, just kidding...



[edit on 3/4/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by MR BOB
reply to post by blupblup

 

not really derailing when its entirely on the same subject is it?

lots of people learned something in it. and it seems the latest post has given quite some clarity.

Where as dropping EDL into your post, can only be meant as one thing. Intentional Defamation of the OP.

Well I was the one who brought it up, seeing as he's in the English Defence league he should be aware of what he is trying to defend and from whom.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Ah, it's one of those stupid Americans whose simpleton minds we have a duty to educate! (I jest in a sarcastic/ironic kind of manner )

Yes, you are pretty much spot-on, except you might come across some disagreement with Ireland = Republic and Northern Ireland. The island of Ireland is that, yes, but the name 'Ireland' is rejected by a lot of Northern Irish (who don't call themselves such, but prefer British), as they do not want to be associated with the Republic. It's all slightly confusing and utterly ridiculous as far as I'm concerned, but still.

In short, the term 'Ireland' (at least within Eire and NI) is associated solely with the south (the Republic (getting confused yet?)) whereas Ni is just that, Northern Ireland. In Ireland (I use the name to mean the island of Ireland (I'm on a confuddling roll!) to mean both sides of the border, we usually just say north and south, meaning NI and Eire, respectively.

That wasn't in short at all, was it? Anyway, the term British, also tends to apply to the Northern Irish, even though the term Britain applies only (officially, anyway, but not in everyday use, really) to England, Scotland and Wales.

I don't think I missed anything. Mostly, you are right; but to be safe, just say Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland (or Republic)

EDIT: Also, do you mind if I steal your signature? The one in yellow? Pleeeaase?

[edit on 3-4-2010 by ShadowArcher]