What is British Culture?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
some really good posts and i apologise for saying Britain won the world cup.
On that note, look what has happend to Football recently, our national game. supporters can no longer identify with the players they are cheering on.Players now earning more in a week than the average person can expect to see in a lifetime. Add to that the amount of foreign players in our leagues with no aleagence to their local teams, who will happily move from one club to their rivals for the right money, in the process stifiling the future of young British players.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting replies

Regarding the football, I agree as to the 'non-indigenous' players - for want of a better term - however, surely this only really mirrors the foreign fanbase of many English teams anyway? Look how popular teams like Manchester United are abroad.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
some really good posts and i apologise for saying Britain won the world cup.
On that note, look what has happend to Football recently, our national game. supporters can no longer identify with the players they are cheering on.Players now earning more in a week than the average person can expect to see in a lifetime. Add to that the amount of foreign players in our leagues with no aleagence to their local teams, who will happily move from one club to their rivals for the right money, in the process stifiling the future of young British players.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting replies

I totally agree with you on the football front. Football is no longer a sport but a business. As you say, having all these foreigners coming in to play affects our national teams. And yes it happens in Scotland too
We could sit here all year and speak about all the imperfections about football, about Britain, the world but it boils down to one thing and that is money. It is true that money is the root of all evil. Greed is a deadly sin (no i am not religious but those feckers in the bible did have some wise things to give to us religious or not).

Britain is like the rest of the "West"...we're all lost. Too much is broken with our system of things and we're all too full of fear to make a revolutionary change. Be it fear of being different and standing out or be it plain ignorance, the cogs are coming off, the bubbles are bursting, rose-tinted specs are untinting....the majority of this country wouldn't know what to do if the sh*t hit the fans.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
some really good posts and i apologise for saying Britain won the world cup.
On that note, look what has happend to Football recently, our national game. supporters can no longer identify with the players they are cheering on.Players now earning more in a week than the average person can expect to see in a lifetime. Add to that the amount of foreign players in our leagues with no aleagence to their local teams, who will happily move from one club to their rivals for the right money, in the process stifiling the future of young British players.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting replies

Regarding the football, I agree as to the 'non-indigenous' players - for want of a better term - however, surely this only really mirrors the foreign fanbase of many English teams anyway? Look how popular teams like Manchester United are abroad.

your right non indigenous is a better term, just a bit of a mouth full. I didn't want to come across as a little Englander in this thread.

More interested in seeing what people from the UK thought about this "British Culture" that gets bandeded around so much these days.

Richard LittleJohn I aint

Gin in teacups.

British culture.
The ability to laugh at ourselves and seeing humour in almost any given situation.

Being tenacious and having a 'you are not going to get the better of me you bastard' attitude and rallying around each other when the chis are down.

Britain has always been good at taking the good aspects of other cultures and absorbing and adapting them to British society.

Tracey Emin, The Last Night Of The Proms, the traditional Saturday night punch up in the kebab shop.

The list is endless.

Okay maybe I missed a posted comment or two above - but as an an ole yank in the bowels of a former British colony - our exposure to British culture is a bit one-sided.

I thought it had something to do with spanking bottoms and maybe a little leather restraint thrown in.

Sorry, just had to get that out. No disrespect intended.

gj

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

your right non indigenous is a better term, just a bit of a mouth full. I didn't want to come across as a little Englander in this thread.

More interested in seeing what people from the UK thought about this "British Culture" that gets bandeded around so much these days.

Richard LittleJohn I aint

Don't worry, you haven't come across as Richard Littleprick by any means.

I always find the arguments regarding the non-existence of a British culture a little disingenuous, to be honest. Often, I find, people who argue along these lines are actually looking in the wrong place. Britain is Britain as is England is England, Wales is Wales and Scotland is Scotland. Any British culture or identity can only be where Britain exists, rather than the separate countries that make-up Britain. It can only exist in the instances where these separate areas have come together in some way as otherwise you are talking about different countries that share a lot of things but can be different in many ways. That's not forgetting the fact that there is much regional difference between each individual country anyway and it's arguable that the North of England has as much in common with the South of Scotland as it does, say, London or the South Coast - if not more.

So you have to look at the times when the countries have come together to be Britain as opposed to their own separate countries. Really, this only covers things such as modern warfare and international sports.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by Merriman Weir]

i agree with mst of the op but tehe bit about chucking old people in to nursing homes because we dont want to care for them really angered me.

i watchboth my parents struggle to care for my grandparents as a child.
and because of this not only did my parents suffer and my grandparents suffer more because of it but so did i.
i had no child hood and my lasting memories of my grand parents is them suffering.
my parents never had time for me because they where trying to care for my grandparents.
and on top of that my grandmother suffered a broken arm because she got stuck in the bath and we didnt have the equipment to get her out properly.
when our doctor saw my mother carrrying my grandmother on her back he demanded that she be sent to a home where she could be cared for properly.
when this happened my grandmother was happier, one because she could talk to people her own age and she was being cared for properly.
also my mother and father could have a better quality of life and i finally had parents again.

so never judge people who send there elderly relatives to a home, because there might be a good reason.
my mother has decussed with me what she wants when she is older and she has expressed that she would never want me to care for her and my dad feels the same way.
at least a care asssistant gets to go home after a shift and can have a rest but for a family member it is a 24 hour job on top of that they have no life of their own.

Originally posted by kerrichin
i agree with mst of the op but tehe bit about chucking old people in to nursing homes because we dont want to care for them really angered me.

i watchboth my parents struggle to care for my grandparents as a child.
and because of this not only did my parents suffer and my grandparents suffer more because of it but so did i.
i had no child hood and my lasting memories of my grand parents is them suffering.
my parents never had time for me because they where trying to care for my grandparents.
and on top of that my grandmother suffered a broken arm because she got stuck in the bath and we didnt have the equipment to get her out properly.
when our doctor saw my mother carrrying my grandmother on her back he demanded that she be sent to a home where she could be cared for properly.
when this happened my grandmother was happier, one because she could talk to people her own age and she was being cared for properly.
also my mother and father could have a better quality of life and i finally had parents again.

so never judge people who send there elderly relatives to a home, because there might be a good reason.
my mother has decussed with me what she wants when she is older and she has expressed that she would never want me to care for her and my dad feels the same way.
at least a care asssistant gets to go home after a shift and can have a rest but for a family member it is a 24 hour job on top of that they have no life of their own.

Didn't mean to offend you, My grandparents both died in care homes. I just believe as a society we have very little respect for our elderly, we moan about broken britain, but do little to help those that made it great in the first place.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Fast forward to 2010, what do we look like now. The highest prison population in western Europe, The highest rate of teenage pregnancy in western Europe, the highest rates of obesity in western Europe, a binge drinking culture. A society that packs its elderly off to homes, because we no longer want to deal with them and a society where the ambition of most young people is to become famous, where, according to one poll, Cheryl Cole is regarded as woman of the decade.

More and more like the US every day, looks like: high prison population, obese, dumbed down...

And what is British culture, or ever was? Call it by its real name - English culture. Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Shakespeare, P. G. Wodehouse, Charles Dickens, George Macdonald Fraser, all that lovely and peculiarly British stuff. Elgar, Birtwhistle, Lennon/McCartney.

But face it, it's a culture defined by the English ruling class, for the most part.

(And don't think I neglect the land of my fathers - Joyce, Myles naGCopaleen, Wilde... Shaw, not so much, but that's just my taste. But "British", not Irish culture is the question here.)

But the truly great thing, for my money, is the mongrel, omnivorous nature of the English language. If "British" culture has one great strength, it is, for me, the sheer depth and nuance of English at its best.

Damme, sir! Left out British humour... but sorry, Zep (and I grew up on this stuff, still love it, love that kids today still totally love it) don't count. Not only did they rip off black artists note-for-note...

www.youtube.com...

but they didn't (unlike the Stones) give them any credit until the lawsuits started. Album credits on the original pressings always say, "trad. arr. Page, Plant, Jones, Bonham".

The vocal performance on the Otis Rush version, for me, wees all over Percy Plant's whining...

[edit on 2-4-2010 by rich23]

Originally posted by rich23
More and more like the US every day, looks like: high prison population, obese, dumbed down...

And what is British culture, or ever was? Call it by its real name - English culture. Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Shakespeare, P. G. Wodehouse, Charles Dickens, George Macdonald Fraser, all that lovely and peculiarly British stuff. Elgar, Birtwhistle, Lennon/McCartney.

But face it, it's a culture defined by the English ruling class, for the most part.

There's some merit to this, but perhaps not in the way that you're expressing here. There's a rift, a divide of foreign cultures amongst the classes. for the proles and lumpen-proles there's been a massive influence of American culture over the last couple of decades.

However, your point about the English ruling classes is a similar one but actually undermines your own argument. The English ruling classes tend to be very European in their outlook - despite crazy threads about Anglo-Saxon Missions and the like - simply because old, powerful, often aristocratic families are spread all over Europe like very expensive butter across a large piece of bread. They're not particularly loyal to one country nor particularly representative of it as one generation they might be here, another generation they might be there and so on. The only loyalty they hold is to their own families and their own kind.

Don't forget heep hop.

Them Brits love them some American ghetto jams.

Seriously.

And electro, too! Though I suppose they might currently prefer to get stupid to the drum and bass.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Gin in teacups.

British culture.
The ability to laugh at ourselves and seeing humour in almost any given situation.

Being tenacious and having a 'you are not going to get the better of me you bastard' attitude and rallying around each other when the chis are down.

Britain has always been good at taking the good aspects of other cultures and absorbing and adapting them to British society.

Tracey Emin, The Last Night Of The Proms, the traditional Saturday night punch up in the kebab shop.

The list is endless.

I agree with your first lot of points but The last night of the proms? Something I would never go to and avoiding fights and keebab shops, has always been high on my list of things to do.

So this is a culture we do not share, but Im still British, which I guess Is what I wanted to highlight in this thread.

I thought Tracey Emmin wanted to emmigrate because she had to pay too much tax here.

I always prefer a nice builders tea than Gin in my cup too.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
Don't forget heep hop.

Them Brits love them some American ghetto jams.

Seriously.

And electro, too! Though I suppose they might currently prefer to get stupid to the drum and bass.

I find the adoption of much of American youth culture weird, to say the least. Consider and compare to Morris Dancing. Ridiculous, attention seeking clothes? Check. Strange music? Check. Waving weapons about? Check. History of mimicking people belonging to another race? Check.

Nothing really between the two things, just one's acceptable because it's American and on the telly.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

I agree with your first lot of points but The last night of the proms? Something I would never go to and avoiding fights and keebab shops, has always been high on my list of things to do.

So this is a culture we do not share, but Im still British, which I guess Is what I wanted to highlight in this thread.

I thought Tracey Emmin wanted to emmigrate because she had to pay too much tax here.

I always prefer a nice builders tea than Gin in my cup too.

The Last Night Of The Proms is thoroughly British but holds no appeal to me personally.

Kebab shops are to be avoided at all costs, unless copious amounts of alcohol have been consumed, even then one's wits must be maintained.
They have become as much a part of Britain as Indian and Chinese take aways in a relatively short time.

British artists are at the forefront of new Art but Tracey Emin and Banksy are probably the only two who I like or even understand.
As for paying too much tax? Don't we all?

Gin In Teacups.


Pete Doherty maybe a complete and utter tosser but hismusic and lyrics are very good indeed.

I think television and computer games have 'killed' 'englishness', youth of to-day just cannot be bothered to pick up a book on any subject.
Strange to say, most of the people I meet in this little English town are polite, even youngsters, perhaps its the air round here?

reply to post by Freeborn


Have you seen the new Banksy film?, went to see it last week, great film, mad little story

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Not yet but really want to.
Think i'll be able to download it from somewhere.

Ah, Merriman, one of my favourite posters. You never fail to bring a smile to my face, and usually a good belly-laugh. Mmm. Morris dancing, indeed. And definitely British culture... though again (I'm open to correction on this) English, rather than British? We have, again, the conflation of English and British culture.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
There's some merit to this, but perhaps not in the way that you're expressing here. There's a rift, a divide of foreign cultures amongst the classes. for the proles and lumpen-proles there's been a massive influence of American culture over the last couple of decades.

You're right, and I hadn't thought about this for terribly long - just tried to come up with a laundry list of stuff that seemed peculiarly British (and that I enjoy, which is why Tracy Emin wouldn't make the long list although I think Banksy is absolutely wonderful). Hence the bias towards U-culture: oh, now, the Mitfords... how British can you get? There was that distressing little flirtation with fascism, of course.

And we're ruled by the Germans, of course.

However, your point about the English ruling classes is a similar one but actually undermines your own argument.

Maybe. One stellar example, though: George Orwell. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick one person that I thought epitomised the best of British culture, it would be him. And this is someone who actually did the "dirty work" of running the Empire, however briefly. It certainly informed his outlook.

And of course the particularly aristo families are cosmopolitan in their outlook, but in terms of defining British culture, I think they have still provided most of the patronage and a good many of the participants: and snobbishness being what it is, where they lead, the middle classes tend to follow.

In terms of modern British art and music, I have to say I find most of it irredeemably vapid and dull, a masterpiece of PR over content. Banksy, while I really like what he does, the phrase that occurs to me to describe him is not "artist" but "guerilla ontologist", and no bad thing either.

I do wish we were more like the French, though. If anything upsets them, the toys well and truly come out of the pram. The old saying about living somewhere where the government is afraid of the people, rather than vice versa, really applies.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Indeed... Although I'd go further and say that it's not even "southern England", but rather London that is the focus. Yet London is so out of step with what people do in Berkshire, let alone Hampshire, Wiltshire, Devon or Cornwall.

Now, as for the OP... I am ashamed you think there is no culture here. I'd hazard a guess and say you're either young or live in an "urban" enironment, where it wouldn't surprise me you think there is no culture.

Go out into the "real" England, into the small towns and villages and you'll see plenty of culture. Winter festivals, Spring carnivals, local Fayres dating back centuries.

It's all there and to think there is nothing but binge drinking and under-age sex is shameful and, to be honest, is rather ignorant of you.

reply to post by stumason


I'm 32 and live in a small villiage in Oxfordshire, I like to think I'm still young, so you got me wrong from the get go.

Anyway , I never said that we have no culture, check the OP. Just because I dont go waving my flag around does not mean, I am not proud to be british. One of the things I like about being british is the fact we are not really a flag waving nation

British culture has made me who i am today and I happen to like who I've become so i love some aspect so of british culture, The fact I can watch Wonders of the Universe on BBC2.

The OP was probably a little too harsh and failed to highlight the great aspects of UK culture, but after threads about the UK and immigration, I thought it would be interesting to explore the notion of British Culture.

I'm sorry if i do not appear patriotic enough for some of my fellow Brits,

[edit on 4-4-2010 by woodwardjnr]