Camcorder & Skywatching Questions

No!
haha not at all. I'm completely focused on making sure I get this observatory/skywatch project done right. I happen to agree with the comments about the music and pretty video backgrounds. I'm not interested in making a mockery video or making it look good. I just want raw geniune footage of some good unexplainable phenomena.

That's why I mentioned the software issue. Because the Honestech VHS to DVD4.0 package I got at the wk'end converts any video footage I have over onto the laptop. The package included a USB capture device. I'll get to that shortly. The software does the job, and i've now figured out under settings I can change the video capture media type to WMV this means that any video shot will be usable on WMM without the need to file convert. So that's one issue sorted. The only other issue I now have is that the laptop I'm using has issues running WMM. It just freezes 'Windows Movie Maker is not responding' and i'm assuming it doesn't have enough running memory. So then any WMV I want to upload I have to email to myself and pick up on the pc upstairs. I hope that this is only a temporary measure and that soon I will invest in my own laptop, my own videocamera (up to date one) and of course at some stage a seagate external HD.

After looking into the System details of the laptop it has 1G RAM. I also checked the 'about movie maker' topic on the software and it states it is Windows Movie Maker 6.0 for Windows Vista SP 2.0
I've done a quick check, although it states WMM 6.0 on Vista can run on 1Gig RAM it clearly has issues. Whether or not that is to do with operating Memory or 'fuzzy' vista system requirements and files i'm not sure.

Right. Now to address my current setup. Yesterday I took a photograph of what I currently have. I thought i'd do this to visually show you guys how i've gone about my first setup. Considering the only available video camera i have is outdated, I needed the Honestech software and vidbox to transfer it direct to Laptop. (I just didnt anticipate the WMM issue).


1. Is the Hitachi VideoCamera I've borrowed. As discussed in a previous post it is the VM E360E model.
2. Is the Vidbox, the usb capture device that connects via number (4) links to the laptop number (3)
3. Laptop.
4. Phono Lead to Vidbox (2).

I hope this clearly shows the setup. The Tripod is also my fathers (he wasn't using it anyway) and it can extend up to a height of 4ft when fully extended.

Yesterday I took some time out to setup the skywatch station and zoomed into a couple of aircraft flyovers.
Aircraft Flyovers

One of the massive issues I have with this camera is the auto focus, it wouldn't be too bad an issue if I could switch it off. It just seems to fight what I want to focus on. (Hope that makes sense) and as a result never really settles if the object is moving.

I should imagine most people would get deterred and think this is becoming an impossibility but its having an opposite effect to me, if anything its made me more determined.

I've posted a couple of updates on the Project Skywatch Website. I also hope to have a little footage from last nights station report posted in the news section later on.

Thanks so much for your advice it has been really helpful.

I've been looking at a refurb JVC MS120 from best buy for $190. Not only is it good quality with an image stabilizer, but the zoom is amazing.

Here's a youtube video testing the zoom:

Amazing IMO

I've always been fond of JVC gear. Very good value, reliable..

Superiorraw, in regard to your laptop issues - if you are trying to run Vista on a laptop with 1Gb you are already in trouble I'm afraid. It's no wonder WMM is choking. If I was limited to 1Gb on a laptop, I'd downgrade it to XP...

reply to post by CHRLZ


Yeah. On my PC WMM works fine. Even though I'm using XP on my PC. So at the moment I'm having to upload any WMV's i'm using and send them to my pc instead
When I get my new laptop I do plan on making sure I have enough RAM and Storage place for video and editing. The laptop I am using i think is on the way out anyway, it's my mums laptop and my brother dropped it last year

I see there is some disagreement about my suggestion of implementing two cameras at once, the primary argument being that stereoscopic range finding will have limited range.
In some respects that is true but I would argue that there are still many benefits, the ability to distinguish between near and far objects being the primary among them.

Again I must stress that there are already countless videos taken with decent equipment and all of these videos have seen their share of rejection because it could not be determined whether the object was near or far. My philosophy, why not do something outside the norm and produce something above the status quo.

Other advantages of a two camera system include:
Rejection of camera, optics, and system anomalies
Increased resolution
Increased spectral sensitivity
Improved spectral analysis (especially when one camera is coupled to a diffraction grating)
System redundancy
Simultaneous capture of wide and telephoto field of view
Increased evidence against CGI

Your second camera doesn’t have to be expensive. A $10 used webcam from Ebay with the NIR filter removed is all that is needed. Modified to take long exposures as done by amateur astrophotographers it becomes a valuable tool for range and speed estimation (see this thread).

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents about the subject.

About your auto-focus problem, of all the camcorders I’ve ripped apart, the auto-focus was always easy to bypass with a return to center DPDT toggle switch and a resistor.

reply to post by dainoyfb


I've learned a lot from you in the past year and change, and I thank you Dainoyfb.

To the OP, one thing that I would suggest is to practice filming conventional, known moving objects -- both in daylight and at night. Doing this has made me much more adept at tracking and focusing on various objects.

You can go on www.heavens-above.com to find out when the ISS or other satellites are to pass over or near your precise location. Then, knowing when the ISS will do a flyby, you can have your system set up and ready to capture it. Terrestrial satellites travel at a consistent velocity, but even then can be difficult to keep in the frame of your equipment, until you get the hang of it.

I've practiced this many times. For example, if the ISS is going to pass directly overhead, you can start recording as it approaches. If it passes overhead, you have to do a sort of twisting motion -- otherwise you'd track it until you fell over backwards. This motion, when viewing the recording later, makes it look as if the object turned and then turned again, when actually, it was you that was turning.

I do a bit of night-vision recording from time to time as the "seeing" is clear. My equipment is not even close to the quality of that which dainoyfb uses, however I make do with what I have. Learning how to pan with your equipment on a tripod is well worth the time, as well as learning how your equipment deals with points of light. The previous camera I had would constantly autofocus in and out when taping moving satellites. What I use now is not an expensive camera, but has the features to be able to use a macro focus, so it can record from the relative close-view of looking through my night-vision scope, as well as being able to manually focus on objects.

Thus far, I haven't recorded anything otherworldy, but I do feel ready to capture the moment if.... no, WHEN it eventually occurs.

Another probably obvious tip: Always have an extra battery charged and ready to put in, as well as additional memory. I'd rather have to interrupt a once-in-a-lifetime video to change a card or battery than to miss the conclusion alltogether.

One more: I use a headlamp much of the time for hands-free operation, and I always use one with a red light. Red light causes far less eye fatigue than a white one, and it doesn't ruin your [own] night vision.

Looking forward to watching what you find!

cheers

reply to post by argentus



Thanks so much for the flattery.

You bring up one of the best points that spending time practicing and trying different things will, over time, give you the expertise to produce the "good stuff" and also to reject worldly objects that the common person would mistake as unique. Solid knowledge of the subject is the most imortant tool and will help gain you the respect of the community rather than a reputation for jumping to conclusions.

Edit to add:
Kudos to the OP for taking a thorough, scientific approach.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by dainoyfb]

Originally posted by argentus
I've learned a lot from you in the past year and change, and I thank you Dainoyfb.

To the OP, one thing that I would suggest is to practice filming conventional, known moving objects -- both in daylight and at night. Doing this has made me much more adept at tracking and focusing on various objects....
[lots of other good stuff removed]

VERY good point! I had forgotten that one in my list that I'm putting together, so thanks for reminding me, Argentus.

Dainyofb, thanks for your clarification of the stereo business - I do see the usefulness of the concept beyond that of ranging, and hadn't fully considered all the points you raised.. But the fact that you have to either have it in one location or assemble/disassemble it, get everything coordinated, get settings right on two cameras... I can't even handle one, sometimes... and if something happens quickly... Anyway, it's an interesting idea. Hate to put you on the spot, but are you currently doing this, or planning to?

Very interesting reading so far. I'd like to propose a drawing or explanation of the mounted camera scenario, 2 cameras joined together, i'm assuming that camera 1. will shoot the footage
camera 2. will also shoot the footage but conclusively be used as a distance or range finder? Is that accurate?

Correct me if I am wrong. Let me try and show you via a personal paint diagram (admittedly not very good one).
Camera Example

Two cameras mounted on the same bracket, maybe use the bottom screw adjustments of two of the same tripod stands.
see here> : Camera Tripod Mount
Most modern day video cameras have those mounting holes, if you got 2 of these one for each camera and aligned them via leds?

I Guess this brings me to my next question...Can you get a video camera with a distance calculater/range on it?
Edit: to include a link > Is this what your referring to dainoyfb?
stereoscopic camera

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Superiorraw]

Originally posted by Superiorraw
Very interesting reading so far. I'd like to propose a drawing or explanation of the mounted camera scenario, 2 cameras joined together, i'm assuming that camera 1. will shoot the footage
camera 2. will also shoot the footage but conclusively be used as a distance or range finder? Is that accurate?

Correct me if I am wrong. Let me try and show you via a personal paint diagram (admittedly not very good one).

Camera Example

Ummm. I'm not quite sure I get it - maybe if you labelled stuff?

All you need is a block of wood or metal bar (aluminum square tube or similar) that is solid and inflexible, and a few UNC 1/4"-20 fittings, which is the standard tripod mount screw. Just mount the cameras side by side, pointing in the same direction. Note that you can easily damage a tripod mount by a too-long bolt!! Do your homework and be careful with your design to ensure it doesn't happen.

Now you *could* then mount that bar on a tripod, but it will have to be a very good mount to ensure it it is steady - do you have any engineering knowledge, or access to some skilled folk in a workshop?

But there's another, often overlooked option for this sort of thing, or in fact anytime you want an alternative to tripod mounting. A small bean bag!! A good firm bean-bag is wonderful to assist in keeping a camera or rig steady. On top of a fence post, a car roof.. whatever. Educated camera stores will sell them, but any firm, smallish bean bag will be fine.

I Guess this brings me to my next question...Can you get a video camera with a distance calculater/range on it?

Not in your price range, I'd suspect, but correct me if anyone knows otherwise? You might want something like these:
www.letsgodigital.org...
news.cnet.com...
I think you can probably guess at what they cost...
Or how's about "the red one"? Google it...

But there are alternatives:
DSLR with video... will allow you to use interchangeable lenses, inc. manual focus ones. Not all DSLR's do video tho' so be warned. The beauty of this approach is that you get a really good still camera, as well as video... The disadvantage is you lose simultaneous filming, so you might still want another cam.. Lastly, DSLR's with video are reasonably expensive.

'Bridge' Camera... These are the high-end consumer cameras with non-interchangeable 'superzoom' lenses, like the Panasonic DMC-FZ35, Canon SX20IS, Fuji S2000HD/HS10... Again, you get a very good still camera, along with 'pretty good' video. But the sensors are smaller, so the quality isn't quite as good, none of them offer distance scales, and manual focus is not as easy as it is on a DSLR..

If it was me, I'd probably lean to a bridge camera first up (the Panasonic DMC-FZ35, probably). It does everything pretty dang well, and has very good glass..

If my budget was higher, DSLR - probably the new Pentax K-x from a value standpoint. Very, very wide range of old (manual) and new (auto) lenses can be found to fit it, high quality video, and most importantly - comes in pretty colours!

Originally posted by CHRLZ
Hate to put you on the spot, but are you currently doing this, or planning to?

Yes, I run my camcorder beside my thermal imager like this all the time.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6be85e8be833.jpg[/atsimg]
Also there is this system that I run occasionally.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f06ebe71ce41.jpg[/atsimg]
Technical Description of Image
I agree that running more than one camera at a time can be very difficult and this system is no exception. The thermal imager/camcorder in the previous picture is fairly convenient though.

reply to post by Superiorraw



The second camera doesn't necessarily have to be aligned perfectly as long as you include some footage of a reference scene (such as some distant buildings). The LEDs that I mentioned are for synchronizing the timing of the videos from the two different cameras not aligning the images.

You have the right idea about mounting the cameras together and you can see a smaller example of this in the previous image I posted of my camcorder mounted via an aluminum bar (covered with rubber heat shrink tubing) to my thermal imager. As CHLRZ stated the tripod mounting holes in cameras are for standard 1/4 inch coarse thread bolts and if you buy the socket cap type then plastic push on knobs are available for them at hardware stores which is what I have done here.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by dainoyfb]

A better image of the camera mounting bar that I made for my thermal imager and camcorder.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d29e4a0c4bd2.jpg[/atsimg]

So I was looking in this electronics store catalogue today, they have this thing called Sentient. You can have 4 different cameras mounted to it and showing up on your monitor/laptop. From here you have NV available for up to 5 Miles.
It's for use primarily with CCTV, but i think if you can use a webcam and videocamera? You could probably hook up four camera's devices in the same way?
Sorta like
Cam 1 - CCTV
Cam 2 - Video Camera
Cam 3 - Thermal Imaging
Cam 4 - I dunno about this one? Maybe the opposite direction in the sky?

I just thought that if this thing could operate on a 360 degree movable point above the house and have it wired up.. you could get some serious sky footage?

By the way Dainoyfb that camera mount is awesome, I hope i can do something similar when I complete my upgrade

Could you give your opinions on this?
Panasonic SD60

I hope the link works. I was looking at the tech side of things.

Technical Details

Image Sensor
Image Sensor: 1/4.1" MOS
Total Pixels: 3.32 megapixels
Effective Pixels
Motion Image: 2.11 megapixels [16:9]
Still Image: 2.28 megapixels [3:2] / 2.11 megapixels [16:9] / 2.32 megapixels [4:3]
Lens Section
Lens Brand: Panasonic Lens
F Value: F1.8(WIDE)/3.3(TELE)
Zoom
Optical Zoom: 25x
Intelligent Zoom: 35x
Digital Zoom: 60x / 1500x (The maximum value of zoom magnification)
Focal Length: 3.02-75.5mm
35mm Film camera Equivalent: 35.7-893mm (16:9) [Motion Image] / 35.7-893mm (3:2), 35.7-893mm (16:9), 36.0-900mm (4:3) [Still Image]
Camera Section
Standard Illumination: 1400 lx
Minimum Illumination: 4.0 lx (1/25 Low Light scene mode) / 1 lx (Color Night View)
Image Stabilizer: POWER O.I.S. [Optical Image Stabilizer]
Focus: Auto / Manual
White Balance: Auto / Indoor1 / Indoor2 / Sunny / Cloudy / White set
Shutter Speed
Motion Image: [50i] Auto Slow Shutter ON : 1/25-1/8000 , video flash: 1/25-1/500 / [50i] Auto Slow Shutter OFF : 1/50-1/8000, video flash: 1/50-1/500
Still Image: 1/2-1/2000, video flash: 1/2-1/500
Iris: Auto / Manual
Backlight Compensation: Yes
Monitor
Monitor (LCD): 2.7 Wide LCD ( 230,400 dots)
Still Image Section
Recording Format: JPEG
Recording Image Size
Simultaneous Recording: 4.5 megapixels (2816 x 1584) , 2.1 megapixels (1920x1080) [16:9]
Still Picture: 5.0 megapixels (2592 x 1944) , 1.9 megapixels (1600 x 1200) , 0.3megapixels (640 x 480) [4:3] / 4.8 megapixels (2688 x 1792) , 1.9 megapixels (1680 x 1120) [3:2] / 4.5 megapixels (2816 x 1584) , 2.1 megapixels (1920 x 1080) [16:9]
Creating still picture from motion picture 2.1 megapixels (1920 x 1080) [16:9]
Flash: Yes
DPOF: Max. 999 images
Recording Section
Audio Recording System: Dolby Digital (2ch)
Signal System: 1080 / 50i
Recording Format: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 (AVCHD standard compliant)
Recording Mode: HA (17Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HG (13Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HX (9Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HE (5Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)
Playback Mode: HA (17Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HG (13Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HX (9Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080) / HE (5Mbps / VBR) , (1920 x 1080)
Microphone: 2ch Stereo, Zoom Microphone
Speaker: Dynamic type
Media Remaining Indication: Yes
Interfaces
HDMI: Yes (mini)
USB: 2.0 Hi-Speed
AV multi: Yes
General
Power Supply: (Battery / AC Adapter) DC3.6V / 5.0V
Power Consumption: Max. 4.4W (Recording) / Max. 7.7W (Charging)
Weight (w/o Battery): approx. 255g
Dimension (W x H x D): 51.5 x 65.5 x 112.0 [mm]
Media: SD/SDHC/SDXC Memory Card
On-Screen Display Language: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Czech, Netherlandic, Turkish, Swedish
OTHERS
LED Video Light: Yes
Standard Accessories
AC Adaptor: Yes
AC Cable: Yes
DC Cable: included AC Adaptor
Rechargeable Battery Pack: min. 1790 mAh / Lithium-Ion
AV multi Cable: Yes
USB Cable: Yes
Included Software: HD Writer AE 2.0
Stylus pen: Yes

It mentions low light capability as well as Auto/Manual options on both focus and Iris. Would this be a good pickup/range of what I should be looking for?

Originally posted by Superiorraw
Could you give your opinions on this?
Panasonic SD60

I hope the link works. I was looking at the tech side of things.

There's a reasonable sort of review here:
www.simplydv.co.uk...
.. most of the other reviews I could find were just advertorial crap.

About the only thing that might be an issue is no remote (?weird!?). That can be handy for long recording sessions, and to alleviate the problem of moving the camera when you touch it..

I'll mention a few things from that list below..
Image Sensor: 1/4.1" MOS
That's good, many camcorders use a smaller sensor, which is more noisy and not as good in low light.

Lens Brand: Panasonic Lens
F Value: F1.8(WIDE)/3.3(TELE)
f1.8 is good too - a large aperture means more light gathering power (by the way, the smaller the f-number, the larger the aperture - eg f1.8 is much better than f5.6). Panasonic lenses are generally pretty good - I'm not sure who makes their camcorder lenses - perhaps Canon? (Panasonic uses Leitz (Leica) lens designs for some of their higher end cameras but they proclaim that fact loudly - so this isn't a Leitz, sadly.. If it was, that would be even better..)

Optical Zoom: 25x
Good

Intelligent Zoom: 35x
The review says this is 'good', but as far I'm concerned, anything other than optical zoom is *not* real detail, so you should always turn that stuff off for anything 'forensic'. The digital zoom figures are ridiculous and should be ignored.

Minimum Illumination: 4.0 lx (1/25 Low Light scene mode) / 1 lx (Color Night View)
These aren't particularly exceptional numbers, but they are good for this class of camera.

Image Stabilizer: POWER O.I.S. [Optical Image Stabilizer]
Panasonic's IS has a very good reputation, but be aware that it can cause problems when on a tripod, and/or shooting things like stars/planets. Turn it off if in doubt, and just rely on a really good tripod.

Focus: Auto / Manual
Yaay!!!

Shutter Speed
Motion Image: [50i] Auto Slow Shutter ON : 1/25-1/8000 , video flash: 1/25-1/500 / [50i] Auto Slow Shutter OFF : 1/50-1/8000, video flash: 1/50-1/500
Still Image: 1/2-1/2000, video flash: 1/2-1/500
Iris: Auto / Manual

It sounds as if you have control of aperture (iris), but shutter speed? Not sure. It would be good if it did, but not a deal killer if it doesn't..

Simultaneous Recording: 4.5 megapixels (2816 x 1584)...
Still Picture: 5.0 megapixels (2592 x 1944)...
These *sound* good, but I'll be surprised if they are near a match for a real 5Mp or greater camera's images... If you are after lots of high-quality stills, think about a still camera with video instead.

Overall, a very nice camcorder... but no remote?

Hey CHRLZ
thank you for replying to the questions about the Panasonic SD60
That review definately seems quite favourable and you've made some excellent points about the features of the camera.

I'd imagine a remote would be available? Maybe as an add-on accessory to buy?
I also would like your guys opinions on the following. If I am to do video processing and recording. I'd need a good RAM for the new laptop. Would 3GB be enough? I can't find any laptop on Amazon that goes above the Sony VAIO in terms of RAM capacity.
There is one with 3GB and 320GB HD. I also was thinking of investing in a Seagate External HD too. This would be ideal for storing any really important bits of video I dont want to lose.

Final question. What is the difference between a DSLR Camera and a HD Videocamera? Is it precisely what you said earlier about individual shots?

My idea that I had, was that to incorporate what dainoyfb mentioned. If I got the Panasonic SD60 I could use the hitachi as the second cam? you know as a stereoscopic setup. He did mention that the 2nd camera could even be a webcam, so i'd assume the hitachi would be a good 2nd cam to have. Even if it isn't I could always get a webcam.

Originally posted by Superiorraw
Hey CHRLZ
thank you for replying to the questions about the Panasonic SD60

That review definately seems quite favourable and you've made some excellent points about the features of the camera.

I'd imagine a remote would be available? Maybe as an add-on accessory to buy?

Sounds like there is some sort of link to the Viera TV, in regard to a remote.. I didn't understand that bit of the review.

One thing I forgot - it looks like it has 'color night view', whatever that is, but not IR? If it's color, that sounds like it isn't true IR. But then I'm not sure you can get true IR anymore, anyways...

I also would like your guys opinions on the following. If I am to do video processing and recording. I'd need a good RAM for the new laptop. Would 3GB be enough? I can't find any laptop on Amazon that goes above the Sony VAIO in terms of RAM capacity.
There is one with 3GB and 320GB HD. I also was thinking of investing in a Seagate External HD too. This would be ideal for storing any really important bits of video I dont want to lose.

I'm not really up to date here. 3Gb should be fine for video editing on WinXP. Vista? I doubt it, but could be wrong..

Final question. What is the difference between a DSLR Camera and a HD Videocamera? Is it precisely what you said earlier about individual shots?

Well... yes, sort of. But it's a long story... I'll try to keep it brief.
Video cameras/camcorders are designed for.. videos. Usually fairly low resolution (a couple of megapixels).. They can often do stills, but although claiming 3,4,5 or more megapixel images, the resolution just isn't there.

Then there are digital still cameras, with resolutions ranging from 6-18Mp..

There are a wide range of digitals that do NOT have interchangeable lenses, from pocketable compacts, through to 'bridge' cameras which are larger, higher quality cameras with long zooms, like the Panasonic FZ35. Most of these do video, at various quality levels.

Now, an SLR camera (DSLR for digital versions) is a different design again.
It has interchangeable lenses, offering much more flexibility.
It has a much larger sensor than the compacts or bridge cameras, so significantly better quality. Not necessarily more pixels, but bigger ones, which translates to big increases in quality, low light capability and real resolution.
It uses a mirror/prism arrangement (hence Single Lens Reflex) so you look through the lens. At the time of exposure, the mirror swings up, and a shutter mounted in front of the sensor (or film) allows light through for the image.

So why are DSLR's so cool? Well, firstly the fact that they have MUCH larger sensors - the DSLR gives a VERY noticeably better image than a compact or bridge camera.. Second, you can swap lenses, and use anything from fish-eyes to long, fixed-focal-length telephoto lenses (single focal length lenses give better quality than zooms).

The problem is, it is only recently that this type of camera has begun to be able to take videos (compact and bridge cameras have been doing it for a long while), due to the design. So video capable SLR's are only just becoming available. It's an expensive way to go, but you get the best of both worlds - a very flexible and high quality still camera, along with a video recorder.

Anyway, need some inspiration?

vimeo.com...

If that doesn't impress you, then you are probably dead. (Several nifty ufo's, too..) That gives you an idea of what a video capable DSLR can do in the hands of someone who knows his camera... (Some of the weird 'daylight' star images are in fact *moon*lit, so that tells you about the low light capability of DSLRs...)

My idea that I had, was that to incorporate what dainoyfb mentioned. If I got the Panasonic SD60 I could use the hitachi as the second cam?

Are you absolutely certain that the Hitachi can not be manually focused, or locked on infinity? If it can, it would be quite a capable camera, by the looks of those samples you gave. If not... maybe it's time to move on..

Hey
Thanks for the link
RE: The Hitachi I've borrowed. I've been through options (there aren't many) and not including the lack of manual/auto focus but even the low light capability i definately think its time to move on.

I'm about half way into my target fund around the £500 mark. I've called 4 different shops and most of them say the Panasonic SD60 is hard to beat for price/quality.

I asked about the DSLR because I wanted to make sure that video shooting wouldn't be bi-passed, i probably didnt word this right, but from what your saying the DSLR is primarily an advanced camera?

At the moment I am looking for a direct video camera to record footage rather than take pictures, no store or retailer i've spoken to yet has offered a direct competitors video camera that can better the SD60.

The only thing I'm not sure of is the workings and low light level production. I've spoken to a local shop (the next town on from me) he expects to have one in some point in 2 weeks time, according to the sales rep thats when they'll have one, I am going to call them back and see if i can go down and have a play about with it. From when I spoke to him over the phone he understands my caution about buying or paying so much for a video camera and not wanting to be in the same scenario i'm in now.

I dont want to leave the hitachi behind unless i'm moving onto something significantly better, and by the looks of it there isnt any other option other than the SD60, the shop offered the model below it, but he said that performing under low light capability might not be as good. Which again I dont want.

The laptop I was looking at RE: Sony Vaio 3GB 320G HD was running on Windows 7.

Hi Superiorraw,
Unfortunately I haven't been able to keep up with this thread as much as I'd like. Its a busy time right now.

I just wanted to quickly mention that I generally agree with CHRLZ's review of the Panasonic SD60. It is a logical and accurate assessment. One thing that confuses me however is his statement about the 1/4.1 image sensor. This is a particularly small sensor as far as mid range camcorders are concerned. This probably accounts for the mediocre light sensitivity. The low light rating is about the only thing that would make me think twice about this choice. Other than that it seems like a nice camera. I also recommend you take a serious look at the Cannon line. Their optics are excellent. CHRLZ also mentioned the remote. I find a remote is really handy for doing advanced modifications such as building a remotely aimed mount etc.

As far as using your Hitachi for the second camera in a stereoscopic system, it would be an excellent camera for that. Much better than a cheap webcam and it has the bonus of already having a built in recorder. If you couple the Hitachi and the new camera together on a mount you will be producing a new standard for footage and if you happen to capture something with it you will have something that nobody in the UFO community has ever seen before.

Tell you what, if you put that system together and show us pics of the rig and some footage from it I'll send you a video sync circuit for it.