Planning on Overthrowing the government? It's a Crime!

reply to post by whatukno


Do you see the progressive mindset as the push behind the Ill's of our country? I do I think they are trying to do it on a global level and we are a big stepping stone.

I also think the whole left vs. right crap is nothing more than a stage show set up to keep us busy while they slowly gain this control over us.

reply to post by whatukno


Well I think it is common sense that it's illegal to conspire against your homelands government. But of course those who do don't probably care anyway.

I mean Britain probably had a law against it too, but our founders did it anyway, didn't they? So this law is kind of pointless other than it gives the Government a reason to arrest them.

I don't like the idea of a violent revolution and I think someone needs to make it very clear that our Founders didn't either. Ever watch the Patriot? Prime example, some wanted it others didn't. One of my ancestors actually moved to Ohio to avoid having to choose sides.

Similar situations have arose in the past (The second American Revolution aka the Civil War for example) revolutionaries will always be there, it's when they start to win the majority over do we have to worry.

reply to post by DINSTAAR

I am sensing a bit of fear mongering.

I do apologize for any fear mongering however it is more or less unintentional.

My hope is to relay facts.

The fact is, this law does exist.

The fact is, there are a few members of this forum who have advocated the violent overthrow of the government.

I do not see forum 'revolutionaries' as a threat to the government at all. Most genuine and intelligent revolutionaries are peaceful because they know that overthrowing a system of violence with violence is inherently flawed.

I do agree. Internet Revolutionaries like the ones that operate on ATS currently in my opinion are quite cowardly, and would never actually act against the government. However, there might be some who don't actually post here that might take these people seriously enough to actually try something.

Don't be afraid of the boogyman. Don't listen to pundits. The perceived threat only exists because the government wants to use fear to take away more freedom.

Oh my observations here aren't from pundits, in fact this has been an observation of mine here for quite a while. The only difference now is that I have discovered a law against such planning. I thought it would be best to relay and disseminate that information here because it is quite important, especially for those few who do actively post their willingness for a violent revolution.

reply to post by whatukno


Voting to secede is not a crime. There is no violence involved, no force involved. Quit being an apologist for the Federal Government. If Canadian provinces can secede from Canada why can't U.S. states? Are we no better than Taiwan, where if they declare their independence they will be invaded by China?

reply to post by Bobbox1980


Secession as a legal act is quite debatable. It would seem as evidenced by the civil war that states do not in fact have the right to secede from the union.

But the law that is in the OP is quite explanatory on what is in fact illegal in this instance.

The fact is, planing to overthrow by force the United States government is a crime.

reply to post by whatukno


Your examination of the civil war is too cursory. The civil war started with the Battle of Fort Sumter when the Confederate army attacked a Fort in the south that was still held by soldiers of the United States. If the South had not done that and instead played it peaceful, played it like Gandhi, the southern states would have successfully seceded, it would have only been a matter of time.

Planning to secede by going door to door to get signatures to put an initiative for secession on the next ballot come next November has nothing to do with using force.

You brought up secession as sedition, I am not debating violent force as sedition.

reply to post by Bobbox1980


You could be correct, I also believe that some states actually have provisions within their own state constitutions which would make it illegal to secede from the Union.

What I am more concerned about is the attempts by some on ATS who would want to advocate a violent revolution against the federal government.

reply to post by Bobbox1980

Your examination of the civil war is too cursory. The civil war started with the Battle of Fort Sumter when the Confederate army attacked a Fort in the south that was still held by soldiers of the United States. If the South had not done that and instead played it peaceful, played it like Gandhi, the southern states would have successfully seceded, it would have only been a matter of time.

That was not the reason for the war. The First Battle of Ft. Sumter was provoked and a complete dramatization. The only soldiers to die were from a misfiring cannon, and from a 100 gun salute.

Abe Lincoln-
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to
save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave
I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and
if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.
What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps
to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it
would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I
am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing
more will help the cause."

reply to post by whatukno



True which is why every member of congress and the President and SC should all be arrested for sedition. The government was overthrown in 1933 and replaced with a de facto government and is in open rebellion to the Republic by setting up a socialist democracy, confiscating our money (gold and silver coin) and enslaving the people in a fiat money scheme that has stolen the wealth and future of the country. The scheme is finally coming unraveled but at great pain and suffering of the people. When the economy created by this false money system finishes crashing the people will have suffered the ultimate insult being broke and destitute and they will seek the perpetrators of these crimes and bring them to justice!

Whatuknow, oP, ARE YOU TRYING to talk yourself out of something?

I dont hear too many people here plotting anything. Its as if you are setting us up?

Its not nice. In fact, we are well aware such actions are criminal.

What are you doing????



[edit on 30-3-2010 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by whatukno
In fact in a way you are putting a lot of liability on the ownership of ATS for discussing such things on a public forum.

Not to mention they [ATS] are putting themselves at risk of being charged with providing material support to domestic terrorists. How many people here have praised known domestic terrorists as heros? How many people here are calling for action regarded as terroristic under the law?



[edit on 30-3-2010 by Lilitu]

reply to post by dgtempe

Whatuknow, oP, ARE YOU TRYING to talk yourself out of something?

I am trying to talk a few people out of something.

I dont hear too many people here plotting anything. Its as if you are setting us up?

Oh there are a few on this board who are actively posting their intentions to overthrow the government by force. I am certainly not setting anyone up.

Its not nice. In fact, we are well aware such actions are criminal.

Apparently not everyone is so aware.

What are you doing????

Disseminating information.

I thought it was treason and we could just execute them??

i mean it doesnt get more treasonous then trying to overthrow the greatest country on earth. Without our beacon of liberty to shine the light of freedom on the rest of the world, the world will collapse.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Without our beacon of liberty to shine the light of freedom on the rest of the world, the world will collapse.

LOL. Isn't the USA the nation with the highest per-capita of its citizens locked up in prisons?

Given that loose definition if 2 people were to conspire to steal mailboxes they would be guilty of sedition. You're right WUK, and frankly I wouldn't want any group that simply had the power to overthrow the government to be running the country.
We do need to walk a fine line however between freedom of speech and actions that would constitute sedition. I'm wondering exactly which is the case in the recent arrests of the "christian militamen".
Frankly, I don't trust the government to not fabricate evidence. They do it quite frequently.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Given that loose definition if 2 people were to conspire to steal mailboxes they would be guilty of sedition.

Not quite, that would be a different federal crime. (If there was mail in the boxes) Not sedition. The law is quite specific and simple. I did actually put the entirety of the law in the OP. If you do have questions, perhaps you can talk to a lawyer about them.

Of course, there are some that are confused when site management post changes in the board rules. They of course do this on purpose, and not because they actually have questions, they are simply trying to obfuscate the facts at hand, and confuse the issue unnecessarily. They understand perfectly what is going on, but try to get the ire of the site owners for their own sick little perverted pleasure.

Frankly, I don't trust the government to not fabricate evidence. They do it quite frequently.

I won't argue that the government hasn't fabricated evidence. All I am trying to do is show through verifiable facts, that planning on overthrowing the government through violent means is a crime, one that can get people in a lot of trouble.

This differs from a state seceding through a vote in the state, it differs from a change of government officials through elections.

This is about those (some of whom post regularly on ATS) who plan and subtly try and recruit others to join them in some ill conceived violent revolution. This is in fact a crime. It is Seditious Conspiracy.

Good post WUK...it needed to be said...because like you said...I don't think some on here really understand the seriousness of their comments here on ATS.

There are so many posts I would like to respond to...but don't have the time...but it is enough to say that I have agreed with all your responses to other posts.

S&F

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

What do you think of my post?

Pretty cool huh?

me like

i agree, in fact i made a video on that very topic ahhaha

Originally posted by whatukno
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2384

Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

You could be subject to a fine. Or you could be jailed for up to 20 years.

Sorry, your little song and dance with the Declaration of Independence doesn't cut it. It in fact is a crime to conspire to bring down the United States Government by force. Sorry internet revolutionaries. But those are the facts. In fact in a way you are putting a lot of liability on the ownership of ATS for discussing such things on a public forum.

so what? There comes a time in every nation that this can be used...and in this country it can...if there is a need for it..

besides very few people here are actually stupid enough to actually plan something like that...

waste if bandwidth for you because no one here is really that ignorant...

reply to post by whatukno


The DoI was illegal too.. didn't stop the colonies from disolving their alligence to the British Crown. I don't doubt that it's illegal, just saying.. point?