How would YOU build the new society?

Both society and the system are bankrupt. Political solutions to the problems we face are increasingly unrealistic via typical local organization. A new locale may be the best hope of designing the society we've all had stolen from us our entire lives.

The idea is we need to build beacons for hope and freedom. Lead by example, in ways unrealistic with all of us fragmented throughout the corrupted and ignorant society.

I hope this thread can be as much about ideas of how to get there as much as the ideas of what it should be.

Between the economic disaster we face with impossible national debt and entitlements, the 'NWO', and the looming techological revolutions that promise to make ordinary non-upgraded humans obsolete in work and society, no matter how you slice it new communities will have to rise that offer a solution of freedom and prosperity.

Lengthy discussions in my Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever. thread helped motivate this thread. While I agree with ZM that a new society is necessary, and appreciate some of ZM's ideals...
Please don't post in this thread if you think that AI 'Skynet' computers should run society and ration all global resources, or that humans should be effectively forced to take brain implants and other upgrades in order to have any hope of prosperity, that AI powered robots should replace as many human jobs as possible, that communism should be mandated globally or non-globally, or that all forms of currency (units of measure of worth) should be abolished.

There are plenty of ZM threads for that kind of talk or you can start a new thread.

The concept I envision is deeply rooted in libertarianism, with acknowledgement to sensible sustainability motivated by avoidance of being addicted to the system, rather than by radical Environmentalist paranoia.

I think that if thousands were to get together effective strategy could be implemented to buy up areas to build Unincorporated Areas with the goal of something bordering on Micronation status. The US Constitution (and appliciple state constituions) would be weidled as the legitrmizing tools(s) in such an effort.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

whoops, didnt mean to comment I meant to edit my OP.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

You would need to have a by-contract society. By that I mean you wouldn't be forced in by birth or location but that an individual would be able to choose to enter society after learning the laws and what was expected of them.

You would need to modify the economic system to reward producing abundance rather than scarcity as capitalism has the tendency to do, while still being able to harness human nature (AKA greed) to motivate people. You would want to base your currency on silver.

You would need to legalize all drugs and anything with the potential to be extremely profitable and tax it. This is because if you didn't someone within or outside of your society could destabilize your society and make themselves more powerful in the process.

You would need a long, clear, inflexible bill of rights that specifically states it cannot be violated using new technology or suspened under a national emergency.

You would need to keep your own government small by a law, something like no more than 1% of the population can work for government and no more than a certain low % of the economy can be the government's.

Make buying on credit illegal and running a deficit illegal. Forbid the trading of 'exotic' financial products such as derivatives and carbon trading (because they are usually frauds anyway). Regulate by offering rewards for whistleblowers on fraud but don't make a large government organization responsible for regulation.

Don't allow the military to be used as a police force. Make sure no armies are allowed domestically. Make foreign policy isolationist and strictly forbid 'preventive' war, and obviously 'aggressive' war.

Have a small sales tax and a tax on luxury items and drugs, but keep them low and forbid new taxes. Put a 'choice' tax in where people can give money to be used for a project they want, such as road improvement.

Make school focus on liberty as part of the curriculum, but don't force kids to go to school beyond basic elementary school and learning about the society.

Just a start, good thread.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


What I always like to do is replace public functions with private functions. Every public disaster of a solution has a vastly improved private version. So, I say we start with the most obvious ones and work toward the most complex problems. And the nice thing about this solution is anybody can participate in doing that starting any time.

For example, the Free State Project is starting a program to sign up merchants to accept silver as an alternative to the US Dollar. Its not perfect to be sure, but its a lot better. When that ball gets rolling, another topic on my mind is cooperatives to replace regulatory agencies like the FDA, or possibly health insurance.

And I'm just going to keep mentioning the Free State Project all the time now because it seems like the best option for restoring America. People in other states just don't seem to value liberty the way the "live free or die" state does. I think its a good way to set an example. People can see that liberty works in New Hampshire and they can emulate it in their own state.

If we want to work within the current constructs of society, promote freedom, and allow money and competition I see only one way forward.

100% Partnership companies

This means that all companies run as a partnership and all workers are partners. This would prevent absolute accumulations of wealth, while allowing innovation of the business model to a point where we could work less and automate more.

I wouldn't.

The very idea of "me" (an individual) building a society (which constitutes a collective of individuals) seems at best highly counter-intuitive and inefficient... at worst, being given that kind of authority vested in a single individual would result in tyranny and injustice.

Top down organization is the aberration in nature, really, and that we think order and complexity can only come from the top down is an illusion ingrained in our society and evolutionary/tribal history. Top down organization can be an effective method of interaction to guide the system towards desired goals (such as improving quality of life, increased security, and a progressive correction of injustices), but ultimately, societies are very much self-organizing bottom-up systems.

if everything was dis arrayed so bad that one person had to stand up and lead the people in a time with no structure and lets say hypothetically i was the one leadin this would be how it would break down!

let me lay it on our modern leaders thick! as i would do a better job in goals and preservation!

religion is a personal choice keep it to yourself unless someone strikes interest in your beliefs forcing opinion and religion on someone would be against the law as everyone has an opinion or belief just like everyone has an individual brain people can think as they choose! we are not animals to be told how to live!

money would not exist to acquire things you would either get what you wanted through acquiring your skills for trade or say your a hunter trading goods like fur and meat for what you want...but for the most part water,food and air is free everyone is entitled to it everyone has the right to the essentials that keep the body functioning

anything discovered or invented for the betterment of mankind would not be comphiscated by me or my men for the betterment to kill or keep from public use if determined man as a whole needs to the new discovery everyone will be entitled to it when it is produced to service those who wish it

no corporation = no corruption

the main goal of my society to find th ebest possible way to preserve mankinds future by using the same burning desire the old gov. had to kill and conquer and use it to leave this rock and enter the age of the cosmos! we are an endangered species aslong as all our eggs are on this basket called earth...so me being the leader i'am i will always think for the future and that means working today to leave tomorrow!

i think i pretty well hit the main points and changes i would make!

[edit on 27-3-2010 by metalholic]

How?
Starting out by making a new society Matriarchal based.

No, I'm not a feminist, I'd just like to see what the ladies could do with society for once - they did most well in the past.

I don't think there'd be near as much of the fighting (war) or outsourcing of jobs (keep your men at home, working, and your sons and jobs where you live, etc).

I also don't think the jails would be filled with dope smokers - but people who were a menace to society.

I also believe, truly, pedophiles would cease to exist for the most part.
Find 'em, prove it's them, kill 'em. Period. No more pansy-ing around bleeding heart wanna-be 'rehab' bs for child rapists, etc.

IMO advertising would change in a HUGE way eliminating the 'barbie doll' fantasy image, therefore giving young men and women a better body image to strive for and find normalcy acceptable and appealing.

Government? Do your job, represent and govern the people BY the people and efficiently - or you're out. No terms in congress/senate. Terms for heads of States and Countries? I don't know, what I do know (or believe) is women in charge wouldn't put up with failure repeatedly and only because a term was not finished. And I said 'Women in charge' not puppet women. (*cough choke* Pelosi).

I could go on all day - but you get the idea.

peace

reply to post by silo13


i respect your opinion! but in all honesty in the past giving females a chance would have been interesting but now-a-days not so much anymore women are as bad as men! by the time the 80's and 90's gen of women get older and take over positions there will hardly be a woman worth the trouble!

as with right now pretty hard for a 23 goin o 24 yr old male to find a woman whose faithful mature and can hold an intelligent conversation hell i've dated 30 yr old women that were as immature and bad as the ones around my age...good women are almost extinct!

I really really hope that you are a undercover member of the senate or Obama himself. Very good question to ask the people instead of the blind and money chasing idiots.

hey IIB ive been following up on your projects since 2005/06!=) I found you on myspace.

i havent yet seen zeitgiest but ive read about it, i hope it is on our side.

I just want to say that you blew my mind open with your wwys and darpa ixo videos, after that I really started researching everything for my self, well it started after my friend from myspace showed me loose change on aim in 2005, but that was also when i first found your initial myspace project. Dude it was mind blowing! mad props, plus i found music i liked also. securitron, pantera, dnb.

and im wondering wth happened to all the promises you made, dude i visit your wordpress every month, i love reading about your research and what you have to say.

about the tech dytopia you are so crazed about, well i see your issues, but you seem to have gone on an extreme. technology can be very benefical, i am especially fond of emerging technologys such as nanotech, A.I and biotech as it would make the world a closer reality of my dreams. seriously this world is still dull even with all the conspiracies under the veil.

anyways if i were going to recreate society i would want to have it done without money. In the near term i say we need way more government transparency and the majority of power should be held by the people not by the government.

reply to post by togetherwestand


I appreciate your appreciation!! In regards to my old film projects and those upcoming I posted a comment in my profile to not muddy up discussion here.

Moving on, don't get me wrong, I love technology. I've been surrounded with it my entire life, and have a degree in electronics engineering to show for it. I'm a technology professional.

But in contemplating things like nanotech, etc, the dangers are so vastly beyond all before them that a thorough assessment of the people and systems behind them is crucial. I've spent a good 5 years now in this thrust and the conclusion is daunting.

If the tyrants in charge get their nanobot brain implants there will be no stopping them from releasing them in municipal water supplies, or 'shots' like vaccines. This is something I havent written enough about.

With things like AI (AGI), humans only certainty to not be 'terminated' will be to merge into a borg like collective with said AGI.

With things like brain and body augmentation, tyrants or no tyrants, those who dont upgrade will be hopelessly doomed to obscurity.

I can cite the very mad scientists behind these thrusts all admitting my above allegations .

So the solutions are few...
1. Stop these tyrants NOW, or it will be too late to turn back.
2. Stop AGI & Transhumanism... problem is it will take a global dictatorship to do such.
3. Go off the grid and avoid the social meltdown which is basically the best case scenario if say the NWO is non-existent. This could be you taking off, or many working towards the new society.
4. Flee the country, save a little time from the above scenarios.
...and some other variations of the above.

And the thing is if you discard ideas such as the technology, tyrants, NWO you're still faced with imminent and unavoidable economic meltdown:
www.usdebtclock.org...

Even that aside, the political process is so perversely corrupted who can argue that the 'new society' concept might just NOT be the best odds at leading this backwards society out of the darkness?

Whatever the future holds, time is running out....

...I'm open to suggestions.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

 

For example, the Free State Project

I support the efforts of the FSP. But I also think its too limited. With 1.5 million people, in that 'tiny' space, how long does anyone expect it to take to lead the new renassance with 20,000 spread out amongst NH's masses? Idont totally knock it or anything, but if I'm to move odds are I'll be in Argentina before NH.

I also feel conned believing that NH residents are any different than the rest of the masses. Anyone recall "Live Free or Diebold"? All the talk of the "independents" of NH, but in the aftermath of the primary McCain stomped all the rest. It seems that independent in NH terms means they all support both the Global War on Terror, and 'Global Warming' as that is Insane McCain.

After extensive gardening the past year solid, even amassing about 350 different types of seeds, I'm convinced that such a new society will have the best odds of success in the deep south. Down here grow season is year round, as long as you know what to plant when. Other than that there are 2 main planting times for most of the warm weather stuff. A new society will NEED to provide most of its food for itself for best odds of success. It would take quite drastic change in NH for me to ever move there, I moved from Michigan to escape the COLD. So following this logic, Texas, Florida, and California would be the best places in this regard. The startup societies will need the best odds of survival. With success in leading the rest of the masses by example, then other more frigid places would be returned to prosperity anyways.

The next order of business is the looming need to disconnect from the federalized society as best as possible. The economic situation, the NUMBERS, prove this:
www.usdebtclock.org...
No? If we're all spread out too thin amongst the masses we collapse with them.

I'm kind sceptical that Mike Badnarik would move to NH. The reason is Texas is the only state where you have any hope of gaining allodial title:
en.wikipedia.org...

California is obviously a disaster of a place to attempt such an effort. So in absense of any other intel, to me it makes either Texas or Florida as ideal. If we could get a constitutional law expert to break down the pros and cons between the Florida and Texas constitutions in our context it would be a phenominal help. Other legalese issues to be compared would be laws concerning homesteading, squating, allodial title, sovereignty, and so on.

State income taxes are crucial. Neither Texas or Florida have them:
en.wikipedia.org...
Surprisingly, NH taxes "dividend and interest income".


[edit on 27-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

thats kind of ironic considering your fears of global government and constant awareness.

i dont think a new society starting in the south would stand a chance to the rest of the world, basically you are speaking of state succession and civil war.

any movements would get squashed and the land would be seized and inspected by national government.


micro nations really have no point, the world super powers can invade or eliminate them when ever they want.

disconnecting and going off the grid is the best way to go. but in this state of the world creating organizations and societies are very vulnerable if you threaten the system in any way. The best odds of survival is going undercover like the secret societies, and minimizing vulnerability.

also IIB if you manage to startup a society i would join your society any day man, lol i want to escape the cold of chicago currently. ;P
and i seriously want to talk to you in person.

reply to post by togetherwestand


Well, I argue that this mass society is nearing the tipping point of civil wars in different forms. And states are toying with the idea of succession.

*The 'technocalypse' scenario promises social meltdown like never before.

*The economic meltdown... oh boy. Disregarding the 39 million on food stamps, how many months would you give it before mass cannibalism would occur in the cities after food cannot be acquired from McDonalds or Walmart? Thats a serious question.

*Theres even hints of obsurd Left vs. Right civil war on the horizon. Oh my.

*Then theres rational concepts of it in the form of anti-NWO type motives, around whenever they might attempt to finalize the whole thing with no possibility of denial.

**And some other flavors, perhaps.

To me, its either attempt to slip off the grid in small bands and hope for the best, or the OP.

Facing the above odds, I think this world needs strongholds of freedom lovers. Come and slaughter thousands of us and watch how the world reacts. This dark world needs guiding lights, final bastions of liberty. The US as a whole is currently already lost. Too many have already given up and live in apathy and ignorance.

In a more positive light, consider how in US history the worlds great minds all flocked here, and look how far we all made as the result of so many diverse great minds in one big plankton soup. All the ideas, the invention and innovations. Soon this will happen again, it already is you could bet. But where will they flee to? The real lesson is, such societies of great minds will prosper if they come about.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

So come on lets hear it people. Are you willing to go down with ship?
www.usdebtclock.org...

Let me know is I miss any possible ways out...
*New societies.
*Off the grid into obscurity.
*Stick it out with the consumers.
*Move to Costa Rica (if you're loaded).
*Move to an island (if you're a multimillionaire).
*Move to Argentina (not a bad idea!).
*Move to New Hampshire (and hope theres time for their plan to work).
*Watch American Idol and forget about it.
*Buy a (big) house sailboat ($$$).

I've even thought long and hard about constructing artificial islands ("Waterworld"), for a few years now. Choice example:

The problem is building them so that they could handle the open seas.

If there's any other way lets hear it!

Society is so complex now that any replacement will almost certainly entail a massive rection in complexity. This is not necessarily a bad thing -- our society has already hit diminishing returns on complexity.

The challenge is to manage the transition from a high-complexity state to a low-complexity state in as smooth a manner as possible. This involves two key tasks: 1)We have to settle on an optimum level of complexity; and 2) We have to ramp down in an orderly manner that does not threaten the stability of the basic social functions (or at least threateans such stability as little as possible).

I think the more "backwards compatible solutions" we can achieve the better. It would be good to look at the transition from the bottom up. Start with individuals and families and their basic needs, and allow them to fill in the rest. Even something as simple as this is open to multiple lines of interpretation.

Once the "old order" breaks, it introduces a new element: the idea *itself* that the old order can be replaced. Once this happens, it will be hard to stabilize any new society at the same or similar levels of complexity for quite some time because people will have the idea that the order is not permanent. This will make them less likely to invest their time and energy in creating a new way of being.Thus a systemic breakdown introduces a new level of instability that will take years if not decades to resolve. The intrim period is likely to be unpleasant if history is any guide.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So come on lets hear it people. Are you willing to go down with ship?
www.usdebtclock.org...

Let me know is I miss any possible ways out...
*New societies.
*Off the grid into obscurity.
*Stick it out with the consumers.
*Move to Costa Rica (if you're loaded).
*Move to an island (if you're a multimillionaire).
*Move to Argentina (not a bad idea!).
*Move to New Hampshire (and hope theres time for their plan to work).
*Watch American Idol and forget about it.
*Buy a (big) house sailboat ($$$).

I've even thought long and hard about constructing artificial islands ("Waterworld"), for a few years now. Choice example:

The problem is building them so that they could handle the open seas.

If there's any other way lets hear it!

that island idea is stupid, in fact you become very vulnerable.
dude create a survival retreat, a place to hold all your possesions and be off grid.
could be a house,cave, in the mountains, underground, or whatever secure area.

and avoiding society all together isnt a good idea either. strike some balance.

Voluntary cooperation, mutual respect for others rights, 100% personal responsibility!

The basic law is "Oppress no one" Don't lie, steal, cheat, rob, plunder, or murder etc.. Any problems can all be judged from that perspective by thier local communities in assembly or council with 100% agreement not democracy.

No corporations allowed everyone is responsible and liable for thier actions no hiding behind limited liability and no lawyers. All contracts are enforced through sureties and arbitrators chosen before hand in the contract if a problem arises. buyer beware caveat emptor. Know who your dealing with before you enter a contract with them take responsibility.

So if you're not oppressing anyone or violating thier rights, or harming them you are free to do as you please. Anything more then that is oppression. We don't need thousands of volumes of statutes. Keep it simple so most everyone can understand.

Originally posted by silent thunder
The intrim period is likely to be unpleasant if history is any guide.

Valid points, but maybe not this one. I'm not talking about going all out like ZM and attempting to do it system wide. That would require enforcement and ultimately tyranny.

Originally posted by togetherwestand
that island idea is stupid, in fact you become very vulnerable.

I beg to differ. It's the only true sovereignty you could expect. And it involves true freedom of travel, etc. The concept isnt bad, but the practicallity of it falters. Imagine thousands of people doing this all over, all merge as a sort of confederation quazi micronation. The looseknit connection of this new body is the stronghold.