American Hostility

Hello and Greetings to all,
Considering the recent amount of u2u's i have been getting on a specific topic i thought it best to cover the answers to such u2u's here..i also would very much like to hear others thoughts and opinions on this of course..theres a question for everyone thats ever lived in America, was born to the nation and to those who love said nation...
Most of the mentioned messages i have been getting have been along the lines of my being anti-america(n), and that i am in fact a disgrace to the 'great power' which is the USofA..So please allow me to explain?

From birth to age 18 i happily lived in America, at 18 i moved to Wales for a couple of years, returned to America after those years to have my son there with my family, after 3 years of being there and trying to 'settle' yet not being able to for various reasons at the time.. one of those reasons were our newfound sight on the country we were living in. After those 3 years, we were digging and scratching to get out of the place and back to the mountains of Wales where we have been since and are finally settling down as a family.. the American dream does not include everyone, afterall. Ok thats my background of where i have lived, which of course gives me personal perspectives i now have..ok onwards-

First off, i am not anti-American as i did grow up in the country, i of course have many loved ones who have remained there..Nor am i 'anti-America' so to say..
That said, Yes, i do have a problem with the country, and that problem has come from my years living in it and removing myself from the place, enabling me to look from an outside stand point.. Moving to the UK in general was an eye opener in itself really as it was then i realized the nation and/or its people are not fondly thought of in many parts of Europe and the world.. despite what myself and all those in the country as children are brought up to believe. I guess a good way to put this is with the word 'disillusioned'..when things began to sink in at just how big the lies i, like many others in the place, had been raised by schooling, media and family to believe..I began to easily see problems with the country, that before i wasnt able to. Of course the extreme corruption of the government and legal/'justice' systems was a starting point..I began to see and understand the from birth onwards indoctrination that takes place, as it does in most other parts of the world of course.. it became easier for me to see al the of the lies and falsehoods that i once so firmly believed and took for granted to be truth for the years of my childhood and early teens..I recall being taught in school that America was the most free country in all of the world, that the States would never allow another Holocaust to happen in our time (ahem-the middle eastern PEOPLE that are being killed in droves), that the borders were in fact, secure.. and that the government truly cared for the well being of the masses. Each of the above topics i found to be absolutely false and its angered me more than a little.. it is a disapointment to say the least, and has, i admit, left me some what bitter regarding the topic of America..
Freedom and the saying that 'sensorship is un-American' simply is not accurate.. just the difference between whats allowed in UK news papers and television and what isnt allowed on the screens and papers in the US shows this.. one would imagine, were America an actual place of freedom, that would work the opposite way around.. I am sure most people recall Janet Jacksons breast of the super bowl! i was amazed at the shock horror and outrage in America when that happened.. in the UK i hardly think it would have even made much of a stir at all..
Throughout my whole life, as is the same with children and adults raised within the countries borders, you are not to question ones freedom, yet to simply accept they exist.. they are taught in school that their nation is the best and the most powerful.. delusions in which to keep the people lulled and with a false sense of security. I believe 9/11, for instance, was a psychological attack as well as physical attack of all Americans, because of that given sense of security that borders are safe, that wars and 'terror' attacks happen else where and through the television screen, but certainly not on US soil! So apart from the absolute atrocity of this event, the people were mentally shocked..putting them into a far easier state for them to accept commands and suggestion, thus becoming easy to manipulate (and most likely why so many continue to believe the 'official story')
I dont want to make this too long, but i want to point out my reasons for being so...against.. the US and the main part of that reason stems from the breaking of this illusion.. i am angry at the lies i was fed from birth by the system there, angry at how so very many people there still believe their childhood indoctrinated vision of their pride and joy land.. (i am aware that yes, all humans no matter country, are disillusioned, lied to and indoctrinated from birth, and all out controlled as the PTB want it for all man kind, but at this time i am speaking solely about America itself in this thread).. i am angry at the patriotism that i felt so strongly when i was younger.. the veil was smashed through years ago now, but i can not simply ignore or let it go, the country was based on a grand ideal, but by this point in time, its in a sad state indeed.. i feel for the people who are there, going through these rough times, and i worry greatly for my loved ones.. but so many will never see or understand, because they dont care to.. because they dont want to have that wall of bs torn down to see the country for what it really is..
The question is this.. to all Americans that currently reside there and for those who are American but no longer living in the country, how does it not get to you? or does it? I would really love to hear all points of view, openly and honestly without worry of offending anyone would be excellent! I can not be the only one whos angry, sad or left with broken, shattered illusions of this country? ....

I can see where you are coming from, and totally understand. I too believed and was indoctrinated into the same things that you describe. Us Americans really do believe we're the best people on the planet forgetting that theres 6 billion more people in the world with different cultures and ways of life. I joined the military when I was right out of high school, and saw firsthand the lies manipulation and favortism that plagues the U.S. military. After 8 years and trips to several countries seeing different cultures and ways of living I realized how wrong I had been about the rest of the world and how I had been "programmed" almost to think this way. I live in the deep south and the ignorance of most of the people here astounds me. And as much as they tell you that the american dream of getting rich is an achievable one, its just not possible for most people that are born into poverty. People asking me things like "how many of them ragheads did ya get to shoot while you was over there" and things like that really sicken me. I think if every Amering can could travel to a few different places in the world and see different cultures they would open their eyes to the manipulation thats been going on here for years.

www.guardian.co.uk...

We now have a young and vibrant national movement that is not afraid to call itself socialist, unifying, decentralist, internationalist, republican, anti-racist and green. It is a movement that rejects myth-based and "kith and kin" nationalism in favour of an outward-looking and inclusive Welsh identity. Its roots are in what the Welsh nationalist and socialist writer Raymond Williams called Wales's history of "authentically differential radicalism" and "communalism".


Are you serious? This does not sound any different than the good ole USA. Who is the one being indoctrinated here?

On various forums I've been regarded as anti American, I don't like the name American for US citz as it steals from all the other continental Americans North and South of the US, but I'm really not just don't like the imperial cut to your jib. Many in the UK won't even watch the Simpson's, like most of the stuff out of the US it is called American crap, from my experience the US is more popular in the UK than elsewhere in Europe, except perhaps Ireland, but that is not good because it's pretty unpopular in the UK.

As the OP says many of your perceived freedoms are tenuous or illusory, look at the behaviour of your police, economic freedom is important and in Europe Joe six pack lives a lot better than his US cousins.

Well said OP many won't like your message and in their anger will turn more against the US.

America subdued and castrated = Great Britian.

I too have noticed issues with a lot of people and their behavior/views since I was younger. Granted, it is not everyone, but there are many people who refuse to open their minds and try to understand the issues around them. We were taught that if we get through school (preferably college), get a job, and have a family, we won't have to worry about anything else. So many people are happy to just work and come home. Don't get me wrong, I love being home with my son at night. I just think people can do more these days to improve things around them (I don't have much room to talk, but I am trying to do more).

Here's my view on American Ideals: I don't think the ideals we were taught as children were all lies so much that they require a level of effort that many people are not capable of giving. First of all, I can guarantee that most people have no idea what the founding fathers had in mind for this country. Education is not high on everyones list, but I don't think this is only an issue in the U.S.

Secondly, the average person has no desire to read up on politics and stay current on the situations around them. They are happy being told what the 'problems with this country' are by the idiots on TV or other uninformed people around them. And for whatever reason this generation has been taught to look down on education to a degree. I'm sorry but if I have to take advice from someone about politics or economics or something, I'm going with the guy that spent 4 to 8 years studying it. Granted, even then take it with a grain of salt, but if you want to know the issues with a particular system, you need to know what those working in that system were taught.

Third, people need to have the gumption to work on issues while maintaining a level of decorum befitting adults. Right now we just seem to be picking sides and screaming at each other that the other side is wrong when usually those involved have no idea what the actual issues are. I have 7 other people who work in my office and as of yesterday at least 3 didn't even know that the government option of the healthcare bill was removed.

Now, I in no way feel that all of the U.S. is in this situation, but a lot of it is (same goes for the entire planet). I still believe things can improve, but the status quo is no longer sustainable and it will be a messy birth of new ideas in the coming years.

The World in general needs to rediscover its inherent self-respect and dignity.

I could go on, but I'll stop here.

America subdued and castrated = Great Britian.

+1

The UK was a great country before they went down the Socialist nanny state route towards devolution and the United States of Europe. I find it ironic that their "finest hour" (World War II) was also their downfall.

It is not a country that causes problems for its inhabitants but the people who run it. It is not the president that makes policy but the representatives we elect. Anit American sentiment is directed at an idea when it should be directed at certain individuals. Punishing the previous administration would show the world this concept. We are not all in the conspiracy, only a few of us.

I've often notice the haughty and high mindedness of the Europeans, especially those in the UK in their attitude of the United States of America (America). The jealousy is somewhat understandable. Some of the nations used to be empires, but are now just vassal states in loose union. They love to scrutinize America on things that are very illusionary in their own land. Most are socialist and serve the state more than cherish individual freedom. The point about Janet Jackson flipping out her breast on TV is a case in point. They say, "if you truly had free speech there, she could do that, so there !". But they don't understand that free speech means to be able to speak out on government failures and differences without being silenced as like in the UK for instance where if you criticize the government, they will stop you.

Today, this great nation is under attack by socialist commie democrats hell bent on destroying the nation. Those of us who cherish liberty and self determination, and personal responsibility will resist till they are defeated. This is the American way.

The OP couldn't get a piece of the American dream here in America, so she went to the UK where if you can't earn a piece, they will simply take it from someone who can and give it to her. But that's just the way it is over there, sad really. It's better to be poor with integrity than to get government handouts of the substance taken forcefully from others.

We kicked out old King George for very similar reasons. It was bad then and it's still bad today. Tyranny brings to ruin any nation but liberty fosters growth, prosperity, and patriotism due to it's ideals of freedom and personal responsibility. The dream is that you can make yourself to be something by your own effort unhindered by a big and demanding government that feeds off you like a blood sucking leech.

We will take our nation back from the socialist communist democrats in office today, and return it to what it once was. Watch us.






[edit on 26-3-2010 by Fromabove]

The jealousy is somewhat understandable. Some of the nations used to be empires, but are now just vassal states in loose union.

Agreed, I would be jealous too if my country lost 95% of it's prestige, it's standing on the world stage, and half it's military strength. The Royal Navy is now on par with some 3rd world African navies. My local police force has more firepower then most European armies.

Americans have always lived in a fictional nation. For the first 150 years or so, Americans lived in the glorious Future: one day, America would stretch from sea to shining sea, a beacon on the hill promising life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Andy Jackson proved that anyone could grow up to be President. There was no end to American resources or Industry. Just roll up your sleeves. Everyday in every way, things would get better and better. This attitude culminated in JFK's declaration of the "new frontier," which was then expressed in the vision of "Star Trek." Then something happened. As the reality of the cold war sank in, people began to dread the future. Increasingly, they lived in the glorious Past: when men were men and women knew their place. Where everyone worshiped in the same Church and cowboys lived by the Code of the West. Nobody had to learn foreign words like "pita" or "curry." The past that our ancestors tried so hard to escape from became the territory that so many now seek refuge in. The problem is Americans have a difficult time living here and now. We either live in a romanticized future or a romanticized past. Just look at the typical post here on ATS: "Death, horror, terror, end of the world 100% guaranteed April 15th!!!" Rubbish. Pathetic. Americans are stuck in reverse. They need to build the future they want instead of dreaming about the past or worrying about what someone else will make of the future.

Unfortunately, the only people who take the initiative are the greedy, the arrogant, the power hungry. They act in their own self interest, not those of the nation. They disregard the rule of law, both domestic and internationally, and do not care about the consequences. They use patriotic rhetoric to justify their selfish actions. And America dreams on about the Code of the West.

I understand exactly what you mean. You'll notice how often people will say: "I love Americans... it's America I hate." Americans can be frank, direct, resourceful, hard working and fun loving all at once. But their inability to see the present for what it is, or embrace the future consequences of their present, almost somnambulist actions makes them a danger to the peace and stability of the rest of the planet.

I'll step off the soapbox now.

Here's the problem I see. You were "disillusioned" as you put it because your (and many mistaken Americans and foreigners alike) definition of the American Dream is wealth and hapiness. It is not. It is the pursuit of this hapiness that is the American Dream, that no one should stop you from trying to achieve your definition of hapiness.

As for censorship in papers, yes, offensive language and nudity are censored, but as for news stories, the problem lies in the 5 or so people who control the entire media in the US. They decide what you see and hear. That is why many are on ATS now.

Is it naive for Americans to think they are the greatest nation ever? Yes, I can agree with that. It is a pretty pompous view for sure. While there are many problems here, some ongoing since the creation of the nation, its continues to change and adapt with each generation.

Thank you all for your replies, its very much appreciated..
will try to reply as much as possible before i have to go again for awhile!

ghostsoldier78: Its nice that you too have been to a number of different countries, were able to experience other cultures and customs..theres great benefit in doing so i feel. You are very right in your comments, but especially so about the type of people you are speaking of, if they were to travel, (and not tourist travel where you dont actually get to see the 'real' parts of the country your in)! they would have a better understanding and one would hope, a bit different a perspective...

ohioriver: Interesting read, thanks for that.. and ohh yes there are a lot of nationalists here, very very proud Welsh people, of their heritage, language and lands, their poets and so forth..there are of course the English haters who can no longer even tell you what the historical feud was about, let alone why they hate the English.. I can however assure you nothing about the area of Wales i am in couldnt be further apart from America and is not at all like it..how its run and organized is entirely different, and not really what that link portaits.

Thepreye: Yes i am preparing for the fire really lol.. and thank you also for understanding why i was explaining myself, and am sorry you have had the same kind of messages about being anti-American..you are right that the US is quite popular in the UK, but amongst the younger generations more so than the older more stable minded folk lol.. the youth have a certain impression of the country due to television shows, music and celebrities from what i have noticed.. it seems all so glamouress to them here because they dont understand its nothing like what they see on their tvs..again with the disillusionment.. having met others that are citizens of the UK who lived in the US for any length of time, in various parts of the country, have returned to live here for their own personal reasons, but many have said it just wasnt what they expected..i guess is the right word ..

Since some posters have chosen to reference "The American Dream", I thought it might be helpful to post a few quotes about that concept by the man who coined the phrase, James T. Adams. He said:

"The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position".

He further said:

"The American Dream, that has lured tens of millions of all nations to our shores in the past century has not been a dream of material plenty, though that has doubtlessly counted heavily. It has been a dream of being able to grow to fullest development as a man and woman, unhampered by the barriers which had slowly been erected in the older civilizations, unrepressed by social orders which had developed for the benefit of classes rather than for the simple human being of any and every class".

The American Dream is as much about shedding the chains of classism imposed by noble bloodlines as much as anything else. It's about having the freedom and opportunity to achieve whatever goals you desire, whether they be financial, educational, or of power and influence. It's about being measured and judged based upon who you are, and not who your parents were.




[edit on 26-3-2010 by Pyros]

Dredge: Thank you very much for your thoughts on this,
I agree very much so with your points, and i too believe education is a vital key that does seem more and more steered from in some houses, unlike the huge encouragement to become educated that others have had from their home.. for some i can understand their problems with the education system as a whole, as far as it being so greatly governmentally ran and restricted to what is taught in schools.. but at least one would think the basics would still apply no matter who was running them..reading, writing, maths and social interaction..I also agree about the battling of each side, its constant and it accomplishes nothing on either side! energy that could very well be spent in far better ways

earthdude: And another post i agree with..i do see your point, and yes it is the kind of scenerio where the few ruin it for the many.. the countries problems werent kick started by the average joe public, but it does seem many of that public helped it along (mostly of course without knowing they were) and wounds never healed, and old problems festered..the country itself has absolute beauty in many areas of many states within it..the country should not be blamed, those controlling and pushing things along in such terrible ways should be.. it would be a wonderful day for many to see Bushs' slimey little face behind bars or death sentenced better yet.. but sadly, they prove to be 'above the law' again...

Fromabove: Ok.. where to start lol..i want to make something very clear first of all.. you know nothing about me, nor of my life or reasons i have made certain choices in that life.. i am not some pouty little american priss who couldnt make it on her own in the great big 'land of the free' and ran to the UK where its 'easier'.. we do not count on nor use government assistance for anything (not that theres anything wrong in doing so, i am not a citizen here and of course abide the laws) and my partner and i both bust our asses day to day in order to keep a roof over our head.. but you are right in that the government assistance programs in the UK are a great deal better worked out than in the US so i guess to certain people that would be the same as it being 'easy'..
When i lived in America after my first time out of the country living here, everything felt fake..plastic even.. the land itself pretty much dead in energy, where as here and in Europe entirely its richer, more substantial and the lands vibrate with energies.. it is one of the three Celtic lands.. which has to enhance energies if one knows or works with them at all... anyhow.. you also dont want to talk to me about being poor with integrity.. again knowing nothing about me, your accusations are petty and childesh, with your over all tone, i am not at all suprised...and you of course would know nothing of my child hood. my family were way below 'legal' poverty lines, and had a wonderful life together.. money is not my concern in this world, nor are material items.. they never have been a life goal of mine thankfully..
and good, please take the nation back.. and keep it because those who take it back are still going to be arrogant, up their own backside and eventually (sooner rather than later most likely) mess up everything again over power and greed..

i must go for now, but will return later to reply

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Full_Vision]