After an example Like Climate-Gate, You Still trust Scientists about the BIG questions?

I really need to understand something. Why is it that people are so easily blinded by their own hypocrisy? I readily admit right up front that I am a Christian. So yeah, I have been influenced by men to become what I am. I have chosen to believe certain things for myself, based on logic and evidence. That means that I have to bias against supposed “evidence” for all other world views. That’s how it works.

But you know what, so has EVERYONE. Whether you are an atheist or pagan or whatever, you are what you are, and you believe what you believe because someone has convinced you to believe it. No one “comes to there own conclusions.” Everyone is convinced by someone or some experience or some “evidence” that they chose to except as the truth. Everything that Everybody believes is FAITH, because nothing can be trusted 100%. Have you seen the scientists run their experiments? Have you seen the data that they have interpreted? So you have Faith that what they have concluded is accurate? And you have faith that they are not biased and don’t have an agenda? Now that takes some MASSIVE faith

Notice that I said in the title, why do you still trust “Scientists” not “Science.” Scientists are PEOPLE. It is there job to take the evidence around them and come to conclusions and explanations based on their interpretations. In a recent poll, the majority of people against Christianity said they did not believe the Bible because it was written by men. Now that can mean many things.

It could mean that these men back in the day were not smart enough to know about the physical world, so there views were skewed. It could mean they intentionally set up a misleading system in a power grab against gullible people. It could even mean that they just believed a lie and propagated it.

But this leads me to chuckle, because the question I always want to ask is…Aren’t scientists people??? Are they not biased and fallible at best and at worst have a down right agenda to push (Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens comes to mind) How is it that over 50 some men (authors of the Bible), a whole nation (Israel), and millions of people today (Christians) are biased and wrong, BUT several 100 or so scientists are right about whatever they say?

I think the recent climate-gate scandal is a perfect example. These “trusted” scientists manipulated data, skewed their results, and fabricated evidence to push an agenda. So I ask you this. They will do this to push climate change, but they won’t do it to disprove God??? Most scientists’ DEFAULT position is that God does not exist, so they will explain everything in that light.

So the point is… Please ask yourself what do you believe and most importantly why. Do you not believe in God because you are mad at your parents? Happens all the time. Bitter kids grew up in a “fundie” home and now they hate God. REALLY… That’s what you are going to hang your hat on? “I had a rough childhood and now I am going to be the opposite of my parents because of it.” Seems like a weak faith to me.

Did some whimsical teacher or writer tickle your ears with their God hate speech? Did the cheerleader Richard Dawkins stir you all up inside? I have seen him speak, boy does the crowd love his PREACHING. What is it? What MAN do you put your faith in? We all do it.

reply to post by trueperspective


The difference is scientists have to adhere to the scientific method. Even in cases where data has been falsified this will come to light thanks to the nature of the scientific method. When a person publishes results they must provide the exact methods they used so others can repeat the experiment and verify whether or not the results that were produced are accurate. Furthermore, scientists rely on empirical measurements and operational definitions that state exactly what they are measuring. The very nature of books like the Bible make them impossible to verify using scientific means and instead require you to take what is said based strictly on faith. While scientists are men and they do have agendas there is a system of checks and balances in place, whereas with the Bible you are not supposed to question what it says and simply take it as the word of God.

There is nothing in so called climategate it's just a tabloid topic for the earth is flat population. If you noticed the protests during Climate conference, hundreds of thousands of people came to protests about govt.'s loose steps to tackle climate problem. The govt. is not doing enough and has not even started taking effective steps to contain global warming and stop man made pollution which is destroying the environment.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by December_Rain]

blind faith in anything is bad. experts can and do, lie...

Actually climate gate has since proven to be the media's misunderstanding of science terminology. Journalists have always skewed statistics and scientific data to make a story more sensational and therefore sell more papers. Here is an article regarding climate gate:

www.treehugger.com... =Feed%3A+treehuggersite+%28Treehugger%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Also, i would recommend reading Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. He essentially torpedo's a lot of the scientific evidence used by the media to sell stories and products to the general public that we don't really need.

"Most scientists’ DEFAULT position is that God does not exist, so they will explain everything in that light."

I don't think thats entirely true. Do you have any proof?

reply to post by stooge247


Well, have you asked a scientist in any "reputable" University if he will even consider the fact that their might be God (as in the Christian God) I really doubt you will get a "yes"

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Well actually you are wrong. Evolution is NOT in any sense of the word based on empirical evidence.

1) No man has ever seen one "family" of animal evolve into another "family" of animal. Like say a duck into a lizard.

2) As far as I know time travel doesn't exist, So no man has experienced the past empirically. So everything we have as "evidence" must be examined and interpreted as to it's historical context.

3) Again, no man saw the beginning of the Universe, So there will never be empirical evidence about it's origin.

So NO, science about origins is NOT based on empirical evidence. It is based on faith.

And since I've been moved to the RANT section, I'll go ahead and say...I like how another guy (JR) gets to create a Post called "The real EVIL is religion" or something like that, but my post gets bumped to the BTS RANT board. uhhh, no bias there. He basically went on a rampage against Christianity and he gets put on front page of ATS, but my post... Buried in BTS.

reply to post by trueperspective


This happens to me all the time.LOL
I have a thread here on ATS that I have tried to get hashed out.
It was my hypostasis over 22 years ago.
I tried knocking down the doors at The National Institute of Health.
I wrote letters, I called and talked to some of the leading geneticist.
That far back they would even answer the phone once in a while.
A year ago I contacted the head of the genetic division of the NIH's alcohol research.
I sent him my hypostasis and he was good enough to read it and comment that I was mistaken.
Since posting here myself and a few other members have post some recent data
and studies that pretty much proves my hypostasis correct.
There are still parts of it that they will eventually figure out to be true also.
The sad part of this is they are so far off base with their genetic programs it is shameful.
The amount of wasted time and money is staggering. IMO these researchers are fraudulent.
And yes since I have sent the guy from NIH new mail with the new studies he won't even answer my mail.
I should post his name position and his replies to my emails of a year ago and show he was clueless of the new studies and there meaning.
As you say science is fine it is the scientists that abuse the grants and run the scams.

reply to post by trueperspective


I am a Psychology major in a semi-well-known university on the East Coast, and there are quite a few professors who are religious. One of my professors even used to teach at a Jewish University.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Nice to know that you are a student of the mind.
That is what all this nonsense about. And you should know this better than most. If your are at least average in your grades.
The whole idea of this exercise about ideology is really moot and nothing new.
It is about control of the mind. The sooner the better. People have indoctrinated there children since day one. And they have used every trick under the sun. And every government and opposing government has tried to preempt that so that they can have total control of those kids to build a better Sparta. (a Greek City State). Science is used like this today. It is controlled by the state or government through licence or curriculum. You are buying an education that is approved by others. Unless you self educate as well you will pigeon hole your self. (you narrow minded).
What I am trying to get at here is -if you do not the know the opposing view from the eyes and minds of those you disagree with then you cannot form logical assumptions or conclusions about there thinking (walk a mile in my shoes).
Science is nothing more than the observation of the past. Any thing more is just wishfully thinking.
When it comes to creation of life, the earth, the cosmos ---NO ONE can be correct at this present time.
If you choose to accept that science is the answer, IMHO rock -on , If you choose to embody the strength of faith IMHO rock-on.

Bare in mind and I stress this-- Creationism is NOT a Christian invention, Christ IS a Christian Reality.
Fact. Recorded history.
Now using logic God being the creator has been around for thousands of years and the notion of that has been accepted by many BILLIONS of good, progressive, artistic, friendly , intelligent, sexy, productive , humble, courageous, inventive, funny, dedicated, handsome, pretty, inspired, dedicated and persistent folks.
When you dig DEEP and I mean search your soul if you think you have one. You will then never question any one's belief unless you think they are trying to change yours. Or worse your children's.