HCR Bill Paves the Way for Amnesty for Illegal Aliens

reply to post by WTFover


Step away from Glen Becks chalkboard. Put the, no, put the chalk down. Step away from the chalk board.

Holy heck! That's a giant leap of failed logic!

reply to post by whatukno


I don't know what Beck has had to say about this. I've only seen a total of about 2 hours of his shows. After I wrote the OP, I found I had an email with a World Net Daily article, explaining Limbaugh had discussed something similar.

After finding that, I wondered when someone would call me out on it and think I took the idea from there. I swear, I had this thought, last night, when I couldn't sleep. I'd read that portion of the bill, yesterday.

Anyway, do you have an explanation for the exclusion?

reply to post by whatukno


That was hilarious, what exactly did it mean though?

What exactly was the failed logic?

You know wuk, I am going to have to follow you around on your posts. You seem to have an agenda against anything DEM.

Are you a closet totalitarian? Elitist?

What exactly is it that you get off trying to manipulate emotions?

Please, inform us WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA HERE?

I have looked through hundreds of your posts. I do not understand your positions. Also, you have NEVER stated them.

Boy, that sounds FAMILIAR.

Please, enlighten us on your positions.

Originally posted by WTFover


Anyway, do you have an explanation for the exclusion?

Don't worry it's well known that talk show hosts like Beck and Rush troll sites like these for material and info, so there's a good chance they might 'expand' on your ideas for one of their later shows.

Seriously though, I think the exclusion was specifically stated simply to appease Republicans who were concerned (vocally, I might add) that illegal immigrants would be covered in this bill.

Remember "You lie!"? That little outburst was specifically aimed at Obama's assurances that illegal immigrants would not be covered.

The Democrats knew that the bill would never pass if it had coverage for illegal immigrants, because in this country illegal immigrants are considered sub-humans who do not deserve to breathe the sweet free air of America. Just look at Sos's reply to my post, where he compared illegal immigrants to convicted murderers.

So they put the blatant exclusion in to make it 100% certain that there would be no coverage for illegals, thus ensuring that there would be no 'misinfo' spin by Republicans claiming otherwise.

That's my take on the situation. However, I do agree with you that amnesty is an inevitability (for better or worse), and that this wording could be an allusion to that happening in the future.

reply to post by endisnighe


I'm sure you know WUK is an "Independent Candidate 11th Congressional District". Aren't the things you pointed out, the markings of a real politician?

Just joking WUK. We've disagreed before, and I'm sure, will again. But, that's what keeps thing interesting, huh?

Originally posted by drwizardphd
So they put the blatant exclusion in to make it 100% certain that there would be no coverage for illegals, thus ensuring that there would be no 'misinfo' spin by Republicans claiming otherwise.

That makes sense, but the only exclusion (I've found so far) is related to the tax/fine incurred by those who do not obtain insurance.

reply to post by WTFover


Your op had the distinct ring of one of Glen Becks giant leaps of failed logic to it.

Illegals aren't getting healthcare. But somehow, some way, you took that exclusion to mean amnesty for illegals, for the life of me, I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that the exclusion means amnesty.

I just imagined you in front of that chalk board for a moment.

reply to post by endisnighe

Please, inform us WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA HERE?

Well what I hope to accomplish if elected is very good for the country and freedom. I am sure ill have to drag you kicking and screaming through it, then in the end when it hits, you will understand what I want is what is best for the country. Sure it won't make any sense at all at first, but please just trust that there is method to my madness.

[edit on 3/23/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by endisnighe

 

I'm sure you know WUK is an "Independent Candidate 11th Congressional District". Aren't the things you pointed out, the markings of a real politician?

Just joking WUK. We've disagreed before, and I'm sure, will again. But, that's what keeps thing interesting, huh?

Well dude I think it is a interesting theory, I take it at face value as that is what I would do to lessen the sting... (not including illegals)

No worries if any talking heads have brought forth the same ideas, I think you're 100%
solid and have no need to parrot!

We shall see, hope you're wrong

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Janky Red]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by WTFover

 

Your op had the distinct ring of one of Glen Becks giant leaps of failed logic to it.

Illegals aren't getting healthcare. But somehow, some way, you took that exclusion to mean amnesty for illegals, for the life of me, I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that the exclusion.

I just imagined you in front of that chalk board for a moment.

reply to post by endisnighe

 

Please, inform us WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA HERE?

Well what I hope to accomplish if elected is very good for the country and freedom. I am sure ill have to drag you kicking and screaming through it, then in the end when it hits, you will understand what I want is what is best for the country. Sure it won't make any sense at all at first, but please just trust that there is method to my madness.

I don't think WTF is like that... Even though he is not on my "side" I just think it has to do with ideological orientation... Just like some conservative ideas may same to be insidious plots in your eyes, I would likely see it the way you do with out any discussion
on the matter.

Just my two cents

Not going to address anyone here, BUT, I have seen the HOPE AND CHAINS speech before.

Sorry, I will not allow that to happen again to this country.

We have already seen what GW lite has brought us, ALL the SAME thing AGAIN.

You know, I was hoping that the asshat from NOWHERE would actually be NOT another sock puppet, I guess we have seen the ending of that. Just another corporatist warmonger.

PLUS, he expands the FEDERAL RESERVE power. WOW, he is like a demon on amphetamines.

Isn't he just SO FRELLING GREAT!

People SUCKED in by Dems are dumber than my redneck friends thinking that Obama is the AC. Sorry, Hell in a handbasket comes to mind.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by sos37

Let's take your fuzzy logic a step further.

What problem do I have with murderers? They are most likely citizens of the U.S. right? Take away the fact that they are murderers and have committed a felony and they're citizens or people, just like you and me, right? Let's approve amnesty for them while we're at it since we're in the business of forgiving felonies.

You're comparing the crime of murdering another human being to living in a country illegally...

And yet you accuse me of "fuzzy logic".

Well done. I can see that rational thought is obviously not your modus operandi tonight.

Yep, I do. Are they both felony offenses in the eyes of the law?

Thank you for reiterating my point.

Originally posted by sos37


Yep, I do. Are they both felony offenses in the eyes of the law?

Thank you for reiterating my point.

Actually no, being an illegal immigrant is not a felony offense under United States law.

This is just silly, so I'll leave it there. I don't really want to waste my time arguing with somebody who lacks the moral integrity to differentiate between the murder of another human being and living somewhere without filling out the right paperwork.

The illegals can have their citizenship, the new health care plan is going to screw this nation and ultimately cause the STHTF. Oh Bomb America has done his job, the rift is opening at an alarming rate... which side are you on?

Well my friend, your perspicacity and prescience seems to be, as usual, spot on, given this current thread based on this article. I figured this thread has earned a well deserved bump.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Actually no, being an illegal immigrant is not a felony offense under United States law.

This is just silly, so I'll leave it there. I don't really want to waste my time arguing with somebody who lacks the moral integrity to differentiate between the murder of another human being and living somewhere without filling out the right paperwork.

Illegal Immigrant himself might not be a felonious crime, but what that individual does to stay in this country is. Stealing an Identity to commit fraud or Lying about ones identity to commit fraud in order to gain employment.

So Illegal Immigrant can be tied to a felonious crime because they all employ the use of fraud to gain employment or avoid being labeled as an illegal.

Also in the words of the ever so enlightened JOE WILSON directed at those who are opposing the OP.

YOU LIE







[edit on 23-5-2010 by prionace glauca]

Originally posted by drwizardphd


So, when they are simply citizens, and not illegal aliens, what is the problem exactly?

Read
Signature
Below

Amnesty isn't even close to being an answer. You would have slapped everyone that did it the right way in the face by rewarding the ones that snuck in here. On top of that, what do you think will happen once they get full rights as U.S. citizens? They will have to be paid minimum wage and the only reason companies hired them for was cheap labor. You are gonna see prices on services normally done by illegals go up to cover their new payscale. Alot of them will end up out of work and then apply for unemployment, welfare, and foodstamps. We can't even take care of the ones living off the government now.

And the evidence is made known

Some members of the [Congressional Hispanic]caucus almost withheld their votes for health reform over what they saw as punitive, anti-immigrant measures in the bill, which bans illegal immigrants from using newly created exchanges to buy insurance, even with their own money, and maintains a five-year waiting period for legal residents to enroll in Medicaid.

They signed on only after receiving assurances that their concerns would be rectified as part of the immigration reform battle, according to lawmakers, advocates and Hill aides.

“The expectation was that everybody knew it was unfair and that a new immigration bill would correct that,” Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) told POLITICO.

Asked at what level he received such signals, Grijalva said: “High enough to feel secure about it.”

“There was a widespread sense in the community that immigrants were thrown under the bus in health care reform, and there was a sense that there would be a moral obligation to undo some of the damage,” said Deepak Bhargava, executive director of the Center for Community Change, an immigrant rights advocacy group.
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To Democrats, the issue is undebatable: Once undocumented immigrants move into a temporary protected legal status — which they would gain after a bill passes and while they apply for citizenship — the exchanges would open up to them because they would no longer be illegal.
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Still, they say Obama set the stage last year for this push to make sure that current illegal immigrants become legalized and receive benefits.

Read more:

Hispanic Democrats Want Health Care Fix

www.politico.com...

Additionally, the three page article goes on to address a probable catastrophic burden upon the Medicaid system, with 86% of illegal immigrants being financially eligible for benefits, if they are suddenly placed in "legal" status.

More important aspects of the article:

“The expectation was that everybody knew it was unfair and that a new immigration bill would correct that,” Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) told POLITICO.

Asked at what level he received such signals, Grijalva said: “High enough to feel secure about it.”

“There was a widespread sense in the community that immigrants were thrown under the bus in health care reform, and there was a sense that there would be a moral obligation to undo some of the damage,” said Deepak Bhargava, executive director of the Center for Community Change, an immigrant rights advocacy group.

To Democrats, the issue is undebatable: Once undocumented immigrants move into a temporary protected legal status — which they would gain after a bill passes and while they apply for citizenship — the exchanges would open up to them because they would no longer be illegal.

Still, they say Obama set the stage last year for this push to make sure that current illegal immigrants become legalized and receive benefits.

I think that last line says it all. But, of course, the administration denies making any such promises:

An administration official rejected the notion that Obama made any agreement beyond pledging to push an immigration overhaul.

Read more: www.politico.com...

Mods: I felt it necessary to include all of the notable excerpts, as any will not read the entire article and may failt to see the connection to the OP.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by WTFover]