Tofino aims to ban the likes of Starbucks, Tim Hortons, McDonalds

I find this post spot on. I watched the shenanigans of Walmart in the little town I lived in in Maine! At least a year before they started to build they sent their 'secret shoppers' force into all the little towns businesses and recorded prices for nearly everything they had in their stores.

When Walmart opened, they undercut every price by at least 25% and absorbed the loss from all the other Wally Worlds combined. As the stores closed because they could not compete. The prices for items in that store at WM rose. The more the stores closed the more the price went up. In the 6 little towns surrounding this WM most of the stores are boarded up or have been turned into apartments or some just left vacant!

They have used this tactic everywhere they go. They are leeches. And yes,I also shop there and it pisses me off to no end because there is nowhere else to get many of the tings I need!

Zindo

If only entire countries were allowed to keep people like McD's and Starbucks out.

But of course, that's globalisation for ya.

reply to post by rich23


I dunno... I'm split on the effort to keep franchises out of the loop entirely. There's a place for them, but not at the expense of small business. I LIKE the one-owner diners, clothing shops, grocery stores and what-not that are run by the locals and haven't 10,000 franchises worldwide, but, on the other hand, appreciate the ability to create franchise businesses.

There has to be a middle ground, imo.

The really international chains should not replace small business entirely. The production of goods and services should not be obtainable by a few conglomerates which don't care about the country that they do business in

All of North America can't go Tofino... it wouldn't work, but something has to be done to blunt this race for the bottom which, to me, is the cheapest goods produced by the lowest paid workers and sold to the growing pool of unemployed and disenfranchised (pun intended).

If only the large franchises followed the trend of upscale coffee shops (for instance) located in town centers and catering to those who are shopping/walking around downtown, then it would revive all kinds of other businesses. Go smaller, carry less and focus on particular goods alone.

I love the local bakeries and butcher shops I USED to be able to frequent. Now they're gone because even dry goods stores like Walmart carries grocery products and grocery stores carry dry goods. Eventually, if this carries on, there'll be ONE store for everything and only a few jobs for the whole town.

Imagine one big store which carries everything one needs (food, cars, lumber, tools, gasoline, gifts, clothing, gardening and farm supplies, etc.), owned and operated by an international corporation like Walmart and which employs 25 people in a town of 25,000. What would be left to employ the rest? It's getting close to thay already.

I don't agree with keeping such big franchises out of countries, but I do think there needs to be a 'middle ground' somewhere so that new opportunities are availabe.

It's like introducing Coho salmon into a small lake full of speckled trout. It won't be long before the Coho eat all the small trout and then, guess what happens (?)... all the big salmon eat the small salmon until there's nothing left alive in the lake.

So, people shop at these places because they provide what you will buy in an atmosphere you'll buy it in.

The problem is that you want those things.

And you don't want to go to 15 stores to get them.

I don't necesarily disagree with the dislike of mercenary tactics that lead to oligarchies.

But there are REASONS why they are happening.

Do I like small stores? Sure.

I also like being able to get what I want and go home. And not spend my money on gas going 15 locations. Or my time by hoping that by picking through 10 stores I might find what I need.

You all want to hate these places. And you want to pretend that YOU don't shop there.

But their profits speak to the fact that you do. And you do so for a REASON.

reply to post by Aeons


Thats not even really true, I remember the shopping and the downtown areas, and really enjoy avoiding Walmart and the others as much as possible. If you live in a huge city, its harder to drive around, but in small towns, (and trust me, Tofino isn't large, not is any of the much larger centers up the 50,000 capacity), theres no real need for these super giants, nwo gangsters, in fact, in large cities, arranged in neighborhoods, properly, there isnt either.

There is no reason for it, people have just gotten used to it, they can easily get unnatached as well.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Unity_99]

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
I have a question for all of the anti-Wal-Mart/McDonalds/etc activists out there. Why is it that whenever a Wal-Mart opens somewhere, thousands of people line up for jobs, thousands more go to shop, and yet it seems it is such an evil company. Does Wal-Mart put mom and pop stores out of business? Sure. However, more often than not those businesses were already on shaky ground before Wal-Mart came in to deliver the killing blow.

Like it or not, by providing thousands of jobs to people who would otherwise be unemployed and keeping prices so insanely low, Wal-Mart is one of the great anti-poverty programs in this country.

Um, are you familiar with Tofino?

Tofino is a village of about 1,650 residents on the west coast of Vancouver Island, in British Columbia, Canada, located at the western terminus of Highway 4, on the tip of the Esowista Peninsula, at the southern edge of Clayoquot Sound.

en.wikipedia.org...

There's no thousands to employ, let alone that many to shop.

Tofino is a lovely little village with an economy that surrounds ecology and tourism. They have every right to keep what's been working for decades. You want a Big Mac? Drive the 2 hours to Nanaimo.

reply to post by Unity_99




By why would you?

Seriously? You like wasting your time?

I don't have lots of time to waste. I do as much as I can in a day, and every day I still have a laundry list of things that need to be done.

Adding hours and hours onto my day for your political ideals isn't high on my list of priorities.

Tofino wouldn't have a Walmart. 2000 people? Roads to nowhere? Unless you think whales have wallets, there would be no reason. This grandstanding is literally pointless.

What makes you think you have the right to tell people that they MUST not drive to a store that stocks what they need, is convenient, and doesn't waste their time?

What makes you think you have the right to determine that shopping at ten stores and walking there is better for me? Is there some political penance thing? Is this like I drive and so I should say ten Hail Marys in the form of Hail Ten Local Stores that Between Them Carry What I Want.

You fail to address that the reason these stores exist is that they fill a consumer need. That isn't being filled, and that is why they prosper.

Your finger wagging that *I* should spend MORE of my precious time attempting to find what I need for provisions on a weekly basis because it seems to fit with your concept of pioneering spirit doesn't fly when I don't stop working from 6:30 am to 9:30 pm every day already.

Tofino's political types made a point that is quite silly because there is no threat of most of those franchises showing up there anyways - and you clapped for them grandstanding on an issue they don't have.

[edit on 2010/3/23 by Aeons]

Originally posted by Aeons
By why would you?

Seriously? You like wasting your time?

I don't have lots of time to waste. I do as much as I can in a day, and every day I still have a laundry list of things that need to be done.

Adding hours and hours onto my day for your political ideals isn't high on my list of priorities.

Ain't life a bitch. I used to work 7 days/week. I still found the time to drive an hour if I wanted a Whopper. No Burger King here. You want it, go get it. Personally I find it selfish to equate ones needs over the majority.

What makes you think you have the right to tell people that they MUST not drive to a store that stocks what they need, is convenient, and doesn't waste their time?

What gives anyone the right to tell the rest of the community what they should do to the town for a selfish residents needs?

A community is the same people. The consumer and the citizen aren't seperate entities with one doing onto the other.

They are both hats worn by the same people. The consumer and the resident are the same person. You cannot pretend that they are separate to make a conflict between groups that contain the same sub-set of people in each.

Mary the citizen shops a Evil Store X that displace the ten stores that used to exist. Bad Mary.

Mary's community has had several stores removed by Evil Store X. Poor Mary.

Mary is the same damn person. Mary isn't working against Mary. No matter how much you might want to portray it that way.

Originally posted by Aeons
Mary is the same damn person. Mary isn't working against Mary. No matter how much you might want to portray it that way.

Mary used to work at a dress shop which sold clothes made in America. Then Walmart came in and the dress shop was closed because it couldn't compete. Now Mary is unemployed and has to shop at Walmart because she can't afford anything but cheap Chinese clothes.

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Aeons
Mary is the same damn person. Mary isn't working against Mary. No matter how much you might want to portray it that way.

Mary used to work at a dress shop which sold clothes made in America. Then Walmart came in and the dress shop was closed because it couldn't compete. Now Mary is unemployed and has to shop at Walmart because she can't afford anything but cheap Chinese clothes.

Mary's employer closed because her neighbours wanted to buy cheaper clothing.

Mary goes back to school in the evenings and realizes that there is a niche market that Evil Store X isn't fullfilling that utilizes her previous talents.

Mary becomes entrepreneur. Mary might even move because Mary has that option, instead of wallowing like she doesn't have choices.

Originally posted by Aeons
A community is the same people. The consumer and the citizen aren't seperate entities with one doing onto the other.

They are both hats worn by the same people. The consumer and the resident are the same person. You cannot pretend that they are separate to make a conflict between groups that contain the same sub-set of people in each.

Nope. This is a village of under 2000 people. Larger companies are looking at this quint town, not for it's residents, that couldn't sustain these corporations but the tourist dollars. You know that "tourist" and "resident" are diametrically opposed, right?

Tofino caters to two tourist profiles. The first are the ones that seek ecotourism and the second are the ones that seek cultural tourism.

Ecotourism: There is an overall trend in the tourism industry that is slowly shifting from resort beach type vacation destinations to more eco-friendly, nature discovery type destinations. Tofino’s focus on ecotourism as allowed it to reap the benefits of this trend. It is estimated by the World Resource Institute that eco-tourism is growing at a rate of 10% to 30%, while the tourism industry as a whole is experiencing 4% growth per year (WTO, 2006). On Vancouver Island, ecotourism accountants for $200 million per year in revenue (WTO, 2006)

*snip*

Cultural Tourism: First Nations tourism related activities are a popular experience that tourists seek in Tofino. In 1999 Canada generated $250 million from Aboriginal tourism. Many of the tourists that visit Tofino are interested in visiting Aboriginal related sites, such as reserves, aboriginal museums, artworks and culturally significant locations. A study by the B.C visitors association found that 61% of Europeans, 42% of Americans, 26% of Asians and 25% of regional Canadians have visited a Aboriginal related site in their trip to Tofino (WTO, 2006).

www.geography.ryerson.ca...

A half a billion dollars? THAT'S who the big companies are trying to target.

Next:

In Tofino there are 30 businesses owned and operated by First Nations people. These businesses range in size from a big resort and conference centre owned by the Tla-oqui-aht tribe to small independent owners of fishing, canoe and hiking tour guides. In the recent years, there has been cooaperative efforst the First Nation groups to market their businesses to tourists. This as resulted in an increase of sales and moral for the First Nations tribes (Region, 2007).

Note the bold. This has long been a problem for 1st Nations. Now we have a positive influence here and we want to dish it out to large, WHITE companies? Didn't we already learn what we have done in the past to cultures and ecosystems when we add "progress"?

reply to post by intrepid


Do you realize how LONG Canadian winters are? This isn't a Summer-Winter destination. They have a maximum 6 month window of tourism. And it is damn cold water for most of that 6.

There isn't the tourist dollars you think there. It isn't easy to get to. It is a LONG drive. There aren't many residents in the outlying area. To support something that goes away for more than half the year.

They can barely support having a SAAN there for Gods Sakes.



The First Nations in BC are very entrepreneurial. That "progress" you just dissed is exactly what they are doing. You think that withholding Starbucks coffee is somehow going to undermine such an entrepreneurial group, that kind of sucks that you think that little of them.

[edit on 2010/3/23 by Aeons]

[edit on 2010/3/23 by Aeons]

Originally posted by Aeons
Do you realize how LONG Canadian winters are?

Yes I do. Very long in Winnipeg. Quite long in Southern Ontario, Same for Nova Scotia. However the 6 years that I spent on Vancouver Island made me realize that anyone there has NO conception of what winter is. My mother had roses blooming in January.

This isn't a Summer-Winter destination. They have a maximum 6 month window of tourism. And it is damn cold water for most of that 6.

See above.

There isn't the tourist dollars you think there.

Ryerson is lying saying there's a half billion dollar industry there?

It isn't easy to get to. It is a LONG drive. There aren't many residents in the outlying area.

I know. I've been there.

I always shop local mom and pop when I can; I appreciate the personal service and contact with someone that takes pride in providing service instead of being treated like **** in the impersonal chains. Hopefully they will remember me and shop in my Art Gallery in the future. It's been working so far. However the small entrepreneurial shops have a hard time competing with big box stores even in my very upscale village on the Rio Grande.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by whaaa]

No Tim Hortons ?
Hard to swallow for us Canadians,but here's a short story:

I travel a lot. Technical,commissioning and start-up automation. I found myself in a little town in Southern Ontario called Bracebridge. I live on coffee .
I ask the locals,where can i get a Tim Hortons fix,and they tell me where the joint is, but they also mention that a local guy started a coffee shop and the brew is pretty good. I give it a try. Excellent coffee, very good quality and price is almost the same ( a few cents more,but worth it).

The moral of the story: I was very happy to buy my daily drug from that local shop for as long as I stayed there. I don't know if they paid their workers better, but it was a local enterprise. I'm all for it, for anything local when i travel, if the quality is decent.

An urelated rant: I keep looking all year long for Canadian garlic, and all I find is Chinese crap in our stores,which i refuse to buy. Once a year, I scare the farmers comming to our local farmers market with the amount of garlic i buy.Some think i plan on reselling the stuff

Interesting thread - this isn't an unfamiliar scenario this side of the Pond also sadly.

Had a thought though... and I'd be interested in hearing what you reckon...?

Say Starbucks, Walmart etc used some of their particular skills but on a local level? So you could have a 'Starbucks Cafe & Deli' - where they sell, in addition to (fairtrade) coffee, locally sourced bakery goods, meats, preserves and so on, all bought from suppliers within a radius of 20km. The Starbucks brand would still be strong but different, smaller scale and personal to remove the franchise feel and make each local variant familiar but unique, staff are all local and a fixed amount (local tax) would be levied to reinvest back into the community. Why would they bother? Reinvention, trust regeneration, potential widening of brand loyalty, hell they might even make a profit and learn a thing or two from local talented suppliers..

Same would go for Wal Mart - with small scale bricks and mortar Convenience store (not aircraft hanger) buildings - stocked with a mix of local goods, each towns would be different depending on local skills, ironware, clothing, furniture crafts etc. mixed with bulk buy hardware materials and sundries found in their larger stores, to help balance costs and to provide a level of additional familiarity and convenience to their customers. This again might help to build brand loyalty, break down barriers with those against 'the giant evil corporations' and help remove the guilt of those who have little option but to shop at Walmart etc - again local employees local taxes etc..

So... complete fantasy, old news that they have most likely considered for a second before wiping their backsides with or locally produced food for thought?

cheers

bb

Walmart going in small buildings with local stuff for sale ?...that'll be the day . Or Starbucks cutting down profit just for the sake of the community.I thought i'm dreamer,but i see i have companions.

I would go for it if they sell local stuff,or if i know that local people are happy working there. Might sound cheesy, but i truly give a rat's behind about buying as much stuff as i can from domestic sources. I fail to see how the big corporations can operate on the idea you sugest. They need a lot more profit than that.

Originally posted by Bursuc
An urelated rant: I keep looking all year long for Canadian garlic, and all I find is Chinese crap in our stores,which i refuse to buy. Once a year, I scare the farmers comming to our local farmers market with the amount of garlic i buy.Some think i plan on reselling the stuff

Excellent question.

For homegrown garlic, you need to get down to that swath of Mennonite country that stretches from Kitchener/Waterloo all the way NW to Lake Huron. They grow vegetables (including garlic), butcher fresh meats, bake, sew and just about everything else, including build homes. Bracebridge is a little far to go, but if your local farmers market isn't open enough, a monthly drive is worth it just for the preserves.

These people have the right idea and there's no bog box store that can touch them. People drive to St Jacobs from all over and there's dozens of tour buses daily during tourist season.

Enterprise just as it ought to be.

Walmart and Starbucks would completely ruin the vibe of Tofino. There's only 2 reasons tourists go there - the surfing and the environment. Without that little hippy village feel, all the tourist cash will go somewhere else. Tofino isn't the only beautiful village on the island/coast.

Not that Walmart would have moved in there, but it got Tofino press across Canada and all it cost them was one symbolic bylaw. Clever, I'd say.