Is motherhood a form of oppression?

The decision to have children is not a birthright, it should be a well thought out planned event. Instead we have more children brought into this world by "accident" and the environments that they are being born into are unstable 9 times out of 10, to say the least.

I am 30, married, and I dont have children yet. I consider motherhood to be the most blessed of decisions to make. My husband and I are still deciding on whether or not we want to raise a child in this kind of world. I carry alot of guilt with the idea of bringing a child into this world, these times, for my own desire of being a mother.

And if we do decide, we will only have one child, as that is all we can afford, even though we both have really good jobs- im not delusional thinking its a good idea to over populate the planet with 3 kids and then pull your pockets out of your pants when it comes to sending them to University. Giving a child, the best opportunites in the world is the best gift you can give your child. And that also includes using birth control after you are finished having one or two children.

Being a parent SHOULD be a fully planned and well thought out process. Unfortunately it isnt.

No, motherhood is not a form of oppression. I guess those with the mindset that it is will view the wearing of pads by women during their menstrual cycles as being another form of oppression.

[edit on 22/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Is motherhood a form of oppression?

No, but a childhood with a mother who thought such a thing would be.

reply to post by Amelie


You are actually quite right. It makes for a pretty miserable childhood if you are raised by someone who doesnt want to be a parent.

Thats actually one of the arguments pro-choice groups make. It isnt good for children to be raised by people who cant or dont want to take care of them.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I think the "oppression in motherhood" that some feminists complain about is treating a woman like like a brood-mare in history, and in some cultures until the present - often from the time they are 13 or even younger. There are sects doing this openly in Western countries, and the immigrants bring their customs.
Having a loving nuclear family is a luxury - many women in the world are "circumcised", and in war torn regions they are raped until they become incontinant and contract STDs. Let's think outside the US box for a while, because "motherhood" is not chosen or empowering for many women on this planet.

Originally posted by Dock9
Guess it was predictable that this thread would result in outraged knee-jerk

not to mention the verging on misogyny carp about feminism/feminists/women's lib'

Firstly, you're adults. Can the book dictate to you ? Can a book force anything upon you ? No. People are free to read it, toss it away, never read it, absorb some or all of it or none at all

Whenever there's this sort of outrage and knee-jerk, you know something's hit a nerve, hit some prejudices, some insecurities, etc.

It's only a book. Someone's opinion. It's no threat to your life or anything else

Next, motherhood is many things to many people

Some women hide behind it their entire lives

It makes them tin-pot gods in their own domain

They use it to justify all their faults and weaknesses

It saves them from having to go out to work or achieve at anything specific

It's an outlet for some women's lust for power and control

Some women use motherhood as an excuse for this, that and everything else

Others use it to invoke guilt on their kids and spouse. They use it as a lever and hammer



Motherhood ...

allows women to work their own hours -- to slack off, to choose what to do with their time, to do a good job or make a hash of it

no boss, no supervsors -- they're answerable to no-one

as a 'mother', she is 'always right'



Motherhood provides women an income for years, paid by spouse or State, regardless of the standard of the 'mothering'


So, does anyone imagine one book is going to persuade women from becoming mothers ? lol

Relax. The book's no threat

wow... i guess someone didn’t have the best childhood experience... sorry if that’s the case!

Your post is actually the one that comes across as a kneejerk reaction!! To that of people’s opinions!

It sounds very bitter and negative and doesn’t really address any of the issues raised by the author of the book... instead it sounds like an anti mother rant!!

The issue is if you feel that mothers (or father for that matter) should put their own wants and needs before that of their children... To most people, that is not an acceptable message!

Of course the woman is entitled to her opinion... and no one is suggesting that we ban the book... just a discussion is all. No need to paint ALL mothers with your brush of negativity regardless of your own experiences!

For everyone out there who is so high and mighty. I got pregnant at 17, gave birth at 18 and have a ten year old daughter who is healthy, intelligent, kind, respectful, honest, considerate, compassionate, friendly and well behaved. She is in the 98th percentile (which means she scores over 98% on standardized tests). An accident. The father left before she was born.
I know all parents say that their kids are awesome. Mine really is. There are other kids out there who come from mature parents who planned everything perfectly. Most of these kids are spoiled little rats ( I say that with a bit of prejudgement, there are some other awesome little kids out there) Any way. Point being, everything depends on the person. I never had a babysitter, never went on welfare, I am self-employed and home for my daughter when she gets out of school. I have never even entertained the idea that she is a burden. I brought her into this world dammit, and I will see her through it.
People these days are all me, me, me, me, me. I'm depressed, work is hard, mothering is hard, life is too much, oh my social life. Grow a pair people...come on!
The strong ones push on through life, they step over or step around to make it through. Parents should never put themselves first. Look at the world today, we might not have to hand wash the diapers anymore, but we still have a strong social obligation to raise responsible young minds. Now more than ever. All these stupid books and talk shows are just tools to pull apart the family unit. If you aren't raising your children, then the state will do it for you. We all know what they have in mind.

I'm guessing she's Illuminati and a shill for the concept of letting the state own and raise children. IE a pedophile promoter, brainwash promoter.

It saves them from having to go out to work or achieve at anything specific

This kind of attitude is the biggest threat to motherhood, the nuclear family, and society at a whole.

Let me preface by saying I am 36, in a long term relationship and childless.

I work in an office full of women,there is always someone off on maternity leave, but so far they have all come back. Their children are in daycare so they can "achieve". They run themselves ragged working long hours so they can "achieve" promotions, so when they finally get around to being with their kids they are too tired and proccupied with their " achievements" to give them what they need.

All this because we live in a society that says success in life is tied most intimately with wealth. I hear them say "I can't afford not to work", but what they really mean is they are not willing to downgrade their life style.

For me personally there is no question, should I decide to have a child, and I realize time is rapidly running out, I will quit my job and take on the most important job of all.

I do consider myself a feminist in that I believe a woman should have the same opportunities as any man. Choosing fulltime motherhood, by choosing to make the raising of my offspring into responsible citizens a priorority I will be achieving something which is increasingly rare in our selfish, greedy society. That is an achievement I will be proud to accomplish. To insinuate that this is a cop out and a way to get out of "achieving" anything signficant is an insult to true feminist of the highest order.

reply to post by Merigold


Sometimes i read a post and wish there was a "give a thousand stars" button...

Excellent post that i completely agree with

reply to post by halfoldman


Well, you are right, in many countries currently and historically everywhere prior to birth control, motherhood was not a choice for many. It was a fact of life. The women were property of their fathers, bartered into marriage and property once more but now of a husband, their primary role was to produce genetic offspring for the person who held rights to her reproductive tract, and her satisfaction, health and well being were not really factors at all.

In Islam, marriage is still legally essentially a purchase or long term rent of the womans reproductive organs, and marriage law makes no bones about it. The fact that there is a thinking feeling women attached to the uterus or vagina is not really the point as far as the contract goes.

Edward O Wilson has pointed out that everywhere in the world women have access to birth control AND the right to use them, the reproductive rate has dropped to 2.5 children per woman on average. This is a strong indication that in countries where they are NOT allowed access to birth control and the right to use them, motherhood is in essence forced upon them both by society who limits access and rights to birth control, and by nature of course, against their will.

Of course no one is denying that whether by free intellectual choice or cultural indoctrination, there are women who genuinely long for babies and the job of mother. Kudos to them. If that is what they want and long for, I wish them nothing but the best. But despite the outrage of some regarding the subject, the book is not simply "femnazism." A good argument can be made for the premise both culturally and biologically. I personally dont see why some get so upset over the mere fact of the books existence.

No one is forcing anyone to read it, although I would like to see how well the author makes her case, I have a strong interest in socio-biology, and it would be nice to see if she goes there. I have less interest in the purely cultural end of things, but thats just me.

I do find it ironic that many who are heated up over a book that would dare to insinuate that motherhood may be oppressive also tend to be the ones in this thread to exert social pressure upon women to accept that role or be stigmatized............which kind of makes the case for the author, albeit unwittingly.

reply to post by mutantgenius


Well, I am not sure what your intent was with your post, but you actually make the authors case.

You say you would never consider your child a burden, but the bulk of your post is a testament to how difficult it was and how the job was left to you, and you alone. Essentially, you outline the burden, but then you articulate that you would not call it such.

By the way, I think most of us would commend you on doing such a fine job with your child under such difficult circumstances. I dont think anyone is arguing that good mothers are not admirable and contribute greatly to society. I know I would never argue that.

I think the book is addressing the myth many women are sold that motherhood is a joy all the time, and a blessing, and that many women do not find it to be so once they are mothers. Oprah even did a show on the subject once, though I did not get to watch the whole thing. It did highlight mothers who had gone into motherhood with one impression, and who had a very rude awakening once in the job. Society plays down the burden of motherhood.

For those who champion the traditional family, I think a book like this may actually benefit that institution, rather than harm it. If men and women both understood the real cost to the mother of being a mother, perhaps the job would gain more respect from a wider audience. Perhaps also it would better prepare those hoping to enter the profession.

Originally posted by Muckster

Your post is actually the one that comes across as a kneejerk reaction!! To that of people’s opinions!

It sounds very bitter and negative and doesn’t really address any of the issues raised by the author of the book... instead it sounds like an anti mother rant!!

Odd that you would say that one post caught your eye as the one that sounded like a kneejerk reaction rather than this one;

Originally posted by shagreen heart
i hate this whole hyper-independent woman trend that's going on. men and women have vital roles that we still have to fulfil, i don't care if you believe in gender or not, we have two genders for a reason. this doesn't mean women need to be on lockdown and do what their told, but it also doesn't mean that they are above having children because it's not cool and SUCH a hassle, or that they are so full of this feminist propoganda BS that they have to ignore THEIR OWN kid to go out and party and be their awesome old self!! think about your ******* family.

Above having children? Lol. So its ok to have free will for a lot of things, just not that? There are plenty of people. It can hardly be construed as a vital role that needs to be filled. If the human population was on the brink of extinction due to lack of children, I would do my part for the species.

Dock is simply pointing out a truth that we really dont like to acknowledge. That motherhood is not sacred, and all mothers priestesses of the order and beyond reproach. There are a LOT of really poor mothers out there. Not just a handful. Quite a few. And, as Dock pointed out, if you knew the history of marriage and family, you would know that this is not because of feminism, there have been really lousy parents throughout history. Some people just make bad parents. Doing the mothering job well is an enormous job, and those mothers deserve all the respect we can give them. But lets face it, just pushing out a baby or two does NOT alone entitle you to that respect, and there are a lot of pretty shoddy mothers hiding behind the sacred cow of motherhood.

Edit to fix a quote

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Merigold

It saves them from having to go out to work or achieve at anything specific

This kind of attitude is the biggest threat to motherhood, the nuclear family, and society at a whole.

How????

Let me preface by saying I am 36, in a long term relationship and childless.

Don't kid yourself, you're waiting for the time to run out, because you don't WANT to put anything else before your achievements, plain and simple. I think it's comendable, it's what I tell my daughters to do.

I work in an office full of women,there is always someone off on maternity leave, but so far they have all come back. Their children are in daycare so they can "achieve". They run themselves ragged working long hours so they can "achieve" promotions, so when they finally get around to being with their kids they are too tired and proccupied with their " achievements" to give them what they need.

a lot of women do this to save their marriage, it's a stupid and irrational thing to do, but some women are actually in love with their partner and don't want to lose them. With working women this is commonly the case, and it's mostly due to ignorant insecure men. I'm not saying it is all the cases but it is a very high percentage.

All this because we live in a society that says success in life is tied most intimately with wealth. I hear them say "I can't afford not to work", but what they really mean is they are not willing to downgrade their life style.

Because it's true..if you put accomplishment behind procreation, you will feel like a failure... I know firsthand...I wanted so much more out of life than being someones' maid, caretaker, cook, teacher and basically nanny...I love the children I have and I raised them awesomely if you ask my mother, but had I it to do all over again, I would go after my dreams first and then if I felt like I wanted to, have children. mine were all unplanned, but that doesn't mean I shucked responsibility. I was all I could be as a mother and I have absolutely nothing to show for it. This "job" has no reward, it is thankless, it is expected, and worse of all, it's neverending.

For me personally there is no question, should I decide to have a child, and I realize time is rapidly running out, I will quit my job and take on the most important job of all.

because you have acheived financial and career satisfaction.

I do consider myself a feminist in that I believe a woman should have the same opportunities as any man. Choosing fulltime motherhood, by choosing to make the raising of my offspring into responsible citizens a priorority I will be achieving something which is increasingly rare in our selfish, greedy society. That is an achievement I will be proud to accomplish. To insinuate that this is a cop out and a way to get out of "achieving" anything signficant is an insult to true feminist of the highest order.

That's a point I have to agree on, I think that the performance of each of those tasks should be mutually exclusive...either career or kids.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



"Well, I am not sure what your intent was with your post, but you actually make the authors case.

You say you would never consider your child a burden, but the bulk of your post is a testament to how difficult it was and how the job was left to you, and you alone. Essentially, you outline the burden, but then you articulate that you would not call it such. "

It has been hard at times but never a burden. I may chose to call it whatever I like. Climbing a hill covered in snow is hard, but it's quite a thrill sledding down it.

The fact is we have become a society of panderers. Life is hard man.
In regards to the introduction of the post, it's a bit of a rebuttal to what may have been suggested from some of the other posters.
I get really sick of all this "single mothers are bad, young parents are bad etc..."as there are quite a few posts on here to that effect. Its just judgemental, I have seen some that I would say are good and some that are terrible.

In regards to the OP I think I made my point. I would hate to see women reading this stuff. If it is not intentionallly a way to make women believe that motherhood shouldn't come first before socialising and career motivations then it inadvertantly makes that point. An idea that should not be fostered by society. We CANNOT let the state raise our kids.
Instead of saying, if you didn't want to be a mother you shouldn't have had kids. (A bit late if you already got one isn't it?) We should say to these people. Stop being so selfish and do the job that nature has intended you to do. There is no greater joy nor greater achievement than seeing a child grow and become their own person. I don't know why anyone would ever try to convince people otherwise. Obviously the balance is lost. Sanity went down the toilet and values aren't worth a dime.

Originally posted by mutantgenius
We CANNOT let the state raise our kids.
Instead of saying, if you didn't want to be a mother you shouldn't have had kids. (A bit late if you already got one isn't it?) We should say to these people. Stop being so selfish and do the job that nature has intended you to do. There is no greater joy nor greater achievement than seeing a child grow and become their own person. I don't know why anyone would ever try to convince people otherwise. Obviously the balance is lost. Sanity went down the toilet and values aren't worth a dime.

Well, I hate to point this out, but your logic here kind of forces me to. Talking about family values and all. The values dictate that you not have children young and out of wedlock.

One of the most important aspects of doing the motherhood job well is in mate selection. On a natural or genetic level, you are deciding which physical and character traits you want your children to have, and that you want to promote in society. Of course many people dont think of it this way when they are all hot and bothered in the back seat of a car or wherever. But then if you want to call a spade a spade, and insert the values aspect, sex for without this kind of planning and thinking is selfish itself.

On a more practical level, mate selection determines what kind of resources you and your children will have. And often how much time you will have to actually do the job of mothering hands on. We pretend that isnt so, but even animals know that mate selection is a huge part of what motherhood is all about. Society isnt failing in that regard. Individuals are.

Of course you are right, that once the deed has been done, and you have a child, it is too late for all of that. Which is why I am perplexed that you would be opposed to women reading a book that might prepare them better to do the job properly from the very start. If they chose to do it, having a good idea of the true amount of work it entailed.

For you, I am glad that there is no greater joy than raising children. You are lucky you feel that way since you didnt choose it consciously and responsibly at the outset. But not everyone feels like that. Some people find great joy in other things, and it isnt all about money. Some people pursue science and philosophy and other fields that do not get you the best salaries. They do it because for them their work is the thing they want to see grow and flourish.

Many of the people who DO pursue money money money do so because they hope to BUY their children a good childhood with material things..........because they arent good enough parents to know that that is not the best childhood.

The decision whether or not to have children is personal. But the values argument is a double edged sword. It is utterly unfair to pick and choose which values you wish to ignore and then lambaste others for choosing to ignore other values. If you are both picking and choosing to suit yourself, you are doing the same thing. And its selfish for both of you.

What I still don't see as very wrong is the very thought of hiring nannies and caregivers, if they are well chosen, and you have the money for it. Most do an excellent job and truely love the role and the children they are caring for, although in some respects I do feel motherhood is a form of oppression, it does in fact, depend on circumstances and they are all very, very different for everyone.

I don't agree with spending absolutely no time with your children, there should always be time made for them. Always. But, also going after a career first will make you that much more financially stable and it will in fact make you feel more accomplished, and you may even have made enough to stay at home and live off your bankroll...I don't agree that going out for money money money is always greed, I call it financial planning and it is the foremost thing I wish that I had accomplished before having my children. There is also the healthcare and dental care aspect, as those careers will be one of the factors that contribute to your child's health, this must also be taken into account.

And if that means using a nanny or childcare, than so be it, it's ok. But as a way to shuck responsibility, it should not be...yes you and your partner should at least have SOME down time together, without the children, as well, or relationships tend to suffer. I don't know exactly what the book says as it's been paraphrased and probably with a bias as well.
I would have to read it first before I beleive she is encouraging "bad parenting".

[edit on 22-3-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Odd that you would say that one post caught your eye as the one that sounded like a kneejerk reaction rather than this one;

At first i was going to ignore the post... but then i see that dock was posting more and more so i thought i would respond to the initial post...

Dock has, so far, 7 posts on this thread which i do not agree with... so i thought i would bring my own perspective to balance it out... plus i stand by my belief that Docks initial post sounded like a rant against motherhood!!

If i replied to every comment or post that i didn’t agree with i would be on line my whole life... if it’s ok with you, i will reply to that which i find worthy of a reply... whether that be due to the fact that i completely agree or disagree with the post!!

Dock is simply pointing out a truth that we really dont like to acknowledge. That motherhood is not sacred

Well that’s your opinion... I believe that good motherhood, and fatherhood, is sacred.

Everyone is aware that there are plenty of poor mothers out there... which is exactly why this book is not, in my opinion, a good book for mothers to follow... And that’s the whole point of this thread!!

You and Dock seem to have strayed way off topic to launch some kind of hate campaign against mothers!!

At least thats how it seems

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by mutantgenius



Well, I hate to point this out, but your logic here kind of forces me to. Talking about family values and all. The values dictate that you not have children young and out of wedlock.

Which values? Christian values? "value" is a word used to implicate that something is of importance. What one person finds to be important is not the same as anothers and we could argue all day about who's was more valuable couldn't we? There are certain things that a major portion of society are willing to accept as valuable. I think happy, healthy children who will become good parents and active citizens is something valuable. Kids have been screwing around in the back of cars since man invented the wheel.....



Of course you are right, that once the deed has been done, and you have a child, it is too late for all of that. Which is why I am perplexed that you would be opposed to women reading a book that might prepare them better to do the job properly from the very start. If they chose to do it, having a good idea of the true amount of work it entailed.

I don't think this book really illustrates the hard work involved. I think its a sort of guidebook for how to slack off and make more time for yourself, how to stream line the process so you can be a parent, specifically a mother without having to actually do it.

For you, I am glad that there is no greater joy than raising children. You are lucky you feel that way since you didnt choose it consciously and responsibly at the outset. But not everyone feels like that. Some people find great joy in other things, and it isnt all about money. Some people pursue science and philosophy and other fields that do not get you the best salaries. They do it because for them their work is the thing they want to see grow and flourish.

I understand my place in nature and the implications if I chose not to perform my parental duties to the best of my abilities. How could I perform to the best of my ability if I resented doing it though? I have personal pursuits of course. My main objectives in life do not revolve around materialism therefore I have plenty of time to persue my individual studies and be an active parent. Plus I have alot less useless stuff.

Many of the people who DO pursue money money money do so because they hope to BUY their children a good childhood with material things..........because they arent good enough parents to know that that is not the best childhood.

I agree with you 100% and therein lies the problem with books and media like it. You cannot do half assed job and expect good results! Thats logic.

The decision whether or not to have children is personal. But the values argument is a double edged sword. It is utterly unfair to pick and choose which values you wish to ignore and then lambaste others for choosing to ignore other values. If you are both picking and choosing to suit yourself, you are doing the same thing. And its selfish for both of you.

I don't pick and choose values to suit myself. I pick and choose what I feel are to the betterment of mankind. Making someone an outcast or shaming them because of a mistake is not a value. Tending to the youth, who will be the next generation to inhabit this Earth is a value that I put a very high price on.

Yes, I see it, "Motherhood as a form of oppression", it's time for Mother's everywhere to rise up against your oppressor's, and stop this baby madness!!! ****Oh for the love of God, C'Mon Man, or should I say Woman, if this is all you have to think about, you need serious help, this is about the most ridiculous thing I have seen since I got on here.

Motherhood, is the most sacred gift a woman will ever know, and the most blessed thing God has ever given to women,"Oppressive" dear lord, give me a break, and delete this ridiculous thread.... Please