The Great Lie is John 3:16

helen.........

you would be a hoot to take to waffle house at 3 in the morning so you could tell everyone what losers they are.

what is it exactly that you get out of browbeating everyone with your biblical diatribe?

are you dating jesus or something?

seems like you have that "Onward Christian Soldiers" stance waiting for an attack from some other "soldier"....go to Iraq.

did god tell you he needs you to defend him..........you might want to look into those drugs that make both sides of the brain work at once....it's called...ummmm...vioxx....no...it's ummm....ritalin...no it's called......


reality.......

yeah...that's it....

peas

Originally posted by theonlyrusty


helen.........

you would be a hoot to take to waffle house at 3 in the morning so you could tell everyone what losers they are.

what is it exactly that you get out of browbeating everyone with your biblical diatribe?

are you dating jesus or something?

seems like you have that "Onward Christian Soldiers" stance waiting for an attack from some other "soldier"....go to Iraq.

did god tell you he needs you to defend him..........you might want to look into those drugs that make both sides of the brain work at once....it's called...ummmm...vioxx....no...it's ummm....ritalin...no it's called......


reality.......

yeah...that's it....

peas

Hi t.o.r/

War in Iraq and all wars are man made!
I guess war happens and has let it happen, because man has lost all faith in himself and all that is ABOVE!

and drugs just ain't cool!
By whatever name they are given!
take care,

ICXC NIKA
helen

If you reverse extrapolate the bible,the koran and any other religous doctrine you will find the truths contained within the stories,they will all be paralell but they will most certainly NOT ALL BE WHAT YOU EXPECT,I gaurantee it.It is easy to do and will change your perspective immediatly.

Gods Son is NOT a human Primate..

But is "The MAN Child".

While A'DAM and ALL his descendants are Primates.

But "The Son of Man" also known as "The Man Child" is NOT a Primate
but instead a Component of The Soul.

The Roman church and all its breakaway denominations
would have you believe that the Son of God is a Primate....

J.C. (Not the Carpenter) was known as "The Son of MAN"

And NOT "The Son of A'DAM"...


The Carpenter was NOT the Word, but instead "The Word Made Flesh"...

But then.... ALL comes via The WORD.

2 Parts to God, that make the 3rd component.

a. The WORD (Not your family bible).

b. The LIFE which is The LIGHT of MAN Not A'DAM.


The life of A'DAM was the Breath i.e. Air.

The LIFE of The Soul is The LIGHT.

The bible has Nothing at all to do with the human species...

It is a Parable for the SOUL, and Not the Flesh.

The BIGGEST lie ever told is heaven itself.

NO WHERE in the bible does it state or teach that people go to heaven or hell after death no where.

This even has the support of a leading new testament scholar and Former Bishop Of Durham.I recommend reading his book " surprised by hope re thinking heaven".

And before you cry "cult cult cult" I don't think the Bishop is in a cult..He has been spending the last 50 years studying bible theology.If anyone should know..I think it's him considering most Christians have never picked up there bible for more than the 10 seconds at church every other Sunday.

In the Bible death is described as a state of total unconsciousness devoid of awareness, knowledge or perception (see Psalm 6:5; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10). If we accept the Bible's description of death, we realize that those who returned to consciousness or were medically revived and later related their experiences were not really dead in the true sense.

Notice again Paul's description of this astounding event: "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep [die], but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). As explained in the previous chapter, those who have died are unconscious, as if they are sleeping a dreamless sleep, awaiting their time to be called out of the grave and resurrected to a new life. The period from the last moment of consciousness until they are awakened in the resurrection will seem as if no time had passed at all, just as if they were waking from sleep or from a coma.

"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep [died], lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the cloudsto meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17).
show that those in this resurrection will not stay in "heaven" (in this case the earth's atmosphere—"the air," as it states) with Christ, but will descend with Him as He takes control of and begins to reign over the nations (see Daniel 2:44; 7:13-18; Zechariah

What did Jesus' early disciples teach about death? The book of Acts records the apostle Peter's powerful sermon in which he mentioned ancient Israel's King David and his lack of consciousness while awaiting his resurrection. "Men and brethren," exhorted Peter, "let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day . . . For David did not ascend into
the heavens . . ." (Acts 2:29, 34). If people truly are alive in heaven with God the Father and Jesus Christ as so many believe, surely King David would be among them. But Peter said David is dead and buried and not in heaven.

Heaven is a lie used to control the masses..I can't believe that SOOOO many people are blindsided by this and have no idea that there own bible say's when they die..they are just dead! no heaven! heaven it supposed to come to earth.Supposed to....Not that I believe that is will.But according to the bible..yes.

reply to post by H0n3yb33


Paradise...Heaven comes down as a city with 12 gates.....after the millenial reign....1000 years from now or so.
but we have paradise. Time is only for us in this reality, huh!

reply to post by GBP/JPY


Even in paradise people are not aware of anything.

We are taught the resurrection by Christ and his disciples over and over in the Bible, but people will not except Christ at his own word. As for the theif on the cross, Christ said he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights after his crucifixion right? If thats so, and we know it is, how could the theif have been with Christ in Paradise that very day? Luke 23:43 Jesus said the theif would be with him in paradise. If we can prove where Jesus went when he died, the you can know if the thief really went to paradise that day. John gives us proof of where Jesus was. "Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre,wherein was never man yet laid. There"-in the tomb, the grave-'laid they Jesus"(John19:41-42) It was Jesus who was laid in the tomb, not just the body of Jesus. Jesus was dead! To make it plainer, read Acts 2:31 Peter speaks of the prophet David, saying "He[David] seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." This proves Jesus was not in Paradise, but in hell, or the grave. The greek word used by Peter is hades, meaning "the grave" Since Jesus was not in Paradise that day, the day of the crucifixion, then neither was the thief. Christ has preeeminence in all things Colossians 1:18 and the thief couldnt have preceded Christ to paradise. Whenever the thief enters paradise, Christ will be there too! He said so: "With me shalt thou be in paradise" Remember, the thief asked earlier, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom"(Luke 23:42) the fact is that Jesus has not yet come into his Kingdom (Luke 11:2, 19:11; Icorinth 11:26) Also, proper punctuation helps explain Luke 23:43. Most translations are improperly punctuated to make it appear that Jesus would be in paradise that day. However, as we saw above, the Bible proves Jesus was not in Paradise that day. A comma placed before the word "today" is incorrect. The comma should follow it; "Verily I say unto thee today, shat thou be with me in Paradise." By using the word "today," Jesus was stressing the time of his promise, not the time he would be in Paradise. Punctuation was not used in the inspired Greek that Luke wrote. It was added centuries later by men. The thief is still dead and buried. Jesus alone is the firstborn from the dead (Romans 8:29; Acts 26:23) But the time is coming when the thief will be resurrected and eventually enter the Paradise of God promised to come to this earth. We already know that in death there is no thoughts or awareness.Although your spirit your "personality"(not soul) because people are souls according to the bible.So yes paradise but your still not aware of this.You are still asleep at rest but with God..not aware of being with God.Paradise is God's kingdom on earth they are the same.The thief will wake up after death and be in "paradise" With God on earth.

en.wikipedia.org...

John 3:16 is in a copy of the gospel of John dating to around 200 AD.

Constantine didn't have anything to do with it.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by discolo
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

So........a talking snake.......told a naked woman.....to eat a magic apple!!
That makes me a sinner?

No, what makes you, and all the rest of us, sinners is the choices WE make every day of our lives -

.....such as murder, lying, stealing, coveting, slander, homosexuality, adultery, prostitution, etc.

We are ALL sinners - not just you, my friend - ALL of us.

The ONLY thing that we, as humans, can do in order to escape damnation is to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

And nope, you don't have to choose Jesus - that is entirely up to you.

Why do you believe this nonsensical dogma?

My neighbor had a baby two days ago. Is the baby a sinner already?

I met a young boy in a jungle village in a remote area of Thailand. A week after I left he was killed by an elephant. Is he facing eternal damnation because he never heard of Jesus? Do you really believe this? If so, why?

Do you really worship a God who would eternally damn a human soul that never heard of Jesus?

Honeybee, that view is not consistant with the fullness of scripture:

Luke 16
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[f] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers[g]—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

reply to post by bwinwright


i think the perception of christ changes everything.

if you think of it as "one person who lived 2000 yrs ago" then your position in this thread is completely valid.

however if you take the "christ" concept and pluralize it... as a "potential" within everyone...

then it changes the perception completely....

as in.. "christ" being a potential of behavior that anyone can elevate to.. and through a guiding force.. higher than us.. (i'm not claiming supernatural) .. that these behaviors are monitored and logged..
and when something "occurs"...

then one may be saved... because they "believed" in that "potential" .. and that "potential" of common good behavior.. is essentially "the only begotten son"... the actual "child of god" .. because it is "like god".. or "like what god wishes us to be"...

whether you think it's the Abrahamic "God" or not doesn't make any difference in this matter...

it's a potential for everyone not just the one character titled the Nazarene.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it.

Originally posted by Rise27
Honeybee, that view is not consistant with the fullness of scripture:

Luke 16
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[f] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers[g]—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

Great passage.

This proves according to the scripture that you don't need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven. Lazarus was taken to heaven and he never knew Jesus. Same with Abraham. This is a very profound anomoly that I've yet to hear and bible scholar explain rationally.

Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by Rise27
Honeybee, that view is not consistant with the fullness of scripture:

Luke 16
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[f] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers[g]—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

Great passage.

This proves according to the scripture that you don't need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven. Lazarus was taken to heaven and he never knew Jesus. Same with Abraham. This is a very profound anomoly that I've yet to hear and bible scholar explain rationally.

edit on 28-12-2012 by sconner755 because: (no reason given)

What you will find from the rest of scripture is that entry is based on faith in God's word.

Notice how in this passage, that the reason they were going to torment is because they did not believe. So he wanted someone to go back to convince them of what was true.

Abraham believed God, and had a true faith in what God said by acting on what God told him (obedience to God, submission to God's will), and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Jesus also tells us that Abraham saw Christ's coming in the future, and rejoiced. He looked forward to Christ, in faith.
Abraham was saved because he put his trust in what was true.

Jesus tells us dozens of times in the gospels that faith in Him is the way to salvation. Faith in what He is saying, faith in who He is.

old thread but cool topic. i attend no churches but do a lot of reading so i thought i would comment. seems to me when you read the old writings, the authentic ones, you begin to create a picture of what anyone would possibly mean by the words they spoke. for me when i hear these teachings, it seems almost scientific in it's approach.

yes i said scientific in a Jesus thread, kill me now or forever hold your peace.



i think we're all in God's class, GodScience 101 and when we die, we get to see if we can move onto GodScience 201, which of course will probably bring with it, an entirely new classroom.

a reply to: nomorecruelty

You people sound like God damned robotic slaves.

originally posted by: bwinwright
cThe Great Lie is John 3:16

Perhaps the most famous Bible Verse is John 3:16 in the New Testament where Jesus allegedly said, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” This is the exact wording from the King James Version of the Holy Bible, the most widely accepted version of the Holy Bible.

Unfortunately, for all mankind, this verse is not only a lie, but has served to force Christianity upon people in the most destructive fashion imaginable. This false teaching, initially attributed to Jesus by the Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 A.D., has been instrumental in the murdering of millions of innocent people over the past 1700 years.

In 325 A.D., there were numerous religions being practiced around the world. Constantine found it difficult to control people who worshipped gods perceived to be wiser and more powerful than any man, including the Roman Emperor. Constantine preferred to think of himself as a god, at least the most god-like man on Earth, and he fully expected everyone else to give him the respect a god like him deserved.

Therefore, Constantine decided to start his very own religion, center it around Jesus of Nazareth, make Jesus the only son of God, and make it possible for people to gain entry into Heaven ONLY if they become members of his new church and believe that Constantine, The First Pope, is the only divine human on Earth allowed to grant people access to both God and entry into Heaven.

This same lie about the Pope being the most divine of all men and the Catholic Church being the ONLY path to God and Heaven is still being sold by the Catholic Church today. They continue to threaten eternal damnation in Hell for anyone who rejects this horrendous lie.

Constantine used his power and influence to literally force people to become members of his new church, the ONLY way for people to gain access to God and Heaven. When people refused to cooperate, they were labeled heretics and either forced out of town or put to death.

Constantine’s new form of Christianity and his new church, The Church of Rome has become what we know today as the Roman Catholic Church. In order for Constantine to properly sell his new religion, help it grow, and strengthen his ability to control people at the same time, he needed a rule book, A Bible, to eliminate any confusion and make sure people were doing what he wanted them to do.

Therefore, in 325 A.D. Constantine commissioned the writing of the first bible and Constantine also served as the Editor of the first Christian Bible. Of course, he carefully constructed his Bible to be primarily a source of control for him, but this new bible and his new religion also had to be widely perceived as a source of wisdom and goodness.

Constantine carefully infused the lies he needed for control with the truth he needed to effectively sell this new religion. Many of the original teachings of Jesus and other spiritual teachers were not included in Constantine’s new Bible for obvious control reasons.

Since the discovery of both the Dead Sea Scrolls in Israel and the Nag Hammadi Library in northern Egypt in the 1940’s and 1950’s, we have learned of numerous writings from Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Thomas, Philip, and others which contain powerful teachings suppressed by Constantine.

Much of the suppressed information pertained to the teachings of Jesus and others regarding the divine nature of all things, the all pervading nature of God, the fact that everything consists of this God. They taught about the Holy Trinity actually referring to the Omnipresence of God, the Omnipotence of God, and the Omniscience of God.

Jesus, Mary, and others were all regarded as great teachers of truth. There was far more discussion about the divine feminine which Constantine’s Bible almost totally suppressed. The truth about the divinity of mankind was suppressed by Constantine.
The idea that each human being is literally a child of God, making all of us brothers and sisters so to speak was suppressed.

The idea of an eternal life in Hell was heavily emphasized by Constantine’s Bible and his new church all for obvious control reasons. Jesus and the more spiritually minded teachers freely and openly talked of the possibility of such things as reincarnation as a form of training. Those truths and character traits we fail to honor and demonstrate in one life will be honored and demonstrated in future incarnations.

No, ladies and gentlemen, the Great Lie is John 3:16. Jesus and his more spiritually minded friends who believed in the ONENESS of GOD and the divinity of ALL people, including ALL men and women, would have never have told the lie credited to him in John 3:16.

Of course, the Catholic Church has evolved into the most evil and destructive institution in world history. For well documented proof of this, simply refer to Vatican Assassins
by Eric Jon Phelps. You can also refer to any number of works by the late Avro Manhattan.

A statement of belief that expresses God loving the world by planting a seed of love in the heart of His son, to seed the rest of the population with love in their hearts, and to believe in that and Him that planted the seed with keeping it watered, extending love eternally in this life and the next is truth for millions of people. This is an expression relating that genuine divinity is love to which it is available to all people, all the whosoevers, if they believe. Love is the oneness of God that is eternal.

originally posted by: bwinwright
Therefore, Constantine decided to start his very own religion, center it around Jesus of Nazareth, make Jesus the only son of God, and make it possible for people to gain entry into Heaven ONLY if they become members of his new church and believe that Constantine, The First Pope, is the only divine human on Earth allowed to grant people access to both God and entry into Heaven.

Actually, other religions used to have to consider the Roman emperor a god and Christianity lost many martyrs because they would not.

Also, if Constantine started Christianity just to impose state control, then he failed badly because the western Roman empire fell not too long after.