Apollo 20

Every now and then, some new "apollo 20" thread gets started.
For those unaware, it's a confirmed hoax.

It has been debunked in every part, but let me recap some facets ot it, in case you've missed them:
French artist Thierry Speth:
as shown this scheme is behind “retiredafb”, the original alias who publicized the videos: but a long series of epic fails characterized the Apollo 20 saga.

www.enricobaccarini.com...
www.cun-veneto.it...
It's an elaborate hoax, there are two different people involved in it as far as we know: one is the abovementioned french artist, the other one is the italian journalist to whom the alleged retiredafb/rutledge/speth released his interwiews: he's a former member of italian National Ufo Center CUN , and there's an article from one of their websites titled:
Apollo 20 footage is a hoax: we have the proof.
He got BANNED for yopur information.
The idea started from the formation cthat can be seen in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630
(this is a crop from it)


but also in AS15-M-1720 (found by ArMaP, this one)

and in
AS15-M-1581, AS15-M-1334 and in AS15-M-1335.
The reasons of the hoax are still unknown as far as i know, and honestly it doesn't matter, as far i am concerned.
All I'd like to know is how long to sing this song.
What futher proofs do we need in order to move all the apollo 20 to the trash bin?

Apollo 20 Secret Miltary Moon Mission
Debunking retiredafb - The apollo 20 hoax and the STS 107 tapes ...
Apollo 20, retiredafb, spaceship on moon seems to be hoax
Another Apollo 20 alien spaceship video
Apollo 20 update
Apollo 20 Mission Location Research
Apollo 20 confirmation of Lemurians?
Mona Lisa EBE Apollo 20
Alien Spaceship On The Moon flyover bef. landing Apollo 20
APOLLO 19 COMMANDER SPEAKS OUT: interview by Luca Scantamburlo
Abandonned Alein Spaceship on the moon (Video)
Another Fake Video?
Incredible Crashed UFO **Video**on Moon
Apollo XX Commander Pipes Up
Alien Moon City Video – Hoax or Real?

These are just the tip of the iceberg.
The Apollo 15 audio in the video known as ("The city") and claimed to be a video documenting some apollo 20 mission:

121:05:30 Allen: Presto chango; there's the TV.

['Presto Chango', sometimes spelled 'presto change-o' is a incantation usually associated with amateur magicians.]
121:05:36 Scott: Oh, beautiful, I'm glad to hear that.

Transcript:
www.hq.nasa.gov...

Listen to the Apollo 15 audio here
www.hq.nasa.gov...

See also Michael E. Salla, Ph.D update HERE:
exopolitics.org...

Not enough yet?

The images of the "city" were taken from Bruce Pennington's work: you can find it on pages 24 and 25 of his book: "ESCHATUS: Future Prophecies From Nostradamus' Ancient Writings".
www.amazon.co.uk...
www.brucepennington.co.uk...

Plus: floating torso issue that is strictly on topic since it refers to the OP:
revver.com...

But the smoking-gun evidence of hoax can be seen on the second video in this post.
As “bishop1971” commented on Youtube, at around 1:15 you can see a very bad compositing blunder in the video. “Leonov”, the astronaut in the footage, suddenly becomes a floating torso, as you can see the background moving below his waist.
Below, a frame of the crude error, note the background below Leonov’s waist, but check for yourself on the video:

That video was actually created mixing at least three different sources: one of the “Mona Lisa” alien, a clay sculpture, the background inside the Lunar Module, a nice computer generated video, and finally the footage of “Leonov”. But that final footage only had Leonov from the waist up, and Speth made a very bad error on compositing — “mixing” — everything together. There’s no doubt that’s a hoax, unless you believe on flying torsos.

forgetomori.com...

Italian National Ufo Center (CUN) published an article in one of its websites (the Veneto Region one) dedicated to ...yet another debunking:

www.cun-veneto.it...

titled "We got the proof that an Apollo 20 video is FAKE.
(Note: the ONLY person publicly endorsing the story was a member of CUN, now he's no longer for obvious reasons)
One of their readers, Mr. Claudio Sammartino, found out something of very interesting:









Full series here:
www.cun-veneto.it...
www.enricobaccarini.com...

The story was not just debunked, but litterally annihilated.

On ATS, especially ignorant_ape and ArMaP devastated it: i'm not used to quote other members but ignorant_ape in the following post estabilished the boundaries between REALITY ant FANTASY

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
OK - a direct challenge to everyone that believes that thier were " secret " allopo missions post A17

please posit - with what ? , where , when and how ? .

rocket launches require a VAST infrastructure

also consider the origins of your ` extra rocket ` - you cannot just magic up a launch ready Saturn V by clicking your fingers

each of the 3 rocket stages were built @ separate plants , by different contractors

the LEM was built by Grumman , the CM by yet another contractor [ north american - again - but at a different site - with an independant team ]

so where did the ` extra ` units come from ?

next

how were the extra units transported ?

2 stages needed special barges

1 a unique airplane

next

how ere the stages assembled into a complete rocket

the KSC used the VAB - vehicle assembly building - a unique structure with the tallest open space of any building

next

how was the assembled rocket positioned on the launch pad

KSC used the crawler - another unique piece of equipment

I ask to put all the apollo 20 crap where it deserves to go: trash bin.
Thank you for your attention.
Internos

I am giving this great post a bump, in the hope that more people sees it. I agree completely with Internos that the Apollo 20 story and every new thread which promotes it should be thrown directly in the HOAX bin, just like the Stephen Greer and Blossom Goodchild fairy tales.
As Internos said, it HAS been established that this is an elaborate hoax by the French artist Thierry Speth, and it would be nice to see ATS take a clear stand in this matter and label it a HOAX once and for all.

I also think it would be an appropriate thank you and kudos to ArMaP, ignorant_ape and Internos, who have done us all a great favour by digging out the truth about the fictional Apollo 20 mission. They certainly have my gratitude and respect for it!

HI OP and all,

You know, I often wonder how we can can spend so much time trying to and I believe succeeding in providing visual truth toward air, water and earth visitation to the moon and to mars, perhaps other planets too.

But, I also think if those of you spending so much time and producing real results about that, could spend some of your resources on the EBEs occupying dimensions and physical bodies in our own timeline. Above, On and Below this ball we live on?

Decoy

reply to post by internos


Good thread internos, I knew that Apollo 20 was bunk but the relevant information was scattered everywhere through out the interwebs.

You have pieced the puzzle together nicely.

Thank you!

For a while I bought much of the Apollo 20 topics and loved the possibly of such a reality but I have to agree with the OP that it was indeed a hoax and I have to realise that I bought into it at first because my objectivity let out a squeal before taking a nose dive out of the window.

I got caught up in the awesome implications of such a story had it turned out to have been truth but it was never really going to be as easy as finding a billion year old extraterrestrial star ship on the moon was it?

Star and flag even though I take no pleasure in recognising the Apollo 20 mission as being nothing more than a hoax because I sure did love it when it was fresh.

This is wonderful! I came across a post about Apollo 20 a few weeks ago and I was fascinated, mostly by "Mona Lisa EBE", but I couldn't find any more information on her. I figured it was a hoax, but I couldn't find the proof.

It's a pretty interesting clay model; do you know their source for her design or anything?

Excellent work, my friend; as always, well thought out and very much in depth and to the point; perhaps some will take time to stop and think, and really appreciate the amount of effort and depth of research that you always provide.



seeker

reply to post by internos

Excellent thread Internos.

Yes most of us can put Apollo 20 in the trash bin as you suggest.

However those of us who believe that everything NASA says is a lie will find some way around every objection raised in their mind.

I think Brian Dunning sums up this phenomenon well in a blog he wrote on another conspiracy topic but it still applies to many conspiracies that involve any government agencies like NASA:

skeptoid.com...

The trouble with discussing government conspiracies is that the believers generally refuse to accept the factual evidence, because it becomes part of the conspiracy...If the government is trying to cover something up, every falsified claim becomes evidence for the conspiracy. In summary, there is no amount of evidence that can be compiled that will be accepted by a conspiracy theorist. In the conspiracy theorist's mind, evidence against is actually evidence for.

Yes, that's the topsy turvy twisted world in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, when evidence against becomes evidence "for" because it's all just a big government lie and coverup.

Thanks for shedding some more light on this!

I agree that Apollo 20 is an obvious hoax.
The object that can be seen in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630 is interesting and I have been trying to find a newer image of it from either the Japanese KAGUYA mission or the Indian Chandrayaan-1 mission. No luck though. I emailed them the coordinates asking to see images. Does anyone know of a newer image of the object?

Originally posted by internos
On ATS, especially ignorant_ape and ArMaP devastated it: i'm not used to quote other members but ignorant_ape in the following post estabilished the boundaries between REALITY ant FANTASY

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
also consider the origins of your ` extra rocket ` - you cannot just magic up a launch ready Saturn V by clicking your fingers

each of the 3 rocket stages were built @ separate plants , by different contractors

I'm sure most of you know this already, but for anyone who doesn't, there actually WAS a Saturn V rocket built for Apollo 20. However it was diverted to launch skylab:

Canceled Apollo missions

On January 4, 1970 NASA announced it was canceling Apollo 20 as its Saturn V rocket was now needed for the Skylab space station and budget restrictions had limited the Saturn V production to the original 15 flight models.

But Ignorant_Ape makes a good point, a Saturn V rocket is not the kind of thing you have "extras" of.

To the HOAX forum they go!

GREAT work Internos! (as usual)

Springer...

Originally posted by Erasurehead
I agree that Apollo 20 is an obvious hoax.
The object that can be seen in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630 is interesting and I have been trying to find a newer image of it from either the Japanese KAGUYA mission or the Indian Chandrayaan-1 mission. No luck though. I emailed them the coordinates asking to see images. Does anyone know of a newer image of the object?

here is video that proves the hoax. this is from kaguya.

www.youtube.com...

I'm not going to say that I think AP18-20 happened or not. One of the arguments is that VAB couldn't handle the launches. I beg to differ, I grew up in and around VAB. It is big enough to hide pretty much what ever they want. They have muti-lunch pads. Huge rockets scream out of there on what seems like a weekly basis. This doesn't prove or disprove it. I'm just saying that if it did happen than they could have done it from VAB and no one would be wiser.

my 2 cents

reply to post by internos

Every now and then, some new "apollo 20" thread gets started. For those unaware, it's a confirmed hoax.

Every now and then, someone dares to mention the forbidden story of Apollo 20 that surfaced some years back. There is then an almost immediate effort to say that it was proved a hoax, or debunked... or arrested for child porn, or in the hospital with terminal crablice.

*sigh*

Anyway, whether I am the one who inspired the OP here by mentioning A-20 in another post or not, I have no idea. But since I spent a year and a half poking around on this story for a blog I was writing at the time, I thought I'd share a few counter points to the hoax/debunk claim.

First, lets do the imagery of the supposed craft on the lunar surface. If memory serves, these two pictures were taken on the Apollo 15 mission. I recommend the large, panoramic versions, rather than the washed out blows offered in the OP. Links follow:

www.lpi.usra.edu...
www.lpi.usra.edu...

You'll find the object in question slightly to the right of the big crater. From there, if you have the means, do your own blow-ups and that way, you can be sure of what you're getting.

Next, one very good source for the story of the supposed Apollo 20 mission can be found at the link below. There is a very nice collection of the various videos and still shots, as well as an interview with the person who claims the name Rutledge, who was also supposedly along on the mission.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

In closing, I would like to offer that I do believe that the OP has every right to express what they believe to be true. If they believe this is a hoaxed story, then by all means say so. But let's be sure to understand that the very nature of this kind of subject matter, makes declarations of absolute 'this' or 'that' all the same. Just because someone says something is real or a hoax, doesn't make it so.

It is up to the reader to decide.

It is also for this reason that I find the ATS policy of labeling stories as a HOAX with nothing more than opinion, to be contrary to the stated purpose of this website.

Thanks

All the Saturns ever built are accounted for - Apollo 20's went up to orbit with Skylab - cancelled Apollo missions

William Rutledge was Frenchman Thierry Speth, who has admitted to perpetrating the hoax - as reported all over the net - go look it up.....

Get over it.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
I grew up in and around VAB. It is big enough to hide pretty much what ever they want. They have muti-lunch pads. Huge rockets scream out of there on what seems like a weekly basis. This doesn't prove or disprove it. I'm just saying that if it did happen than they could have done it from VAB and no one would be wiser.

so they could have a Saturn V "scream out of there" and no-one would notice??

I dont' think so - Vandenberg launch seen from as far away as LA - and the one in this story wasn't as big as a Saturn!!

I can't believe that people would think that a rocket launch of such immensity as what is a SATURN V could in any way be hidden from public view? THERE IS NOT A CHANCE OF THIS IN HELL! The whole idea of a secret moon launch is only surpased in stupidity by those who think it happened. Split Infinity

wow thanks for posting this after seeing the latest movie i didnt know if it was real or not but now i guess its confirmed

Just after this video went al over the internet I came across a video how they were actually filming the filming of the craft on the moon via a miniature recreated piece of moon and the miniature craft all on a big table.

Paid absolutely no attention to it until everybody came to think it is real.

To bad I'm not able to find this "making of video" anymore.

Interesting even the forensic analysis focuses more on the astronot's face and the module controls, than the 'alien mona lisa' too.

A somewhat elaborate hoax? What about the face of the astronot matching up?!