the Bible without Jesus

I have always been curious why the Bible, whose purpose is the redemption and salvation of humanity through Jesus the Christ, has such little reference and knowledge of Jesus in it?
We know nothing of the years from 12-30..they are simply not there, either left out, missing, someone didnt like what he did when he was 18, etc. Why is so much missing from his life? And if you read ONLY what jesus says ( attributed to his saying), it will fill a few pages, thats it. And if you Only read what Jesus says, it is far more buddist like(for lack of a better analogy) than anything else in the Bible.
Does this make sense to anyone else out there? was there a supression by the Church after his death, was there alternative teachings by People that came after him (saul of tarsus, who became Paul for example).

It just does not make sense, that the focal point of the Bible, should be afforded such fleeting and few glimpses. We have pages and pages of Palms, etc....why such little space to the Christ?

And one more question; Jesus wrote in the sand, and then scribbled out what he was "doodling". He was carefull not to write anything himself, otherwise people would worship the document, and not the philosophy in it. Jesus was carefull not to leave anything that could later be viewed as an "object" of worship. His teachings all pointed to the Father, not to Himself. He was the Path, not the destination.
Why then is every church adorned with that doggone Crucifiction scene, as if that is the way we are to remember...simply does not make sense.
These are things that bug me, because the supporting evidence ( the Bible) does not jibe with the way things are being done. I think somewhere, at sometime, what Jesus left to us to follow was corrupted / Hijacked by the people that came after. could be the greatest conspiracy of all time.

Jesus and Mary were the reason the Bible was written

true pure love, message to those that understand

everything else is impermanent. Only love lives on!

We know nothing of the years from 12-30..they are simply not there, either left out, missing, someone didnt like what he did when he was 18, etc.

Some people believe that Jesus visited various places before his ministry began, including Britain.

Does this make sense to anyone else out there? was there a supression by the Church after his death, was there alternative teachings by People that came after him (saul of tarsus, who became Paul for example).

There is a train of thought that believes that Saint Paul was the person who corrupted the original scriptures, creating his own version of Christianity rather than spreading the word of Christ. This is known as the Pauline Conspiracy.

Jesus was carefull not to leave anything that could later be viewed as an "object" of worship.

Unfortunately, some people believe that they have found just that - The True Cross.

And if you absolutely have to own a piece, you can get it from (of course) Ebay : True Cross Relic

Without Jesus there would be no Christianity, to point out the obvious. We'd still be Jews.

Jesus' message is simple, and even though he's the most important part of the Bible and of Christianity, he had a simple message that was easily understood in what was written about him.

"Love one another."

It was his message that Jesus wanted to get across to people. Like you said, he didn't want people to focus on him, only his word. A complete biography is not what the Bible is. It's a way for us to come to understand Jesus' message and ministry.

Originally posted by Faisca
Without Jesus there would be no Christianity, to point out the obvious. We'd still be Jews.

I wouldn't. I'd still be a pagan.
Just as I left Catholicism to take up the pagan path, so I would equally have left Judaism.

(sigh)

All together now:

The Old Testament is the Torah. This is the basis of Jewish Religion. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for the Jewish Messiah.

The Old Testament (Torah) was compiled a mere 70 years before Jesus' birth.

The New Testament was put together about 300 years after Jesus' death. It was compiled by a committee of Bishops and Popes. There were a number of things that the priests and bishops and popes wanted in there, but couldn't agree on. A number of them are still in the back of the Catholic Bible as the Apocrypha (absent from the Protestant Bible.)

Many did NOT want Song of Solomon or Revelation in there because they felt the first was just smutty poetry and the second was frankly false prophecy.

The book wasn't simply found inside a burning bush or whatever.

You should read the book "Deceptions and myths of the bible" by Lloyd M. Graham.
"
Especially you Pisky,
It tells about how the bible is not "the word of god" but a steal from pagan sources.(Of course most thinkers know this). It tells about how Eden, Adam and Eve are from Babylonian accounts.
It tells of four hundred Flood and Deluge stories before the bible. It talks aboput the Ark and Mount Ararat and their equivalents in the previous stories.
It tells about how even the names of Noahs sons are copies from earlier tales.
Moses is just the Syrian Mises.
Moses laws are just Hammurabis code. If I remember right, I think 6 of ten of Moses laws are directly from Hammurabi's code.

Its a good start for those who want to start civilizing themselves instead of saving their souls that were never lost.

Good Luck.

Originally posted by mystra
Jesus and Mary were the reason the Bible was written

true pure love, message to those that understand

everything else is impermanent. Only love lives on!

Question for you, and I am not attacking you. I was born and raised catholic. I have since drifted away from the church. I do though pay close attention to people and their beliefs. Where in the Bible does it say that you are supposed to worship Mary? This is a serious question. I would like to know why people worship her. (pray...ect.)

I'll go even one step further....where in the Bible does it say to worship Jesus? People say oh he's God incarnate, but even Jesus himself said not to worship him but the Father. Save me Jebus!!!!!

I believe Paul was a fake that strayed from the teachings of jesus. Modern day christianity should be called Paulinity. The church has failed to realized the contradictions in pauls own teachings and have put the student before the master.
Most of christianity's teachings are derived from something other than the words of jesus as given in the NT. They glorify the cross, their salvation plan is different, thier traditions are different, etc...
Are we even sure that he intended to create a new religion or just bring us to our senses. Like someone has already said all the things he did glorified Abba Father. Jesus never said for us to worship him.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by KSoze]

Mystra-

Why do you think that the reason the Bible was written is for Jesus AND Mary?

This has always been my biggest problem with the Catholic religion- the worship and idolization of Mary. Don't Catholics actually believe to actually come to Jesus you must first go through Mary?

Here is a quote from Mary Ann Collins, a former nun of the Catholic Church:

One popular prayer in Mary�s honor is the "Hail Holy Queen," which is known in Latin as the "Salve Regina". It is traditionally included as part of praying the rosary.

For Catholics who are reading this, please try to overcome your familiarity with this text and really look at the words. Doesn�t this sound like worship?

"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary."

No where in the Bible does it say anything about "praying" to Mary for salvation, yet the above prayer says for Mary to show us the way to Jesus. In fact, the whole Rosary is about Mary! When you say the prayers of the Rosary, you are praying to Mary!

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

Here is something else all together that is very interesting from Mary Ann:

"Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that "[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind." (Note 10) Pope Pius IX said: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her." (Note 11)

A lay movement called "Vox Populi" ("Voice of the People") gathers signed petitions to send to the Pope, seeking to have him officially declare that Mary is Co-Redemptrix. Over six million signatures have been sent to him, representing 138 countries and all seven continents. This doctrine is supported by over 40 cardinals and 600 bishops worldwide."

So over SIX MILLION people from the Catholic Church want to change the view and role of Mary within the Catholic Church, but the Pope will not because the Catholic Church has been doing this for so long that to change and recant their view of Mary would probably be an act of heresy. In fact, the last official Spanish execution for heresy occurred in 1826. A schoolmaster was hanged because he substituted the phrase "Praise be to God" in place of "Ave Maria" ("Hail Mary") during school prayers.

Please don't be angered by this. I urge you to go visit Mary's website and just read what she has to say.

www.catholicconcerns.com...

SevenAngels