Trying to conceptualize nothingness. Need Help!

Now after we die, we do not know what comes after death. For some we say nothing exists. It is very logical to think that nothingness exists, but that is not part of my question. My question is how we conceptualize nothingness. People say think of before you were born. It is a little harder than this to me as, I don’t think of nothingness, I think of a momentum of ecstatic energy. I can’t explain what I mean, and I wish I could, but I don’t think of nothingness, it is just so hard for me to conceptualize nothing. Now how can we really explain nothingness? A lot of us relate nothing to black, but of course to think of black we would have to be alive in some sort. What is nothingness; it just seems so foreign to me. If someone can actually give me a good concept of nothing, it would be greatly appreciated to get this weight off my head. Thank You. But for this thread, I am not just talking about nothingness after death, but Nothingness as a whole. People say a vacuum on space contains nothing, but essentially the vacuum on nothingness is something. Hopefully you can know where I am coming from.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by Maddogkull]

well maybe a good way to describe nothingness is the state you´re in when you´re sleeping. (when you´re not dreaming ofcourse:lol
you don't feel the physical world, don't hear the physical world and you don't experience the physcial world.
most of the times i'm asleep, i feel nothing, as i hardly ever dream or am unable to remember them.

this is the best i could think of, and i'm sure other members will help you better then i did.
but this is nothingness for me.

take care

reply to post by Maddogkull


I refer you to the Goddess for that answer.

philoctetes.free.fr...

Come now, I will tell thee - and do thou hearken to my
saying and carry it away - the only two ways of search that
can be thought of. The first, namely, that It is, and that it is
impossible for anything not to be, is the way of. conviction,

5 for truth is its companion.. The other, namely, that It is not,
and that something must needs not be, - that, I tell thee, is a
wholly untrustworthy path. For you cannot know what is
not - that is impossible - nor utter it;

It's impossibe in principal. Concepts have qualities, and that's all that they have. Nothingness doesn't have qualities. You can't conceptualize it.

Read this article. A quote from it:

[P]eople in every culture believe in an afterlife of some kind or, at the very least, are unsure about what happens to the mind at death. My psychological research has led me to believe that these irrational beliefs, rather than resulting from religion or serving to protect us from the terror of inexistence, are an inevitable by-product of self-consciousness. Because we have never experienced a lack of consciousness, we cannot imagine what it will feel like to be dead. In fact, it won’t feel like anything—and therein lies the problem.

Consciousness is made of, and inseparable from, its contents. It is not capable of containing nothingness, because then the consciousness itself wouldn't exist.



[edit on 3/16/10 by OnceReturned]

nice try....

but nothingness cant be....for even the concept of nothingness is something. this line of thinking is the best evidence in my eyes for there having been consciousness, or abstract ideas, before there was a universe made of matter.

reply to post by Maddogkull


Visualize your taste buds!!

www.youtube.com...

divide by zero. That should pretty much do it.

For nothing to exist....okay, that didn't work.

dont know of the nothing but i use vitamin B12 under the tongue .start to boost your vitamins especially vit d and bannanas potassium .then you will dream more.
worked for me

[edit on 3/16/2010 by dashar]

I had a hernia surgery some years ago. I remember talking to the anesthesiologist as he was putting me under. It seems as tho I blinked my eyes once and was already done with operation by the time i opened my eyes. 4 hours went by as "nothing".

As I posted elsewhere here yesterday, nothingness scares the crap out of me.
It would be a cruel universe indeed, to have consciousness bestowed upon us for a brief period of time only to have it whisked away and have us return to oblivion.

They say that energy and matter can not be destroyed. Perhaps the human consciousness is not destroyed upon death but changes form.
Regardless, we would not have a brain so it would probably not function in the same way.

Is nothingness the absence of consciousness?
Or is non-existence nothingness.
A rock still exists, but is not conscious. However it is still comprised of various energies and matter. Therefore it is not nothing.

reply to post by Maddogkull

Trying to conceptualize nothingness. Need Help!

May I suggest that instead of trying to conceptualize nothingness, you simply stop conceptualizing.

You do not empty a cup by putting emptiness into it. You empty a cup by pouring the contents out.

I suggest you try looking up Buddhism and nothingness.
I remember that they have teachings about nothingness.
Good luck and I hope you find nothingness

_























































_

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
nice try....

but nothingness cant be....for even the concept of nothingness is something. this line of thinking is the best evidence in my eyes for there having been consciousness, or abstract ideas, before there was a universe made of matter.

Nice try.

But the idea of 'somethingness' can only be valued by those alive enough to experience it.

The dead don't have that problem. Therefore the idea of nothingness is not the lack of something, but the lack of the ability to experience it.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Maddogkull

 

Trying to conceptualize nothingness. Need Help!

May I suggest that instead of trying to conceptualize nothingness, you simply stop conceptualizing.

You do not empty a cup by putting emptiness into it. You empty a cup by pouring the contents out.

OR you don't buy a cup in the first place?

Psychedelics ? I've had 'nothingness' moments with mushrooms. I'm not sure what the score is with talking about that kind of stuff on ATS, but I'll happily share some experiences if people are interested.

Deep meditation can come close for me too, but I'm no buddhist monk.

There's a strange paradox involved in trying tho.... the thing you're using to try and either conceptualise or experience 'nothingness' can't be present for you to do it. Your ego just won't let you do it, as, by definition, you can't 'observe' nothing. There are heightened states of mind that do allow you to at least experience it, and there are many ways to achieve those states

As for....

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Therefore the idea of nothingness is not the lack of something, but the lack of the ability to experience it.

... and replies with a similar sentiment... I'd argue that you absolutely can experience nothingness, you just can't explain the experience afterwards.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by eightfold]

[edit on 16-3-2010 by eightfold]

reply to post by Mumbotron

I would like to request that moderators do not delete the post I am replying to for being a oneliner. It is not a one liner. It is a no-liner, and it is completely relevant to this thread.

First:

reply to post by Mumbotron

LoL Classic!!



Now to the OP and the subject at hand!!

reply to post by Maddogkull


Sir, I completely understand your dilemma. I have been struggling with this concept for ages.

I have a few notions on providing a valid concept of "nothing". However I should tell you upfront that I usually, in all cases, end up back at square one.

If you're interested, allow me to show you where I am at in trying to conceptualize this...

Please do this for me, look at the palm of your hands for a second, now look around the room you're in. Look around at all of the "stuff" in that room.

Okay now, visualize the house (apt/flat/loft/cardboard box whatever) where you live, the city, state (if applicable), country you live in, our Earth we live on, which is a speck in our solar system, which is a speck in our Milky Way Galaxy, which is a speck in our Universe.

Okay let us stop there and we'll assume that there are no other levels past our Universe.

Okay now look at the palms of your hands again.

At one point the palms of those hands (more so the person connected to them) were at one point "non-existent", alternatively "not" and therefore "nothing" not even a speck.

The same applies to everything after the palms of your hands.

So here is where I start to get perplexed. It is all clear and quite logical to me up until the point where I reach our Universe. At one point everything, was "nothing" or "non-existent". So this raises the question how did allllll of this "something" come from, at what one point, had to be "nothing"?

So this got me pondering, look at your hands again and ask yourself this...

How did these hands, that were once "nothing", become something?

It took two other sets of hands to make your hands exist, or become "something". More or less, it took an "action" from your parents, to create the "reaction" which was you.

Now again, apply the varied actions and reactions to everything on your list after the palms of your hands and the "nothing" they once were is for the most part conceptualized by the an "action" creates a "reaction" basic Newtonian stuff.

So on that notion our Universe would have needed an "action" to create the current "reaction" a.k.a. existence. Cue "Big Bang" vs. "Divine Creation" debate. I'm not going there!!

Personally, I always end up faced with the same mind bending question.

In my opinion (which are based on the aforementioned thoughts, ideas, and opinions) there had to be "nothing" in the beginning!

How does a Universe full of all this "something" come from "nothing"??

There is no such thing as nothingness.

For "nothing" to exist, "something" would have to exist along side it. You can't have 0 unless 1 exists.