Why Weren't We Trapped?

a big prolem and one possible reason why so many people get "trapped" is because laws, rules, beliefs, theory and facts are being forced into people and people are usually punished for not accepting things.

from the ages of 11 to 14 (before i dropped R.E as a subject) was often removed from my religous education classes for disagreeing with my teacher (the school called it disobedience)

because of the threat of punishment a lot of people wont speak out and its very sad.

that R.E teacher in question subsequently resigned after finding dog sh*t in her handbag and cupboards. the culprit wasnt found

Great question. As for me, I remember looking around at people who seemed to be satisfied with 'who and what they were,' and I envied them. Along the way, during our pre-marriage counseling, the preacher used a system that groups personality types to tell me I was a 'melancholy' and that we were the 'movers and shakers' of the world. Napoleon he said, was a famous example of a melancholy. Recently my research into the American revolution has led me to believe that John Adams would also fit into this group, as evidenced by his own admission that he, 'had always been dissatisfied,' and his lifelong effort to understand people and himself. We are searchers and philosophers (which means we think to much, as you may have been told)

It's painful I know, but I'm afraid without people like us, nothing much would ever get done, so enjoy it!

FattyZ

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by Full_Vision


..why have we slipped through the net- so to say- of the lies and controls while the mass majority have become caught up in it?

So why have we escaped while others have become trapped?

Since we are a minority, it would be much easier to pick us off in order to keep control over the obedient ones. They have our IP; our homes are GPS marked at the front doors. How difficult could it be to co-ordinate that information?

Why would TPTB go to so much trouble to ping locations if there weren't a plan? Don't you know what often happens to people who ask too many questions?

If they really wanted to i guess yeah.. they have their ways of rounding up the whole population so they might not be overly concerned un less showing signs of potentially being violent..homicidal.. you know..i do believe and agree with you that there is a plan.. and none of us have a clue what it is, i doubt its good though, but all we can do is collect the pieces when we can, take what personally suits ones beliefs and/or research, what feels correct to them, and leave out what does not ..
Yes, life certainly is more difficult for those who do ask questions.. but its got to be left up to individual choice wether to fight through and continue questioning, or cower and fall silent..

Nik1halo: Thank you for posting on this and yes it does sound like our childhoods couldnt be further from each others! everyone has certain parts of their lives and, most often their childhood days..our formative years, and there are huge leaps in differences from one person to another.. but still there are certain people (such as you mentioned your Father as well) and events in ones life that helps a great deal..

Originally posted by marsvolta
this whole thread reeks of narcissism. "oh we must be intelligent", "oh we must be a different breed", "others got caught up in lies"...how do you know others got caught up in lies? maybe it`s you people with fogged vision who cant see further beyond their own nose, who cant think beyond how epic they themselves are for being oh so different and so much more free in the thought department? from my own experience namely such people tend to be the ones with very inflexible thought processes. a school princess` thoughts are exactly in the mode of this thread.

Sorry you feel that way to be honest, but I for one am not at all saying i am better or more intelligent than anyone else.. i can be one of the most scatter brained dumbasses of all time! lol Its more about peoples different perspectives..





[edit on 17-3-2010 by Full_Vision]

reply to post by marsvolta


You call it narcissism, many would call it self knowledge and acceptance of ones own abilities.

If a person is intelligent and knows it, why should they deny it? That, my friend is called false modesty.

Some people are more intelligent than others, this is a fact. The liberal society that many of us live in today would have you believe otherwise and that all people (other than people with a mental disability or learning difficulties) have the capability to learn the same things at the same rate. This is not true. Many people do not have the cognitive abilities to get much higher than a high school education. This is usually not due to a lack of effort on their part, they simply are not intelligent enough. There are others however, who can get multiple doctorates in multiple fields of study. This is because their brains are physically capable of learning and processing the information required, not because of any other outside stimulus. It's nature over nurture.

Take me and my sister for a perfect example. We were brought up exactly the same, went to the same schools and had the same education. My sister dropped out of college, because she found the work too hard. I now have a MSc in Computer Science. I'm not saying I'm better than my sister, there are many things she can do that I cannot, but I am more intellectually capable.

Anyway, I don't think anyone on this thread has said that more intelligent equals better. It's just a personal trait that some people have, like the ability to draw, or sing. You've either got it or you ain't.

It's not that those of us who don't believe in these conspiracies are trapped. It is that we lack certain qualities that the majority of ATS'ers have....PARANOIA, FEELING OF HELPLESSNESS and other types of delusions/symptoms. It is not us trapped it is you people who are trapped in the paranoid minds of conspiracy theorists.

Read up on it.

www.psychologytoday.com...


it can also be a sort of religious belief.

www.psychologytoday.com...


some more info

www.psychologytoday.com...

[edit on 17-3-2010 by kerazeesicko]

[edit on 17-3-2010 by kerazeesicko]

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by marsvolta

 

You call it narcissism, many would call it self knowledge and acceptance of ones own abilities.

If a person is intelligent and knows it, why should they deny it? That, my friend is called false modesty.

Some people are more intelligent than others, this is a fact. The liberal society that many of us live in today would have you believe otherwise and that all people (other than people with a mental disability or learning difficulties) have the capability to learn the same things at the same rate. This is not true. Many people do not have the cognitive abilities to get much higher than a high school education. This is usually not due to a lack of effort on their part, they simply are not intelligent enough. There are others however, who can get multiple doctorates in multiple fields of study. This is because their brains are physically capable of learning and processing the information required, not because of any other outside stimulus. It's nature over nurture.

Take me and my sister for a perfect example. We were brought up exactly the same, went to the same schools and had the same education. My sister dropped out of college, because she found the work too hard. I now have a MSc in Computer Science. I'm not saying I'm better than my sister, there are many things she can do that I cannot, but I am more intellectually capable.

Anyway, I don't think anyone on this thread has said that more intelligent equals better. It's just a personal trait that some people have, like the ability to draw, or sing. You've either got it or you ain't.

yes me too, i too am often annoyed to see how people are brainwased by mainstream institutions like church for example.
but you guys seem to believe in your exceptionality(word?). instead of questioning your values, asking quesions as to if you could be wrong, challenging your worldview, seeking immaculate proof for your superior intelligence, it`s all about "omg what`s the reason we are so smart(in an annoying high school princess voice)? is it because of genetics or something?" in other words you guys accept your exceptionality by deafault and without any challenge. narrow minded and childish if you ask me.

I have always mistrusted everything. My childhood was spent in Puerto Rico and I grew up on a rough part of the island.

That being said, the things I have seen growing up turned me into the kind of person that naturally mistrusted ANYTHING that any so called "authority figured" ever spewed out of their mouth.

As I arrived on my teen age years, I was a full blown skeptic. I knew that there was always a reason behind everything that was introduced to me via public school specially in history class.

I moved between PR and US many times back and forth and the history books were completely different which is when I started asking questions.

During High School in CT, I stopped raising for the pledge, not as a form of disrespect but because I started seeing the brainwashing being performed on my class mates.

I got in a lot of trouble with my principals and teachers which is when I started to learn how to do proper research so I could smack them in their own faces with their own 'laws'.

My vice principal hated me with a passion.

By the time I graduated from HS, I didn't believe my own mother and mistrusted everything I heard from the MSN so pretty much I have lived with my eyes semi-opened for a looong time.

In contrast, my 2 brothers are f#$*(@ing SHEEPLES!!!

[sorry about my english]

we could be soul rebels, truth seekers, fearless, curious spirits and evolution artists.

something deep inside seeks for something more.

we can't accept the rules and live thinking it's all right. you got to question it, and dig it to feed your soul!

intelligence is avaiable to everyone, some seek feed it, and some not...
and it depends on your soul hunger!

some souls are hunger for music, others art, others information, others mathematics, etc... moslty more than one thing

our souls could be common by the hunger of the truth, the unacceptance of rules, fearless of the unknown, etc...

or maybe we have popped inside our hearts a tiny little drop of the memory once we all on earth have forgotten, that is we are eternal and unlimited.

some people say and accept it "ok, we are eternal and all"

others feel it inside! do you feel it?
sometimes when i feel it too much, i cry

reply to post by Full_Vision


I agree whole heartedly!

I was the same as a child. You know that phase children go through where they are constantly asking "why"? I never did like the answers I received, even as a kid. I watched cartoons, but I was always far more intrigued by shows like Unsolved Mysteries, the Twilight Zone, basically anything that required thinking outside the box. In school when we would learn about topics like Government, Economics, Banking, etc... certain things would stick out and I would smell BS (although not in those words!)

Upon further inquiry, I found that most of my teachers only learned and taught what was in the text books. When asked a controversial question, they would shut down and come back at me with a smart-ass comment, or insinuate I was trying to derail their teachings (which I wasnt by the way... just hungry for knowledge)

To get to the point, I do believe there is something to your theory. Some people are born inquisitive to no end, while some are content to know only what they're told and to accept everything at face value. I'm certain that higher intelligence is required for critical, imaginative thinking to a degree.

After all, while we do see the occasional silliness, I feel like this community (ATS) for the most part is a very articulate and perceptive one.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

[edit on 17-3-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

It all comes down to evolution.

Humans did not evolve just as individuals, we are too weak and defenceless for that. We evolved as social groups.

The most viable social group was one that consisted mainly of followers, who could fall in with the social group-think, spiced up with a sprinkling of free-thinkers who could question, and thus mould, the prevailing group-think to keep the group safe and make progress.

The prophets of the bible were just people like us whose eyes were more open than the others in society.



However, never assume you are free of the group-think trap.
Have you heard of gate-keeper sites?
Many internet sites were put up post 9/11 to "guide" the freethinkers and keep them away from the particular aspects of 9/11 TPTB did not want us looking into. Even while we suppose ourselves to be free-thinkers, once in a group of apparent free-thinkers we can be influenced by peer-group pressure more than we realise.

To stay a free-thinker you must be sceptical of everyone, even yourself.
You must analyse the things you know carefully, and see what evidence you have for each bit of "knowledge."
You must learn to live with uncertainty, knowing much you'd like to be true may not be.
Never accept people saying "it's already been proved," and be particularly suspicious of any argument accompanied by ridicule.

And, to stay sane, you need a source of strength and comfort. This may be a special friend, a hobby, spiritual faith, gardening, communing with nature, or just a solid faith in yourself.

reply to post by WhiteDevil013


Thank you for your imput.. very much appreciated
My oldest sister is an english teacher for highschool students..and i remember when it came to me that all she thought and taught the students she dealt with on a daily basis, was merely from a book and not her own mind.. educators do lie to their students, or withhold information if it isnt a 'comfortable' topic.. but i can not blame the teachers so much as it isnt malicious intent on their part to pass down many of the mistruths they themselves were taught by the books, only to pass onto the young and keep the cycle repeating..i did have some wonderful teachers in my school years, some who greatly inspired me, but at the end of the day they too were extremely restricted as to what they were able to say or teach that was actually from their own free minds...the school boards certainly couldnt have that! .. sorry ranting lol
It seems to be a fairly unpopular theory on this thread that the question at hand does have one possible train of thought to do with a persons intelligence.. but i do have to agree.. though what i disagree with is those coming here and saying because i believe that, i somehow think i am better than those who havent ever questioned their world and reality.. arrogant i am not, and i would never feel superior to anyone..it just isnt how i work..

Sundier: Your post was beautiful, thank you for your thoughts..
eternal beings made of energy to influence to any extent, things here on Earth.. be it in small ways or major ones, some is better than none at all. I like the thought that we are all 'light beings' of a sort, working together at this space in time we all exist in presently..

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
It's not that those of us who don't believe in these conspiracies are trapped. It is that we lack certain qualities that the majority of ATS'ers have....PARANOIA, FEELING OF HELPLESSNESS and other types of delusions/symptoms. It is not us trapped it is you people who are trapped in the paranoid minds of conspiracy theorists.

Sorry, i really can not say i believe this.. and its pointlessly hostile tone is not at all needed really.. Most people be they skeptics or theorists who have common sense and a properly functioning brain in ones head do not believe everything they hear, read or see..those who have been doing our studies and research to any extent can often spot BS a mile away.. and are not at all as easy to become duped..of course theres always the few that make the rest of self educated intelligence look bad though.. Personally, no i am not a paranoid person, nor is there any feeling of helplessness or possible signs of delusions.. Its just simply best to take all possible angles into consideration, no matter how unlikely one may think it to be at the time.. on various topics instead of closed minded blindness of seeing only one or two possible 'answers' to something..

Originally posted by marsvolta
this whole thread reeks of narcissism. "oh we must be intelligent", "oh we must be a different breed", "others got caught up in lies"...how do you know others got caught up in lies? maybe it`s you people with fogged vision who cant see further beyond their own nose, who cant think beyond how epic they themselves are for being oh so different and so much more free in the thought department? from my own experience namely such people tend to be the ones with very inflexible thought processes. a school princess` thoughts are exactly in the mode of this thread.

I endorse this post

On the other hand, people who visit ATS tend to be contrarians - and I think that is a virtue in a world that seems to value conformity - without an opposition voice, things tend to be pretty dull.

Whether people here have actually managed to escape - thats another question.

If they have escaped common reality, then by common definition they are living in a fantasy land.

What indications are there to support an assertion that they have a better basis for reality than the commonly accepted view?

For me this is resolved by applying reality models and seeing where you get the best fit.

Is everything as it appears, and the news is correct and unbiased and governments are acting in everyones best interest? Wars just happen, and are justifiable based on the events that lead up to them? The monetary system is a fair system that benefits society as a whole?

Well, the above questions highlight some glaring problems with the commonly accepted reality - and a cut to the bone question of 'who benefits' unearths a host of alternative realities.

Why do people on ATS generally not subscribe to the commonly accepted reality?

Perhaps your post has value in pointing out the narcissistic tendancies of these posters - perhaps you are right?

Perhaps it is a sense of superiority and pride that causes people to turn away from what the 'common' people believe? A desire to be different from those they see as inferior?

Its an interesting idea - and I see a certain amount of truth in it, but I don't think its the entire answer in all cases.

Some people will have their own beliefs, and seek self importance, and an area in which they can be the chief expert and so on - granted.

However - there is a model of reality that simply has a better fit than the one presented by the media, education, government, churches and so on - this model is attacked, its proponents abused and discredited and public opinion through mass media is directed against it.

If pride were the issue - then I think many would rather avoid the embarrassment.

I think the alternative model fits so well that it is compelling.

I think many ATS members have seen a better way to understand reality - that explains it better - and that it is so compelling that they simply won't let it go.

Maybe it was chance that lead them on the path to a new understanding, maybe it was intelligence, or imagination that begin to unravel the illusion of reality that has been collectively pulled over our eyes, maybe it is over confidence (narcissism) that continues to make them paddle upstream?

The common theme that I see, more so than narcissism - is they see themselves as being different, not fitting into the common mold - and curiosity seems to be another important theme.

There are probably a range of answers - narcissism might be part of the equation, but i don't think it is the whole answer.

EDIT: I should point out, I am narcissistic - and proud of it. ;P

[edit on 17-3-2010 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by marsvolta

 

If a person is intelligent and knows it, why should they deny it? That, my friend is called false modesty.

Some people are more intelligent than others, this is a fact. The liberal society that many of us live in today would have you believe otherwise and that all people (other than people with a mental disability or learning difficulties) have the capability to learn the same things at the same rate. This is not true. Many people do not have the cognitive abilities to get much higher than a high school education. This is usually not due to a lack of effort on their part, they simply are not intelligent enough.
.

It might be helpful to codify differing varieties of intelligence, as there are many. Emotional intelligence, somatic intelligence associated with visceral feeling and intuition, academic/intellectual intelligence, natural intelligence, or what might be termed the awareness born from presence...from being rooted firmly in the body, in present time. Some feel intellectual endeavor or academic erudition are the primary expressions of intelligence...in my own experience, i've met quite a few very brilliant people, greatly gifted in several arenas of cognitive function, yet woefully ignorant in others. Natural intelligence expresses itself in many forms. It appears that each has a unique combination...Also, there are some profound and radical new understandings in the field of brian mapping, neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology and other fields that suggest neural networks or
synaptic webs can certainly transform/grow/expand in totally novel, unexpected and uncommon fashions...seemingly having everything to do with conscious choice and personal belief. So i'd have to dissagree with the assertion some are simply not intelligent enough...most in fact are, they may only lack the experience that affords them growth.

I could give quite a long post on this subject, great post by the way, but will condense it to only the most pertinent.I've contemplated that question myself for a long time and realized that it does indeed come down to trust. Everyone here, no matter the views, no longer trusts the official narrative on at least one if not many things. Somewhere that trust was broken. It's easy enough to go with the flow until contravened by facts verified by our own senses. I can pinpoint the planting of my own doubts to an incident in high school with a school counselor. The, "I'm not sure I trust you," thoughts became completely confirmed by another authority figure breaking their word a few months later.

I believe, but can only back it up anecdotally, (although who can ever believe statistics) that somewhere along the way, usually in our teens, all of us lost our trust of those in authority. It's easy enough to dismiss the claim that your spouse was drunkenly flirting at a party that you weren't at, when you "know" that they don't drink. You might still give them the benefit of the doubt when you find some liquor bottles in the trash. Passing off your overly suspicious mind as the harbinger of bad tidings when it was probably some neighbor who left the offending bottles in the trash. However when you get called to pick them up from the drunk tank, you no longer believe that they don't drink. Maybe they were flirting too. Maybe not, but the idea that such a thing could happen is no longer outside the realm of the possible.

When you start to doubt the official narrative you've been given you start reading. You read the history that didn't make it into the books. Growing up the alternative histories making the rounds were the ones involving how America had actually treated the natives here. People slightly older, were treated to the truth about America's secret dealings via the Church Commission. Which of course came about because of one disgruntled FBI agent venting to a couple of reporters about a small time break in at a hotel. You then work back and see the shenanigans about the assassinations in the sixties. You work forward and see Oklahama City, Waco, Ruby Ridge et al. When something big happens, like 9/11, you don't need to believe that it was something else, you just no longer trust those who are telling you that, "This is the way it went down," ever speak the truth.

Those on other issues, aliens, the occult, the Illuminati, hidden technology, mind control, and way too many more to list (sorry to everyone I didn't get to), may or may not think that they've worked out the facts, but they are certain that the facts are not what they were told.

reply to post by Full_Vision

Hello from the Underground,

You are not alone posing these questions. Many people do have questions. Unfortunately, answers are too provokative, scary, or embarrassing to face. See my introduction.

What can be done hinges on what people are willing to do. Giving up one life for something unkown wil not happen by choice for many millions. Trying to change in the face of millions determined to prevent change is another obstacle.

Hang on. The nation is going on one ride this summer that will make something happen. I am just not certain when people are given the choice if they will look for freedom or control. You know what you would decide but have you ever put your ideals to the test? I have and it is not a pleasant adventure.

Hate about change can drive people to turn on their own family. The bubble is going to burst and only the informed will witness it while the rest of the masses wait in line for their rations. Watch, this summer: food, shelter, and children sent to war. Not to mention all the other city kind of things to drive people mad.

You may think me on the nutty side. I wish was so I could get shelter, food, and those wonderful mind altering drugs. Unfortunately, I am stuck in reality and my main concern is the food prices. It is not a shortage of food but the high costs that will make people do some really crazy things.

reply to post by Full_Vision
Why have some people spent decades trapped in the Matrix, buying the lies hook, line and sinker and suddenly awakened. It is something Cosmic. Some people are still asleep. It's decision time. Are you oriented toward the fact that we are all ONE. Or are you still under the illusion fostered by the Matrix that we are separate? The matrix is coming down. There is nothing they can do about it. They are in a panic. Love and light is creation, knowledge and unity with the Creator. Time to board the Love Train for it leaves the station. There will be many left behind. It's their choice. What's yours?

Namaste

I'll apologize in advance for saying this, but I find some of the of haughty replies located in here simply astonishing. Whether you agree or not, we are just sheep of another sort, the other side of the same coin etc. We're no different from the teenager who attempts to individualize him or herself by wearing 'unique' clothing while listening to 'unique' music. I, personally, sometimes think we must be all mad and that we shall wake to sanity in straight-jackets.



[edit on 3/17/10 by captain_planet]

reply to post by Full_Vision


1) Intelligence: the kind where we learned to figure things out based on what we observed, not what what we were told. Maybe we couldn't make sense of the world any other way, because of many discrepancies. So we observed and remained quiet (for a while).

2) Upbringing: we learned an exceptional vocabulary at an early age (through certain relatives or teachers), and were bewildered by things we read or understood, vs. what people in authority told us to believe. We may have been moved around to different parts of the world, and when we returned to our country, saw that what was said on TV was not what we had observed.

3) Education: being allowed access to a real education (only certain shool systems had this a long time ago), that taught things that are not taught very well, if at all anymore. e.g. Civics/Government, Logic, Critical Thinking, Philosophy, Debate, Literature, Science, Mathematics, English (no Joke intended).

4) Faith in a higher order/being, whatever that is that you believe. Vs. Institutions of man, who have failed you.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by Full_Vision


Hi there Full Vision,

I'd like to add another view to the mix.....

Astrologically, these opposing mindsets - the questioners and the compliers - are simply two different kinds of people. The objective person and the subjective one.

The objective mindset queries a lot of things, digs for information (why, why, why?) and looks at issues from a multitude of different angles.
We see the world around us as part of the "big picture".
We tend to resent the "comply or die" attitude the authorities have towards us.
We usually find ourselves not fitting into their predetermined boxes.
We tend to have the ability to put ourselves in other peoples places, to see the world through the eyes of others.

The subjective mindset, by its very nature, is not equipped to look at the world in this context.

In a natal chart, the more objective people tend to have the sun positioned in the top half, while the subjective lot have suns in the bottom half.

Sometimes this is not the case though, and other planets override the solar placement due to the strength of their position and/or aspects made.
The strength of ones objectivity determines ones level of vehemence.

The same, however, can also be said for those of a subjective nature.
So, there is no black or white issue here, but many many shades of grey.

As one of the 'questioners' I always like to remind the 'subjectives' that the picture is always bigger than the lens through which it is viewed. Although sometimes this just makes them blink at me in confusion.

Just my two cents. Cheers.

reply to post by Full_Vision


Well if i was to Self analyze..... my self being as biased as i am about my self haha. I would have to classify my self as a Leader that is content with no one to lead A self preservationist if you will. I've always been interested in the paranormal, UFOs & conspiracy's from the time i could read. And i guess that desire to question and think of whats unthinkable evolved as i grew older and become more sophisticated.
Not allowing Social influence to taint me as a child i grew up to become what I want to be and believe what i want to believe. It wasn't that i couldn't fit in with any Sub genre group as a child it was because i didn't want to. I think that's why i can see the greedy world for what it is, the black and white while some other people are dazzled by the pretty colors.

You don't know how often i thank whoever made this crazy universe that i was lucky enough to be born in one of the best country's on this dust mote with what i have and not born in a war torn hellhole or experiencing reality as a Ant.