Man Wearing "Freedom or Die" T-Shirt Stopped at Airport

I would have taken the names and identification of all the people involved in the decision to force me to wear the t-shirt inside out and I would threaten to sue them. Get all my stuff back go to the front desk of the airline demand my money back. I would call and post to every news outlet possible, and yes call the ACLU as well. I would sue just to make the point and donate all the profit to some reputable place that defends freedoms.

Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by Sestias

 

My guess would be if this same thing happened in the States, the guy would get a good lawyer (maybe from the ACLU)

This is funny to say the least. The ACLU defending someone wearing a
"Freedom or Die" T-shirt? It'll never hapen in a million years. The ACLU are against these type people.

It's my belief the airport security officers were only trying to avoid any potential misinterpretation of the meaning of the shirt. The security officers see all kinds of people every day and some of the people they encounter are of the ignorant type who would look at this shirt as being offensive or threatening.

To me, the meaning of the flag is "I would rather die if I can't be free." Of course there may be some people that would interpret this as "I'll kill you if you tell me what to do."

The guys' shirt is no different from this flag from the American Revolution.


I don't any idea of what I'm doing here. I haven't posted anything here in a while and I've forgotten how to post images. Oh well. Just let the guy wear his shirt for crying out loud!

[edit on 15/3/10 by Intelearthling]

reply to post by K J Gunderson

That's fine except for about 10 years ago, we were free to wear ANYTHING we wanted unless it called for the death of someone.

Things have changed. There is no freedom of speech. Now, having said that, the guy wearing the t shirt knows this and he was trying to create a stirr. Some people love causing commotions.

So do they think that a real terrorist would wear a controversial t-shirt to attract attention to himself? Focus, people!

Originally posted by pieman
he might feel like he's striking out against "the man" but all he's likely to do is freak out the few of passenger's on the flight who are nervous of flying generally.

exercising rights without taking responsibility just robs others of their liberty.

I'm tend to respect people that take a stance on freedom rather than being fearful of them. The problem with these incidents is that it conditions people to be fearful of using their free speech for fear of being targeted or even inconvenienced. This is why in many countries no one would even think to wear a shirt like this because its been bred out of them. I spent a lot of time in eastern Europe and I always found the people to be very docile and capitulating to authority.

reply to post by Intelearthling

This is funny to say the least. The ACLU defending someone wearing a
"Freedom or Die" T-shirt? It'll never hapen in a million years. The ACLU are against these type people.

Really? Are you sure about that? How do you know that, are you a member who decides what cases they try? They defended this case: ACLU files suit over 'devil' shirts and this one There are more if you want to look, they defend whoever they feel needs it, they don't judge the person, they judge the rights and if a person's rights have been infringed on they will often help. Here is a quote from one of the above articles"

"When the ACLU and ICLU say we defend everyone's rights, we mean it," said Stone.

Here is a wiki on the ACLU, you may want to educate yourself on what they do: en.wikipedia.org...

You may want to check out the section under "Controversial stances." I'm not quite so sure that they wouldn't defend this guy if this happened in America.

Sure, those cases aren't exactly the same, but the ACLU is all about constitutional rights, and can and has defended cases just based on that fact. I can go on with cases they defended, but I'm off topic enough. They defended Oliver North for crying out loud. Anyway, a bit off topic but just making a point.

Now, to bring this back to the topic at hand, if it is a private airport after all, then I guess they can refuse him service. In the end its all just a power tripping security guard anyway since the airport "authorities" were fine with the t-shirt and even went further as to apologize for the guard giving him a hard time.

Originally posted by ararisq
The problem with these incidents is that it conditions people to be fearful of using their free speech for fear of being targeted or even inconvenienced.

the only reason that you should need to use your right to free speech is if what you are saying is likely to cause you to be targeted or inconvenienced.

I spent a lot of time in eastern Europe and I always found the people to be very docile and capitulating to authority.

yet they bought down the communist dictatorships almost without bloodshed.

personally, if i wanted to know how to resist the tyranny of a modern state, i'ld be looking to the people of eastern europe to show me the way. the lessons your 18th century militias taught you won't last long in the face of UAV's and laser guided bombs.

reply to post by pieman

the only reason that you should need to use your right to free speech is if what you are saying is likely to cause you to be targeted or inconvenienced.

I find that statement so disgusting that I'm having a hard time coming up with words for a rebuttal. Free speech is a thing we should be using every single day, and you are using it every single day. Posting on this forum is an expression of free speech. That statement really makes my head hurt.

This topic isn't even worthy of a devil's advocate. What is wrong with you people, seriously?

"Live Free or Die" is actually New Hampshire's slogan, and it's printed on all New Hampshire license plates. "Freedom or Die" is a common slogan that many people of all nations commonly recite, past and present, just as a de facto.. "No Sh*t" statement.

Freedom or Die

Wow, so offensive.

I mean, it's pretty damn straight forward. Would you rather be a prisoner in bondage, or die? Hrm. I don't know, the dilemma is offensive to some among us.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SyphonX]

So I take it then my anti NWO t-shirt that shows the Illuminati god 'Baphomet' on the front and various words about the NWO on the back would spark some outrage at Gatwick?

Originally posted by Pimpish
I find that statement so disgusting that I'm having a hard time coming up with words for a rebuttal.

maybe you should just think about it before feeling a need to rebutt. nobody ever needed to call upon their right to free speech to say "good morning" or "i love you mum", the only time you need to call upon your right to free speech is to say something that others wouldn't like.

my point is that the responsibility that goes along with the right to say something offensive is the responsibility to limit the effect it has on innocent bystanders.

i know countless incident where all you need ed was to wear all black for you to get a written notice that your being watched at brittish airports.

fashion police uuberalles

Originally posted by pieman
the only reason that you should need to use your right to free speech is if what you are saying is likely to cause you to be targeted or inconvenienced.

I have to completely disagree. You don't understand or appreciate the generational conditioning effect. If you cannot where a T-shirt on a day to day basis then you'll never be allowed to wear on that day you are referring to.

yet they bought down the communist dictatorships almost without bloodshed.
personally, if i wanted to know how to resist the tyranny of a modern state, i'ld be looking to the people of eastern europe to show me the way. the lessons your 18th century militias taught you won't last long in the face of UAV's and laser guided bombs.

I have to disagree with you there too. The communist dictatorship didn't fall it was just replaced with a different form of dictatorship. You wouldn't believe the stories since the wall has come down. Those people don't live free, they are controlled and managed. Whatever you think happened, you need to wake up.

Originally posted by ararisq
I have to completely disagree. You don't understand or appreciate the generational conditioning effect. If you cannot where a T-shirt on a day to day basis then you'll never be allowed to wear on that day you are referring to.

i agree that you can wear the damn t-shirt but a) sometimes you shouldn't and b) you don't have a right to wear it on private property.

The communist dictatorship didn't fall it was just replaced with a different form of dictatorship. You wouldn't believe the stories since the wall has come down.

yeah.....everything might not be roses and candles but can they travel? do they have democratic elections? do they have a right to legal representation? maybe you should tell me what you are referring to and which countries you are referring to, i'ld be interested.

reply to post by pieman


Maybe YOU should think about that statement. Think about living where they do not have the freedom of speech that we are allowed to enjoy. Think about the internet being filtered and monitored like it does in some countries, that cannot even get to ATS. That is a crap statement, people should be exercising their right to free speech every day, just as you are doing by posting on this forum, which is an expression of free speech.

i cannot speak freely on this forum, it is privately owned, if i started breaking the T&C's i would be censored and reprimanded.

what's the difference between that and the airport telling the guy to put his shirt on inside out?




i'ld really appreciate it if you could address the question rather than spout off about living without freedom.

[edit on 15/3/10 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman


I had already conceded a long time ago that if this was on private property this guy did not have much recourse other than to comply or go somewhere else.

It was well after that you included the ridiculous statement that:

the only reason that you should need to use your right to free speech is if what you are saying is likely to cause you to be targeted or inconvenienced.

Which is just categorically untrue and a ridiculous statement. Tell that to the people who can only go to websites approved by their governement.

You have the freedom to come post on this forum and abide by the T&C's. Many people do not even have that much freedom. It was a ridiculous statement and still makes me sick.

reply to post by pieman

unless there is a good reason for the guy to wear it, i can see the logic behind telling him the message displayed is inappropriate. i don't think freedom of speech even applies to this case.

Are you serious?

It doesn't threaten anyone at all.

The word die doesn't mean "I'm going to kill you all with my explosive pants".

It's sad that anyone would take a t-shirt message seriously that is not at all specific. If it said "im a friggin terrorist about to blow U mfs to hell!" then fine arrest the twit.


[edit on 15-3-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by pieman
i cannot speak freely on this forum, it is privately owned, if i started breaking the T&C's i would be censored and reprimanded.

The irony is that if this were a public forum we'd have less rights and less freedom of speech.

reply to post by pieman

i cannot speak freely on this forum, it is privately owned, if i started breaking the T&C's i would be censored and reprimanded.

what's the difference between that and the airport telling the guy to put his shirt on inside out?

Where would you be banned on the Internet for having the username "freedom or die"? Certainly not here.