Arizona Town Bans Religious Meetings in Homes

reply to post by nixie_nox


By your statement, it is obvious that you dislike Christianity. I personally dislike most organized religion because of my belief that most of it is just a show of faith in order to obtain money and power. Regardless of how I feel about religion, this is an infringement on personal rights, plain and simple.

reply to post by seagull


The aclu is very anti-religion.I am sure many athiests are
high-fiving about now.

Kozmo, that is nonsense. People like me who do not wish to have idiots congesting the streets outside of a residence is not dangerous. Such an opinion certainly is NOT "dangerous to the very concept of freedom" as you reply. Religion, though, has already proven to be "dangerous to the very concept of freedom" though.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SunIsSon]

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SunIsSon]

Reply to post by SunIsSon

7 people is not equal to street congestion.

Sorry to bust your bubble


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

C'mon the American communist lovers union only helps out homosexuals, pedophiles, bizarre murders etc. In fact the more twisted the cause the quicker they are to jump. A totally useless organization out to make a buck, at the expense of the government, while telling us all how to live and think........now that my friend is dangerous.

Originally posted by SunIsSon
Nonsense. People like me who do not wish to have idiots congesting the streets outside of a residence is not dangerous. Such an opinion certainly is NOT "dangerous to the very concept of freedom" as you reply. Religion, though, has already proven to be "dangerous to the very concept of freedom" though.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SunIsSon]

I see that it is impossible for you to deny ignorance; rather you embrace it!

You should be happy that you don't have neighbors as ignorant as you! They would have the police at your house EVERY single time ANYONE parked in front of your house. They would complain to the neighborhood association and city council that your having guests obstructs the flow of traffic in your neighborhood and would move for a parking ban in front of your house. If you dared to have a party and they could hear it, they would vociferously complaign that you are disturbing the peace. In short they would impinge on YOUR freedom because it was inconvenient for them!

And, yeah... religion is VERY dangerous to freedom. I didn't realize that elementary school was dismised this early in the day.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Seven fools gathering to engage in cult silliness today, a hundred fools tomorrow. Your lack of insight is pardoned.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


True. At least now. They didn't used to be this way... But something changed somewhere along the way...and it's sad, really.

reply to post by kozmo


So you do not think the middle east, filled with its religious nonsense and lunatic followers are not a "danger" to the populations there? Religion and its blind followers are an ABSOLUTE dangerous to society. It needs to stay OUT of residential neighborhoods.

Originally posted by SunIsSon
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

Seven fools gathering to engage in cult silliness today, a hundred fools tomorrow. Your lack of insight is pardoned.

Your ignorance, however, is not pardoned! Oh... and by the way... when YOUR freedom is pissed upon - as it most certainly will be some day - you should NOT look to others for help or sympathy. You will most certainly deserve the prison that you have built for yourself via your ignorance. Good luck with that!

Originally posted by SunIsSon
reply to post by kozmo

 

So you do not think the middle east, filled with its religious nonsense and lunatic followers are not a "danger" to the populations there? Religion and its blind followers are an ABSOLUTE dangerous to society. It needs to stay OUT of residential neighborhoods.

[INSULT REMOVED BY STAFF]

This has NOTHING to do with religion. We can ALL see that you are against religion - FINE! However, the issue is a LEGAL one based on CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Your silly red herring, non sequiturs, ad hominems and such are of no use to this discussion.

If you are against the FREEDOM to PEACEABLY ASSMEBLE for any lawful reason for anyone else, then you are against that freedom for yourself. Do you comprehend the issue? What people do in the privacy of their homes is no business of yours! You cannot be against freedom to assemble for any reason - unless you are against freedom in general.



Insult removed, and warning applied.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by SunIsSon


Hi!

I think the OP summed it up succinctly;

'I personally dislike most organized religion because of my belief that most of it is just a show of faith in order to obtain money and power. Regardless of how I feel about religion, this is an infringement on personal rights, plain and simple.'

The point is, 7 people (not a projected 100) gathering in a private house were told to desist apparently without anyone lodging a complaint.

I find TPTB dictating what people can and can't do their own homes even more dangerous.

Peace!

ok, somebody who live's near this Arizona town quick get together a party, and post how many people are coming over and where the party's at, so we can all head over, than we'll find out, how badly they want to enforce this, as a matter of fact, I think everybody in Arizona ought to have a sizeable party this week to celebrate St. Patty's day, and screw these people..... rock on, assemble, and they can deal with it!!!

[edit on 15-3-2010 by freetree64]

*** Upon further information, this post was ill timed, and not appropriate to the discussion...sorry

[edit on 15-3-2010 by freetree64]

People who live in Gilbert set up these laws, not Obama, not Aliens, not the Fed. Love it or leave it. It is called democracy and the rule of law. I'm sure the good people of Gilbert would have no problem with a new church, as long as it is zoned.

reply to post by mamabeth


I am an atheist, and I am deeply troubled by this action. I could see the issue if greater than 30 people were showing up each week, but 7 is nothing more than a tea party! (the ones with crumpets, not political slogans) While zoning enforcement is important, this is not a commercial enterprise trying to operate in a private residence and annoying the neighbors (unless the pastor was making money off the deal, in which case they may have a legitimate quibble). These seem to be private citizens who wish to gather in a home to discuss a topic that happens to be religion. Such a precedent could be followed through to very frightening lengths all the way to banning political discussions and any number of things.

Yes, Christian's could rent out space from other churches, but perhaps these Christians don't want to be associated with the giant churches that are the very opposite of some their most basic teachings. And what of the many other spiritual paths that people have every right to explore, but just maybe would rather not spend hundreds of dollars each week to rent a public space to do it in? How much of this is about zoning and how much of it is about a struggling municipality trying to force it's citizens to rent it's spaces?

I believe very strongly in the separation of church/religion and state (which protects both institutions). With the info avail. to far, this is a clear case of the state infringing on it's peoples right to peacefully assemble on private grounds to worship as they wish.

If it's legal for 7 people to gather in your home, than it's legal for them to speak on whatever topic they wish, including religion.

The bottom line is this... You either believe in freedom for all, equally or you do not believe in freedom at all! Really, is there anything else to be said about it?

I now live near Gilbert, and may be able to investigate this... but am having trouble finding any actual names associated with this story, or stories similar enforcement of the apparent zoning restriction that singles out religion (probably among other things).

If some of you discover something useful, please U2U me.

Thanks.

reply to post by rogerstigers


I live in this town, and this is the first I have heard of it. Now, by crazy stuff, what do you mean? I used to live in Massachusetts and this state is far less crazy than that place!

I'm expecting a return call from someone in the Gilbert town hall.

I found the land development code document, and the "Religious Assembly" rules appear to be specific to anticipating high-traffic from cars and pedestrians, and seeking to ensure places for "Religious Assembly" are on main arterial streets. Having been through Gilbert and Mesa, I can understand that.

Town of Gilbert Land Development Code

4.505 Religious Assembly
Religious assemblies are not exempt from the requirements of the Zoning Code.
Request for Determination. If a religious assembly use believes any requirement of the
Zoning Code imposes a substantial burden on its exercise of its religion, the religious
assembly use shall submit to the Zoning Administrator a written statement as to why any
requirement imposes a substantial burden on its exercise of religion and a description of
any requested accommodation. The Zoning Administrator shall review the statement and
determine:
1. Whether the proposed use is a religious assembly use under the Religious
Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act;
2. Whether the requirement imposes a substantial burden on the exercise of
religion by the religious assembly use;
3. If the requirement imposes a substantial burden, whether the requirement
furthers a compelling governmental interest of the Town, and if so,
whether it is the least restrictive requirement necessary to further that
compelling governmental interest; and
4. The nature and extent of any accommodation, waiver, or adjustment to a
requirement of the Zoning Code, if any.
Senior Housing. Senior housing incidental to Large-Scale Religious Assembly uses may
be permitted upon approval of a Conditional Use Permit.