9/11 Truthers [COULD BE] Locked Up For Life under New US Law.

Originally posted by hermes.trismegistus
reply to post by djusdjus

 

Though this particular piece of legislation may or may not be passed. To say that this is "retarded nonsense with no basis in reality whatsoever"
is in itself a statement founded on a myopic or potentially illusionary reality in itself. As i work " within the Beltway" i can assure you that many poeple who are aware of ‘‘Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010" or S.3081 are quite concerned, and aware of the forces behind it. It would be good to discover who has encourgaed Senators Mcain and Liberman in their pursuit of such measures.

How did those people feel about the Patriot Act and the domestic enemy combatant provision that was in there?

The only people who have been charged (including being mysteriously killed) for 9/11 are the ones trying to expose the truth behind 9/11. Maybe that's a basis alone for the non-believers to put 2 and 2 together?

Even if a soldier in Iraq came across Bin Laden (hiding in a cave somewhere ) they wouldn't be able to prosecute him because there's not a shred of evidence linking him as the sole mastermind of the attacks. If the FBI really wanted Bin laden they would've had him by now. So what are they really doing? Nothing.

The State doesn't investigate themselves. Nobody will EVER be charged for 9/11 except the ones who are trying to expose the truth. And Fox News wonders why there's conspiracy theories?

9/11 is one of the easiest conspiracies to cut through. Bin Laden will never be charged. Truthers will. That's a safe bet.

This is the sort of thing that should enrage the American people to the point of movement. Not to sit and ponder what else is next.

It's the same story here in the UK, the government does somthing to upset the people and we just complain about how bad it is - the mainstream media jump on the bandwagon and claim it's terrible and shouldn't have been done and a few months down the line people have nearly forgotten about it.

A small minority is ready to move and fight for their country, to remove the tyranny, but the large majority won't because they have too much to lose.

When there is fresh hot and cold water, power, fuel, food on demand, heating and all the small comforts available and at their disposal, what do they want to fight for?

What will it take?

'Fear the man who has nothing to lose, for he who has nothing to lose has nothing to fear.'

Thanks ChemBreather for posting info about this important bill. Here are a few more threads about this bill. In the largest thread, the discussion spans only over 4 pages. In my opinion this bill is so important that any repost is a fine thing. We should help to make everyone aware of the danger this bill poses.

Dissenters To Be Detained As "Enemy Belligerents"?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lieberman and McCain Table Draconian Detention Bill For US Citizens
www.abovetopsecret.com...

A Detention Bill You Ought to Read More Carefully
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.theatlantic.com...

reply to post by ChemBreather


Is this going to be retro active?

I wonder if they are going to arrest American's that know the Gulf of Tonkin was also staged?

Perhaps they will arrest those who revealed Operation Northwoods. Pretty much the same thing.

(Operation Northwoods, a false-flag plan that originated within the United States government in 1962 The plan called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other operatives to commit genuine acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.-Wikipedia) Sound familiar?

No - our own Government would never stage anything to make war with another country!



[edit on 15-3-2010 by arizonascott]

With daylight savings time did the entire planet reset some timetable? This is 2002 all over again. FEMA camps that never turned up and the president taking power to declare anyone, including US citizens, an enemy combatant all already happened. The only thing different this time around is one word.

Great news! Chances are the FEMA Camps will be guarded by 10.00 an hour hastily trained employees like the TSA has running security at the airport.

What does that mean? FREE RENT.

Should be a breeze to sneak in and out of those places and lots of potential for selling black market contraband to the other inmates! Twinkies, Twinkies get your Twinkies.

They can only detain you for life if they can actually keep you from escaping for life! That’s not likely.

The more brazen and desperate the Government becomes the closer it is to its eventual and final collapse and the more reasons the people will have to finally put an end to it.

Don’t fear that, welcome that as the change it will usher in.

Things are always darkest before the light, and these are clearly desperate acts, by a desperate government that knows it has lost the true popular support of the people.

There will always be a lot more of us than them, and as such never a reason to fear the government digging its own grave and ultimately that is what it would be doing and it is what it is doing.

Some say the glass is half empty but I on the other hand like to think its half full!

Bottoms up!

The government will be bottom up and truly screwed if it tries this one.

This is startling to me although I admit that I am not versed in the plethora of bills that have been passed or are under consideration by Congress. I believe the bill in question was proposed on 04Mar10, S. 3081, Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010. This bill was also co-sponsored by seven other congressmen besides McCain and Lieberman.

I wanted to take a look at a few parts of the bill itself, first the stated purpose.

"To provide for the interrogation and detention of enemy belligerents who commit hostile acts against the United States, to establish certain limitations on the prosecution of such belligerents for such acts, and for other purposes."

First, this already doesn't sit right saying it can be used for other purposes. What could those other purposes be?

Military Custody (sect 2)

"(a) Military Custody Requirement- Whenever within the United States, its territories, and possessions, or outside the territorial limits of the United States, an individual is captured or otherwise comes into the custody or under the effective control of the United States who is suspected of engaging in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners through an act of terrorism, or by other means in violation of the laws of war, or of purposely and materially supporting such hostilities, and who may be an unprivileged enemy belligerent, the individual shall be placed in military custody for purposes of initial interrogation and determination of status in accordance with the provisions of this Act."

So this section is quite comprehensive in its scope of when/where/how they detain someone. I would particularly highlight "...or otherwise comes into the custody or under the effective control of..." section, since it doesn't limit it to being any theater of war or conflict. It also doesn't limit it to just perceived actions against the US, but also those against our allies. According to this, you will be under the control of the military for the "initial" interrogation and determination of "status". Even at this point in my view, there could be a very long wait to see the light of day.

Reasonable Delay (sect 2)

"(b) Reasonable Delay for Intelligence Activities- An individual ... may be held, interrogated, or transported by the intelligence agency and placed into military custody for purposes of this Act if retained by the United States within a reasonable time after the capture or coming into the custody or effective control by the intelligence agency, giving due consideration to operational needs and requirements to avoid compromise or disclosure of an intelligence mission or intelligence sources or methods."

So, what do they consider a "reasonable delay"? They are only giving consideration for things that affect some important operation and doesn't even consider the individual.

There is quite a lot of stuff here, and I've decided not to cover it right now. The next part is section 5 which talks to detention without trial.

Detention without trial (sect 5)

"An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent ... may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States...consistent with the law of war and any authorization for the use of military force provided by Congress pertaining to such hostilities.

Here is where it becomes a little more unnerving to me with reference to "an individual, including a citizen of the United States" can be classified as an unprivileged enemy belligerent and detained without charges levied against them "...for the duration of hostilities against the United States..." that they are perceived to be engaged in. The scariest part for me is because the so-called war on terror can go on indefinitely!

Ex Scientia Veritas

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I'm with you Pro-Trav. Seems 'ol Uncle Sam just wants to "create jobs" by hiring those $10 an hour folks to keep us radicals in line. So, that's Obama's job creation stratagy, right?

On the mark, with your Twinkies idea. I am going to buy futures in Hostess, cause I know you'll be stockpiling those delicous morsels of puffy sugar for the camp. Makes my heart warm knowing you care for us inmates like that.

Hey, ya know maybe the FEMA camps will be like 'ol Camp Whachdoinkid I went to as a child...not so bad!

........................................

reply to post by FermiFlux


I couldn't agree with you more! If this bill were to become law (and I think it has a very real chance of doing so, thanks to the vague language in it), then anyone who questions the government, could be in for it! i can see that maybe one or two would support this in Congress, but to see seven others as co-sponsors really gives me pause!

reply to post by romanmel

Hey, ya know maybe the FEMA camps will be like 'ol Camp Whachdoinkid I went to as a child...not so bad!

The truth is most people will never have it so good! Remember the FEMA Camps will feature 800.00 dollar toilet seats and 600.00 dollar chairs, and 1,200.00 dollar hammers in the wood shops! That’s rich living let me tell you!

Culinary classes will teach those who utilize non-traditional sources of information to utilize tasty cookbooks instead to the epicurean delight of the other inmates!

Wood shops, bocce ball courts, tennis and golf courses, pool tables, libraries full of approved reading material and greenhouses and first run movie theatres showing the Official Story of EVERYTHING will entertain people to their heart’s content.

Most won’t want to leave! Who could blame them.

congratulations to u americans, I mean ... one thing is for u to give your money away, that happens to all countries, the gov usually doesnt give back

but to make you stop being able to think and write what u are thinking, thats the worse thing someone could do

congratulations, you live in the worse country in the world ... and soon probably will fall since a lot of people are predicting

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Faiol]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wow, you paint a pretty picture, Pro-Trav! Where do I signup? Hope they hire you as entertainment director/chef.

Ya think they might serve some of that delicious Soilent Green I've heard so much about? Bon appétit! All these "nay-sayers" bad mouthing our benevolent masters just makes my skin crawl. When will people realize how sweet the FEMA camps are going to be?

The Zionists are on a tyrannical tirade here.

They are pushing to silence the Truther movement because they know that people are waking up to the fact that they were behind 911.

I haven't seen it posted here on ATS but the entire concept of the War on Terror was coined by non other than Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu in his book Fighting Terrorism (1995).

With dual citizenship Zionist Lieberman sponsoring this Bill, and concurrently we have another Zionistic schill, Chuck Schumer, pressing for the National Biometric ID card.

With laws such as this , if passed by the legislature, It won't be long before we're all treated exactly as the Palestinians are !

Why is this law even necessary if we already have a law, called the Patriot Act, pertaining to enemies of the state/terrorists ?

Why would we even need such a bill if it weren't to remove even more rights from United States citizens ?

The difference I see here is that the Patriot Act required an individual to conspire and/or commit an act of violence, with the use of dangerous weapons, in order to be deemed an enemy combatant/or terrorist. Only then would one have sacrificed their constitutional rights of Habeas Corpus.

Habeas Corpus is defined essentially as the the legal right to defend oneself against/from unlawful detention.

The problem that I see with This bill is that it essentially waters down that requirement, removing the dangerous weapon provision of the Patriot Act, to instead, simply a "belligerent act".

This WILL potentially allow the law to be highly subject to subjective interpretation and potentially abused by Government as well as law enforcement.

This will only provide the right to arrest and detain indefinitely merely based upon the discretion (judge and jury) of the officer involved determining any citizen's behaviour as being deemed "billigerent" or not.

That is my concern here.

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Wow, you paint a pretty picture, Pro-Trav! Where do I signup? Hope they hire you as entertainment director/chef.

Ya think they might serve some of that delicious Soilent Green I've heard so much about? Bon appétit! All these "nay-sayers" bad mouthing our benevolent masters just makes my skin crawl. When will people realize how sweet the FEMA camps are going to be?

All Federal Prisons have a Recreation Director with a discretionary budget!

Happy inmates don't riot, entertained inmates are happy inmates. So keeping the inmates entertained is a big part of running a well oiled prison.

Remember it is the inmates who make the 800.00 toilet seats and 1,200.00 dollar hammers for a few pennies an hour that private prison industries then get to sell for a huge profit to the government!

So a happy, well entertained and productive slave work force is vital to maximizing state profits.

This is after all the Roman way!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


As the Romans would say...

si post fata venit gloria non propero
If glory comes after death, I'm not in a hurry

All the best Pro-Trav...catch you on another thread, I'm sure!

This post is for those who are saying that being concerned about S.3081 is an overreaction.
You can read the progress on the bill here:
Thomas Library of Congress

Sponsor: Sen McCain, John [AZ] (introduced 3/4/2010) Cosponsors (9)
Latest Major Action: 3/4/2010 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

One of the cosponsors is ranking member of the committee, Jef Sessions R-AL.
Senate Committee on the Judiciary

((2) CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION OF INDIVIDUALS AS HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES- The regulations required by this subsection shall include criteria for designating an individual as a high-value detainee based on the following:
.......
(C) The potential intelligence value of the individual.
........
(E) Such other matters as the President considers appropriate.

Read between the lines: (C) & (E) Poltical enemies or those who are closing in on criminal and perp cronies? Do it say so? No. Does it say not? No.
Checks and balances guaranteed by the Constitution once one is detained? No.

No use of torture to obtain a "confession", does it say so? No.

Does it overturn Miranda vs. Arizona? Yes, except it goes further in that there is no presumption that there will be a trial by a jury of peers.

This is very dangerous for anyone trying to peacefully bring about effective change in the way we are governed.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

I'm sorry, I would comment but I don't really understand it right now.
I think this is the legislation that McCain has tried to push through, that does not state any difference in a citizen dissident and a foreign one?

I'm very cloudy on this healthcare thing too. I don't understand the legislation enough to comment on it. I don't think it sounds good, but I don't think I even know what to read if I were going to read it. I read one really long one, and it wasn't the one.

I've been busy, you know, trying to plant a garden and painting and decorating a new room for us.

I NEED a better functioning media. I have ROKU and they now have a foreign media channel, so I've been watching Russian and French news but there is not enough time in the day for all the bad junk that seems to be going on!

This in incredible. We need to do something.

Who in their right mind would accept going into a FEMA camp and surrendering? How dumb do they believe we are? Law or not- people will not go. The laws of a government cannot infringe on your freedom and right to live. People will never go for this.

Looks to me like they are getting desperate. Quite desperate.