Skeptic's dilemma regarding alleged UA93 wreckage

Originally posted by hooper
I claimed that there was a media report about material from the plane involved in Flight 93 being in storage and that the storage operation was maintained by a company called Iron Mountain.

NO you claimed that parts from flight 93 were stored, you failed to show evidence to support this theory.

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by hooper
I claimed that there was a media report about material from the plane involved in Flight 93 being in storage and that the storage operation was maintained by a company called Iron Mountain.

NO you claimed that parts from flight 93 were stored, you failed to show evidence to support this theory.

Well, I did not claim that, however, be that as it may I did show evidence to support the theory that the material is in storage, the media report.

Now, if you have evidence that any and/or all parties to that report are lying, then please present your proof. I am waiting patiently.

Originally posted by hooper
Well, I did not claim that,

Do i have to show your posts again that show thats what you claim?

however, be that as it may I did show evidence to support the theory that the material is in storage, the media report.


As stated many times the media report IS NOT real evidence.

I asked for proper evidence.

Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by hooper
Well, I did not claim that,

Do i have to show your posts again that show thats what you claim?

however, be that as it may I did show evidence to support the theory that the material is in storage, the media report.

As stated many times the media report IS NOT real evidence.

I asked for proper evidence.

And as I have stated many times before - you are not the measure of all things. There is the report you are accusing any number of groups, companies and indiviuals of lying. Prove your case.

Skeptics,

Just concede that there was nothing buried underneath the shallow crater in that Shanksville field. If there was, the media would have reported about it as soon as it was uncovered from the ground.

The FBI staged the black box and engine being dug out photos.

It was all a lie by them to make the world think a 757 crashed in that field.

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics,

Just concede that there was nothing buried underneath the shallow crater in that Shanksville field. If there was, the media would have reported about it as soon as it was uncovered from the ground.

The FBI staged the black box and engine being dug out photos.

It was all a lie by them to make the world think a 757 crashed in that field.

You know all this how? Just because you believe things should go a certain way doesn't make it so. You have zero proof of anything.

You can't prove there was no plane there you can just give your opinion, which frankly isn't worth squat.

reply to post by macaronicaesar

You should read the OP the follow along before you make stupid comments.

Officials are telling us that, at the very least, a "sizable" portion of UA93 was buried, although every indication says that most of UA93 was buried. There is no proof of this except two closeup photos of dirt-free black boxes that it's impossible to tell where exactly they were taken and only one photo of a plane part allegedly being dug up, an engine part that's also dirt-free and not even submerged in the ground and coincidentally fits in the backhoe bucket right next to it.

The media didn't even start reporting that most of the plane was buried as part of the official story until a YEAR later, further proof nothing was buried.

There can be no other logical or rational explanation as to why so much of a 757 was reportedly found buried, but so little evidence supports it's and the media waits an entire year before reporting it as the official story.

Do the honorable thing and concede defeat. You skeptics have nothing on this one.

Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by macaronicaesar

 

You should read the OP the follow along before you make stupid comments.

Officials are telling us that, at the very least, a "sizable" portion of UA93 was buried, although every indication says that most of UA93 was buried. There is no proof of this except two closeup photos of dirt-free black boxes that it's impossible to tell where exactly they were taken and only one photo of a plane part allegedly being dug up, an engine part that's also dirt-free and not even submerged in the ground and coincidentally fits in the backhoe bucket right next to it.

The media didn't even start reporting that most of the plane was buried as part of the official story until a YEAR later, further proof nothing was buried.

There can be no other logical or rational explanation as to why so much of a 757 was reportedly found buried, but so little evidence supports it's and the media waits an entire year before reporting it as the official story.

Do the honorable thing and concede defeat. You skeptics have nothing on this one.

Really? That's it? That's the totality of your argument, the full basis for your beliefs? The fact that you don't think the media spent enough time being flabbergasted by what you think is the strange notion that when a plane hits the ground at over 500 mph some of the plane may be embedded in the earth.

Even during a slow news peiod that would hardly be newsworthy let alone as the country was getting ready to go to war and they were still picking through the rubble of both the World Trade Center towers hoping against hope of finding survivors.

I don't remember any press reports that specifically stated that the remains of Flight 800 were wet when they brought them out of the ocean, so maybe there is something to explore there as well.

Originally posted by hooper
The fact that you don't think the media spent enough time being flabbergasted by what you think is the strange notion that when a plane hits the ground at over 500 mph some of the plane may be embedded in the earth.

hooper, why do you keep lying that it was supposedly only "some" of the plane? You know very well it was supposedly "most" of the plane (ask Weedwacker).

hooper let me ask you, how much of UA93 was supposedly recovered?

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by SPreston

 

SPreston, you are making a problem where there isnt.

The secondary debris field consisted of LIGHT MATERIALS:
shreds of clothes, cloths, paper, insulation, nylon webbing, shredded magazines, mail, basically anything that can be sucked up into a fireball and deposited downwind.

Wow, you just make these things as you go along.

The second debris field? Post sources as to what they found there, some images etc....

As for the crater, like it has been proven before... It is too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. This is painfully obvious.

What ever caused the crater was extremely small compared to a Boeing 757 and did not have wings anywhere near the wingspan of a Boeing 757.

Nice try tho.

Making up things as I go along? boy oh boy, you must never get out of that conspiracy website box, do you? cause if you did, you would have seen a lot of accounts of LIGHT debris falling from the sky AFTER the plane impacted the ground.

Lets ask the people what they found at the secondary debris field by New Baltimore :

"He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville.

For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports.

"And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner.

www.post-gazette.com...

Wow! lets see what else?

Workers at Indian Lake Marina said that they saw a cloud of confetti-like debris descend on the lake and nearby farms minutes after hearing the explosion that signaled the crash.

Those discoveries, which ranged from a five-inch bone fragment to an endorsed paycheck as much as eight miles downwind of the crash site, sent investigators on a hunt across a countryside that is mostly farms and woodlands. Bits of debris probably blew even farther, Szupinka said.

Carol Delasko, who works at the marina, said she saw a light cloud that stretched several hundred feet across rising about 200 feet into the air moments after the crash.

"It was white," said Theresa Weyant, borough secretary for the nearby resort community of Indian Lake, "so you looked up and it and you saw shiny stuff floating in the sky ... sparkly, shiny stuff, like confetti."

When it got to Terry Lowery's 65-acre farm, about three-quarters of a mile away, "it just looked like it was raining down," Lowery said.

"Paper, insulation and mail -- I picked a bunch up," he said.

Yesterday, a state police helicopter circled overhead as much as five miles downwind of the crash site. Its mission: to find debris -- mostly paper, postage stamp-size pieces of rubberized material and strands of charred insulation.

On Wednesday morning, marina Service Manager John Fleegle found what he figured was a bone, washed up on one of the marina's concrete boat launches.

"It was maybe five inches long. It put me in mind of maybe a rib bone," Fleegle said. "I called the state police. They contacted the FBI, and they picked it up."

Six miles to the southeast, at New Baltimore, a town of 630 people, Andy Stoe was in his yard Wednesday night when he found two scraps of paper -- one an endorsed check for $698, made out to a San Jose, Calif. man who was not on the passenger list. The other paper was a financial statement, singed around the edges.

In Indian Lake, another crumpled financial statement lay amid thumbnail-size pieces of fabric and charred plastic, scattered across back yards.

On the Lowery farm, it rained financial statements -- enough that Lowery and wife Gerry had a handful in the three one-gallon plastic bags of debris they turned over to investigators.

"They said they found unopened mail," Gerry Lowery said of the mix of state police and FBI searchers who walked almost shoulder-to-shoulder through their fields all day Wednesday and yesterday. "They found a picture, a snapshot of a baby. That just caused goose bumps for me."

Szupinka said that lighter, smaller debris probably shot into the air on the heat of a fireball that witnesses said shot several hundred feet into the air after the jetliner crashed. Then, it probably rode a wind that was blowing southeast at about 9 mph, Crowley said.

"According to the NTSB, not only is that possible ... it is probable that this stuff is debris from this crash," he said. He and Szupinka said additional debris may be submerged in the lake, as well as in a drainage pond near the crash crater, and may have to be retrieved later by divers."

post-gazette.com...

Well there you have it. And you know, Shadow, your incredulous remarks just prove to me that you never did do any true research, nor do you intend to do, to find the truth. Break away from the truther sites and do some real research. You just learned right here what that LIGHT DEBRIS was all about. Lets see you deny this.

Edit to add: more on the debris:
web.archive.org...://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/09/16ruralparesident.html

[edit on 3/29/2010 by GenRadek]

I would also advise people to read this NTSB report of a VERY SIMILAR crash of a 737 Flight 427 that did a nosedive into the ground.

Be sure to read the Wreckage and Impact Information section. Its 1.12.1 in the report, page 36 of the document and page 60 of the pdf.

www.ntsb.gov...

There are very interesting similarties between Flight 93 and Flight 427, particularly the light debris field itself:

A ground and helicopter search for additional airplane components was conducted during the on-site phase of the investigation, but no additional components were found. Several light-weight items (for example, pieces of interior insulation and a passenger business card) were discovered as far as 2½ miles east-northeast of the main wreckage; these items exhibited soot and smoke damage. One witness stated that he heard the sound of the crash while he was playing golf about 2 miles east-northeast of the accident site; about 2 minutes later, he observed blackened insulation falling onto the golf course. The insulation, business card, and sections of the airplane’s cargo liner were sent to Safety Board and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) laboratories for examination, which revealed no evidence of explosive residue.

Also a nice part about the BURIED debris:

Because some portions of the wreckage were not visible above the ground, investigative personnel used ground-penetrating radar (GPR) to locate and recover additional pieces of the wreckage. (See section 1.19 for details about the use of GPR.) Some pieces of wreckage were excavated from the hillside at depths of up to 8 feet.

And this was from an impact of about 190kts, as last indicated by the FDR. Gee I wonder what a much faster impact would do?

[edit on 3/29/2010 by GenRadek]

Originally posted by hooper
Prove your case.

I do not need to prove my case becasue you have failed to show any evidence to support your claim.

Originally posted by ATH911
Originally posted by hooper

hooper, why do you keep lying that it was supposedly only "some" of the plane? You know very well it was supposedly "most" of the plane (ask Weedwacker).

"Some", "most", "alot", again it is irrelevant. Like arguing about whether a cotton ball is "soft" or "really soft". The material was embedded and/or mixed in with the crater ejecta. Completely beside the point. Still no reason for a "stop the presses" moment as you suggest, particularly in the news climate of that period.

hooper let me ask you, how much of UA93 was supposedly recovered?

Why? Just make your point. A spokesman for the FBI said about 95%? Don't remember exactly. Doesn't really matter. Are you still trying to argue that all the bodies of the victims should be buried in the ground?

Originally posted by ATH911
hooper let me ask you, how much of UA93 was supposedly recovered?

You should know better then to ask hooper that, he wil not give you a straight answer.

I have been trying to get a answer from him for along time about his claim that the parts are stored too.



[edit on 30-3-2010 by REMISNE]