The Heros And Frauds of the UFO Movement

reply to post by karl 12

Part of Hynek's "conversion" was his own spotting of a UFO aboard an airliner. He photographed it with a stereo camera he carried.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by karl 12

 

Part of Hynek's "conversion" was his own spotting of a UFO aboard an airliner. He photographed it with a stereo camera he carried.

DJW001 - I'm sure it played a role in him taking the UFO subject seriously - its interesting because Dr James Mcdonald also had a UFO sighting in the Arizona desert in 1954.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cheers.

Originally posted by DJW001
It's been a long time since I've really followed the UFO world, but based on my childhood fascination I'd have to say Donald Kehoe, J. Allen Hynek...

Hynek.....years ago while at the Ohio State University I saw on public display a very volumus set of books that turned out to be an index a bibliography if you will, created by Hynek, of all the news paper reports, articles ect published wherever he could find them. Many were probably forwarded to him. There were literaly thousands of refrences in that collection that had at least 20 volumes. Very impressive. That was actualy my introduction to Hynek.

What stands out about Kehoe for me anyway is the way, so the story goes, that his work and network for collecting info was shut down by his predecessor. An "ex" CIA guy.

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
They have gotten rid of any semblance of coherence or any facade of scientific-mindedness.

Well, at least they are doing what the Elohim want, which is to be a bunch of raving retards whom have no concept of science as described in the beginning of his book. heh

Anyways... I didn't even know that Rael was known internationally.. I always thought of them as a local phenoma...

The internet lets anyone claim to be known internationally...but no, never heard of him until I came across a thread here on ATS speaking of him. Little green men however is the staplemark of what people say about aliens when they dont know much about the subject...perhaps that originated from him.

incidently, I wanted to thank the contributions so far, alot of names to look up.
I am still holding high hopes for Greer to produce something as great as what he produced 2001 in relevance for the average UFOer.

I came across a website called UFO Congress. Flipping through it is pretty interesting, but not sure how "down to earth" they are...

Granted, I just got to the end of the first page but I actually believe in Bob Lazar - I actually think he is credible.

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
Granted, I just got to the end of the first page but I actually believe in Bob Lazar - I actually think he is credible.

Lazar has all the traits of the hoaxer/liar/fantasist/disinfo guy. His claimed history is dubious. Stan Friedman couldn't find anyone, or records, that supported his claim he was an MIT student...no lecturers, no yearbooks, no peers.

Even now, there's no evidence that he was the guy he said he was or did the things he said he did.

The one obstacle between him and the trashcan is George Knapp. He knew Lazar for a while and still entertains a smidgin of doubt...a tiny seed of confusion. If not for Knapp having Lazar in the 'grey basket,' he'd be 100% rejected IMO.

reply to post by Kandinsky



How do you feel about his name being in the base phone book?

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

How do you feel about his name being in the base phone book?

How do you feel?

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
Granted, I just got to the end of the first page but I actually believe in Bob Lazar - I actually think he is credible.

Lazar has all the traits of the hoaxer/liar/fantasist/disinfo guy. His claimed history is dubious. Stan Friedman couldn't find anyone, or records, that supported his claim he was an MIT student...no lecturers, no yearbooks, no peers.

Even now, there's no evidence that he was the guy he said he was or did the things he said he did.

The one obstacle between him and the trashcan is George Knapp. He knew Lazar for a while and still entertains a smidgin of doubt...a tiny seed of confusion. If not for Knapp having Lazar in the 'grey basket,' he'd be 100% rejected IMO.

The thing is though its not difficult for governments to delete people or give people secret identities. They do it all the time, in the US for the witness protection schemes and in the UK a most recent prime example would be the murderers of Jamie Bulger, Robert Thompson and Jon Venables. We're still unable to find out who Jon Venables is now.

Another prime example of fake identities is those spies that murdered the hamas guy in Dubai. **IF** I was the government and had a top secret programme, it stands to reason I would give my staff secret identities too. Moreover if anyone turned against me, I could use the same powers to erase people. If you have access to any computer system it only takes a couple of clicks.

Originally posted by internos
Many heros have been mentioned before, but i will add some names:
IsaacKoi [ATS]
Gazrok [ATS]
Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
Kentaro Mori


[edit on 14/3/2010 by internos]

For the uninitiated will people please give links to why these ATS members are considered heroes.... thanks

I'm pretty much in agreement with the ufowatchdog site...

But, yeah, there are a lot of additional good (and bad) ones mentioned previously in this thread.

Thanks to anybody who put me in the good guys camp...



[edit on 15-3-2010 by Gazrok]

reply to post by Loopdaloop
It's conceivably true. It's hard to go through high school and then through university without leaving any evidence. ABC agencies can *maybe* rinse all the documentation. They can't make people forget who sat in their classes. They can't track down all the year books and edit them.

Not one shred of evidence has been put forth to support this story: No diplomas, no resumes, no transcripts, no memberships in professional organizations, no papers, no pages from MIT or Caltech yearbooks. He also mentioned, in a conversation with me, California State University at Northridge and Pierce Junior College -- also in the San Fernando Valley, California. I checked all four schools. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. The other three schools never heard of him.

Stan Friedman

IMO, based on the accounts of people that have known him, associated with him and tried to authenticate his claims...he's probably a hoaxer. As I mentioned, Knapp is the one referee that has a doubt. Due to Knapp's prior relationship with Lazar...his doubts are worth considering.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

How do you feel about his name being in the base phone book?

How do you feel?

That made me laugh...felt like I was at a therapists office for a moment.

And how does that make YOU feel?

-edit: bad touch

[edit on 15-3-2010 by SaturnFX]

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

How do you feel about his name being in the base phone book?

How do you feel?

It sticks out whenever I hear the name but dont have a strong opinon about him one way or another really. Saw an interview where he produced the book. Base commander said he had no idea how the name got in there. I realize that in a pure evidentiary way the book needs another to back it up and that Bob had the only copy.

Originally posted by CodenameDoeB
The man that killed 2 alien greys - Phil Schneider

This is my hero in the Alien field, i haven't even checked to see if this guys been debunked because i just love his story, Even if he was lying i still believe him

Although there are quite a few people that "say" he is all fake, I don't believe that. Some of things he claimed may have an appearance of being outlandish, but I Think he was a very honorable guy and I think he believed in what he was doing. Sometimes when the majority and logic tells us things must be false, only to later discover they were all totally wrong and "it" really was true afterall

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
For the uninitiated will people please give links to why these ATS members are considered heroes.... thanks

Well, since you've joined on 30/1/2005 your request sounds a little bit odd... doesn't it? .
Jokes aside, you're right, my post was too short, I'll share my take with much pleasure
First, please let me point out once again that my short list was in addition to the ones posted previously, with most i'm in agreement.
I consider ALL our FSME a treasure for ufology, regardless we'd call them "heroes" or "Donald Duck".
Jkrog08 with his incredibly well researched threads has raised the bar to some level that will never be reached by anyone else, but I have to say that what Karl 12 is presently doing definately compares to it:
I can safely state that they are the best threads starters here in the Aliens & UFOs forum, in my humble opinion;
plus, of course, there are other members who contributed with some rare Gems (there are too many example to mention them all).
Gazrok is the man whenever it comes to talk about milestones in UFOlogy, just check some of his contributions about (for example) Roswell, and you will easily get what i mean.
ArMaP is one of my favourite members in general, but regarding this subject matter he's some walking encyclopaedia whenever we talk about images from probes in outer space, plus he always contributes using reason, logic and common sense, and has also a good knowledge in photography: last but not least he never lies.
Jeff Ritzmann is one of the best image analysts i've ever seen, together with Bruce Maccabee.
I consider IsaacKoi to be a FSME because to my eyes he IS a subject matter: whenever he either adds something to a thread or starts some new one, he shares also corroborating evidences, sources and references: plus, he does a precious work in identifying both aliens & UFOs photos and videos, something that we really need, also given the huge amount of re-posts.
But the real strengh of ATS is that here you can find some great brains at work all together: a surplus value of this website (NOT only about Aliens & UFOs forum) are the many experts in several subject matters: an example that comes to mind are OzWeatherman and Essan whenever someone posts something that has to do with clouds or weather in general:
whenever it happens here in A&U forum, i message one of them: I don't see why I should randomly guess any possible explanation to what what I'm looking at, since I can get some actual expert's professional opinion about it. Another surplus value are people coming from all over the world:
here language barriers are being broken, thanks to the contributions of those who take the time to translate for us stuff that otherwise we might miss forever.
This says it all about the POWER of this place: ATSers are its POWER.
I don't deem myself subject matter expert: all I do is to share the few things I know and my humble opinions: sometimes I could be wrong, sometimes i could be right, it doesn't matter: what matters is to TRY to deny ignorance.
For those who are approaching the subject matter for the first time I would have some humble advices:
put straight in your trash bin channelers, nibiru/2012 conspiracy theorists, Galactic Federation supporters, people who see monkeys & crocodiles in EVERY mars image, people who claim to film alien spacecrafts on daily basis, people who blames HAARP for everything regardless it's an earthquake, a strange cloud or some bellyache: this way you will spare much time to dedicate to serious research, if you REALLY are interested in the subject matter: to sit on your arse and claim that Nibiru exists after looking at some interpretation of some sumerian tablet is VERY different from estabilishing that it does NOT exist basing your conclusion on some actual knowledge in astronomy. Knowledge is the most powerful weapon to protect yourself from ignorance.

P.S.: thanks for your nice words, IgnoreTheFacts

- internos


[edit on 15/3/2010 by internos]

Dr. James McDonald is my number one guy. He laid out the facts of the UFO phenomenon in an articulate and well-reasoned nutshell on more than one occasion. A man of obvious intelligence and seriousness, McDonald risked his substantial scientific reputation in an attempt to gain this singularly important topic the attention it warrants from the institutions of science and government. If only he had written a book.

Bernard Haisch, whose Web site - www.ufoskeptic.org... - features a couple dozen great articles, papers and case summaries, is one of the most logical writers on the subject of UFOs that I've come across.

Honorable Mention: Richard Dolan, for writing two massive 600-page books and hopefully a third.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by Orkojoker]

Id say they are all potentially frauds and or heros.No one gets it right all of the time and people are allways looking for the tiniest fault to discredit others in this field.Untill we have irrefutable evidence and the real details of the ufo phenomenon its all speculation.

I think david icke and project camelot really do not have much to do with UFOlogy. David Icke happens to cover a little bit on UFOs from time to time but only when he can tie it into his NWO illuminati lizzard men rule the world conspiracy.
Project camelot is like coast to coast am, they will have anyone on their little interview show.

I like Stanton Friedman for the hero catagory, he kind of reminds me of me. He is often caught between the believers and the skeptics because he goes with the facts instead of what people want to hear.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by zaiger]