Why do humans believe in an afterlife?

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

"Gain of entropy eventually is nothing more nor less than loss of information"

2nd Law of Thermodynamics: The entropy of an isolated system consisting of two regions of space, isolated from one another, each in thermodynamic equilibrium in itself, but not in equilibrium with each other, will, when the isolation that separates the two regions is broken, so that the two regions become able to exchange matter or energy, tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value when the jointly communicating system reaches thermodynamic equilibrium.


Increased Entropy is the gradient from order to disorder. Decreased Entropy is the gradient from disorder to ordered. Entropy, in an isolated system, tends to increase. Heat flows into cold when seeking equilibrium... but heat from a colder system does not flow towards the hotter (more ordered) state.

I didn't realize Al and Stevie figured out how to break Thermodynamics.


Also, you seem to contradict yourself. In the first paragraph I quoted in my reply, you state these two propositions.

If the 'soul' is merely the organized energy of the person, then the loss of the organic computer (the brain) should only force the energy that is the individual to trancend the physical.

energy never disapates,

Energy most certainly does dissipate, else wise - ice cubes would never melt, ripples would never fade, and you would die of starvation... and then your body would never decay. I think you mean that energy cannot be destroyed. That certainly is true, but if you posit the soul is made of energy - then it cannot "transcend the physical". Energy is the physical. Energy and Matter are one in the same. To transcend from the material to the immaterial would generate a net loss of energy in the Universe - which (as already stated) cannot be created or destroyed.

reply to post by Lasheic


The laws of thermodynamics only apply to closed systems. This is not the case here...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Unless you're referring to the universe as a whole, I can't determine whether or not to consider the system open or closed until you provide a descriptive framework for the systems you're relating to each other. Regardless, an open system doesn't negate the rules of Thermodynamics. Energy is still not created or lost; it just means you're increasing/decreasing entropy as it seeks equilibrium from a system you're not accounting for.

Nor would defining open/closed system allow for the material to become immaterial... because energy is a physical property of the universe. If it became immaterial, it would be non-existent... I.E., destroyed.


For practical purposes, yes, the Universe is considered a closed system. Even if we suppose that there was some mechanism capable of generating energy out of nothingness out beyond the observable universe - it wouldn't effect us. Our boundary for defining a closed system is currently the CMBR horizon... because beyond that point, the rate of universal expansion starts to exceed the speed of light. Supposed energy generated from beyond that point will never reach us.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Lasheic

 

The laws of thermodynamics only apply to closed systems. This is not the case here...

The known universe is a closed system.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Key word: Known...

And we humans don't know crap... We just think we do...

[edit on 13-3-2010 by JaxonRoberts]

reply to post by Lasheic


Enough of the scientific 'Us v. Them' siderail... It is not the central topic of this thread... Just in case you forgot what that was:

Why do humans believe in an afterlife?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Why do humans believe in an afterlife?

Because they want to.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
Carl Sagan

Forgive me for not reading through the entire thread so some of this may have already been posted.
I personally do paranormal investigations and outside of seeing a lady in a white gown with my own eyes I have come up with no visible proof of my own to say that our loved ones continue to exist as another form of energy after they pass.
I do however have quite a few EVP's some of which are quite frightening.
I am kind of torn on the subject of what exactly spirits are.
Knowing a little bit about metaphysics I believe that every time anyone is faced with a decision another parallel universe is created because any decision can go either way so in a sense a different reality comes into existence, one for each possibility.
If this is the case then there are infinite parallel universes existing at the same time as our own.
I believe that sometimes these universes can bleed through into ours and could possibly be the reason we see and hear "ghosts."
I am not discounting that they could be the spirits of the dead because I'm not sure that's not the case but it is another possibility.

Originally posted by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY
Forgive me for not reading through the entire thread...[..]

I do however have quite a few EVP's some of which are quite frightening.

i'm guilty too... mea culpa

those EVPs have one explaination (according to cynics)...
it is theorized that the EVP voice/message (played slow or backwards so it will be distinguishable & make sense) is only the result of the recording being a mere overlay, that is a 'bleed' of previous taped voices corrupting the tape.

I'm not certain if the technical aspects of a digital recorder are quite different from the old technology of magnetic tapes... but thats the explaination i heard on some YT thingy about 'EVPs' awhile back -
well- that's a clue on what to research for if your really interested in EVP as a credible proof of life-after-death.


(read your history, there were automatic writing & episodes of spirit rapping, table liftings---all in the early 20th century era of spiritualism...
and harry hudini did his best to find out the truth...all he found were frauds & assorted tricksters....

is that the status of todays phenomena ? a bunch of caca/hockum?

Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY
Forgive me for not reading through the entire thread...[..]

I do however have quite a few EVP's some of which are quite frightening.

i'm guilty too... mea culpa

those EVPs have one explaination (according to cynics)...
it is theorized that the EVP voice/message (played slow or backwards so it will be distinguishable & make sense) is only the result of the recording being a mere overlay, that is a 'bleed' of previous taped voices corrupting the tape.

I'm not certain if the technical aspects of a digital recorder are quite different from the old technology of magnetic tapes... but thats the explaination i heard on some YT thingy about 'EVPs' awhile back -
well- that's a clue on what to research for if your really interested in EVP as a credible proof of life-after-death.


(read your history, there were automatic writing & episodes of spirit rapping, table liftings---all in the early 20th century era of spiritualism...
and harry hudini did his best to find out the truth...all he found were frauds & assorted tricksters....

is that the status of todays phenomena ? a bunch of caca/hockum?

I only use digital recorders just so I'm sure there is no chance of a bleed from a tape.
Even the video camera I use has a built in hard drive instead of using tapes although I have yet to catch anything on video.

I don't know, actually... no one knows if there is an existence of some sort after death. My thoughts are that if there's another dimension I will know and be aware of this but if there is not, than I will not know and I'll be simply ... dead.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Humans believe in the after life because it was past down generation to generation from the one's that was close enough to the start of humans to help explain where we came from and where we go.

Originally posted by Conclusion
I would basically say that if we think about something, we usually discuss it with our self in a little abstract thing I like to call the realm of thought. What puzzles me is this. Thought is something that cannot be measured. The waves that certain thoughts produce can be measured, which does prove that a thought gives off a frequency, but cannot measure the actual thought. Only the individual inside of natural reality and outside of physical reality can perceive only their thoughts. No one else s.

That would put it in a realm of no proof in the physical universe. It is taken for granted that it is real because it falls into the natural universe. Some would argue that a change in frequency is proof itself. I would argue that everything we see, hear, touch, smell, feel, taste, and think is just a change in frequency.

You cannot scientifically prove that another consciousness exists beyond your own.
Consciousness is fundamentally non-physical and abstract.

I believe in an afterlife because there is no reason to believe that consciousness is destroyed when the physical vehicle it inhabits is destroyed.

Why believe in afterlife if you can KNOW, that this physical is only a dream?(and not a pretty one)

Nevertheless everything starts with a belief as a dim realization of a subconscious signal that everything is possible.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by dryadlover]

Believing in life after death is a win win situation, if you believe, and your right, and there is indeed life after death, you will have gained the comfort during your life that death is not the end, and that you will meet all of your loved ones again.

If you have spent your life as a believer, and there is no life after death..............what have you lost?

[edit on 16/3/2010 by Argyll]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Just in case it was not clear enough in the OP, I not only believe I have a 'soul', or eternal essence, but that it will continue on after this biological vessel it is currently residing in ceases to function. I also believe that this is not the first time (and probably not the last) it has resided in such a vessel.

I thank you for your reply Jaxon.
Again you have befuddled me. It actually is very clear. I guess I needed to make sure that's what you were saying.I have a lot of questions for you I hope we can pass over at some point. Some how I'm gaining respect for you as I understand you less and less. Very odd. Good thread SnF

As for me, I believe in God - but also given the numerous NDEs out there, it is interesting that most of them speak of similar things they have seen while on the 'other side' - be it Heaven, or hell.

The different "colors" is the one that amazes me the most - alot of them talk about colors they can't describe because we don't have any words in our language to describe/label them.

And some? Well, some didn't even have to die first to experience the "colors" ...... see this video HERE



HERE is the little girl's website, and her paintings. Simply amazing - she is now 15 - she started paining at 4 or 6 I believe.

/me waves at Randy


[edit on 17-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

[edit on 17-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


That girl is TALENTED. Wow...

Don't have a second line. Just wow.... At 9 years old...

Its the fear of having nothing after death.

we believe in an afterlife becuase we only know life and can not comprehend not existing.