AP Health Care Poll: Only FOUR PERCENT Of Americans Don't Want Any Reform

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Republicans AND Democrats will do ANYTHING to stall major pieces of legislation that pull power away from corporate america and puts it in the hands of the people.

You really don't have a clue. Do you? The healthcare bill isn't about healthcare at all. It is all about big government. If you think that the Government sticks their noses in where thay aren't wanted now, wait and see what happens if this thing passes. This will give them TOTAL control over you and everything you do. You will go from being citizens to being subjects.

Let me ask one simple thing. What in the hell is the regulation of vending machines doing in the healthcare bill?

The GOP has been pushing Medicare reform for years. That is a part of "Healthcare Reform." Word a question properly and you can assure whatever result you are searching for to suit your agenda.

For example, if I were to poll 1,000 people with the question:
"Would you support euthanizing a kitten if it would save the life of a child?" I guarantee the majority of responses would be "Yes, to save a child's life." BANG, I've just created a poll question to support an article titled "Majority of Americans Approve of Killing Kittens." even though that only tells a tiny fraction of the whole story.

We do not need polls to demonstrate the majority opinion of the voters against Obama's healthcare reform plan... we have all the proof we need right in front of us in the form of numerous protests and, especially, in the form of the people of Massachussetts electing a Republican whose whole platform was "NO to Obamacare" over a Democrat whose whole platform was "YES to Obamacare" in a grossly historically liberal district. That election spoke far louder than any polls ever have and the fact that the Democrats were so staggered over it, almost to the point of stunned silence was epic.

Even more ranting….

The control. I hate the idea of the control factor. They talk already about a soft drink tax.

1. I, like 1 out of 20,000 Celtic blooded people am allergic to aspartame so I can’t drink diet pop less I get a migraine, possibly a brain tumor. I wish I could, because I have to pass on some foods I would like to eat that use it, but I can’t take it.
2. I eat exceptionally healthy. Small portions. I watch the food triangle. I am in hard-body shape for a 41 year old and put most 20-somethings to shame with the shape I’m in.

So everyday at lunch I treat myself – oh how dare I – treat myself to a 16 ounce cup of Fanta or Mountain Dew. It’s my treat! It’s my desert! All the fat asses here at work are walking out with slices of cheesecake and all I want in a G-D D-MN Fanta! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!

But no…they want to sic a fat tax on me!

I don’t know a single hippo sized fat ass who drinks anything BUT diet pop. The only people who drink regular pop are the ones who don’t need to lose weight.

Is this off topic? No… because this is exactly what you can expect more of when some bloated government health care program starts busting the budget! Control. Someday you will be denied something you like because someone else is irresponsible! Freedom anyone?



[edit on 10-3-2010 by JonInMichigan]

Originally posted by iMacFanatic

Thing is if it doesn't happen now it won't happen.

[edit on 3/10/2010 by iMacFanatic]

If you are saying that passing a bad bill now is better than waiting for a better bill, I cannot agree with you.

The only reason dems are really pushing this now is as a face-saving gesture for their leadership - obama, pelosi and reid - because they've gone so far out on a limb to push it.

I mean sending a naked White House chief of staff to harangue a democrat that wasn't on board isn't way over the top?

reply to post by iMacFanatic


With the advent of the internet, society has in fact become very polarized.

For example, people who lean to the liberal end of the spectrum tend to view only liberal media. People who lean to the conservative only read the right wing blogosphere.

Both sides seek to disinform and distort the views of the other. The result is there are very few sources of common knowledge which have the public trust. Science is (or maybe was) supposed to one of those bastions, but as politics gets involved, our trust in that begins to fail as well.

Our discourse is so fragmented and there is almost nothing in the way of common terms of reference, and every source which claims to be so is cause for doubt.

The result of the availability of so much information, and all of it considered spurious, is the retreat of the public away from true knowledge and enlightenment, so much so that unless the trend reverses, another Dark Age is not out of the question.

In other words, we have so much information available to us today, but when we refuse to believe in anything other than that which confirms what we already know, we are nothing but ignorant.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by centurion1211

No I am not saying that at all but I have yet to see anything to prove that it is a bad bill because no one has seen it all...just bits and pieces.

Not only that until I see reports from neutral third party saying its a bad bill I am not about to believe the GOP or any of the other opposition flooding the airwaves with disinformation.

Thirty Swing Votes on ObamaCare

From DickMorris.com
These thirty Democratic Congressmen all voted for Obamacare the first time around. But Pelosi cannot count on their votes again as Obama tries to jam the bill through using reconciliation in the Senate. These members are all vulnerable and are frightened of the voter backlash their support for Obamacare has kindled.

Click on link above to view the list of names.

Originally posted by iMacFanatic
reply to post by centurion1211

 

No I am not saying that at all but I have yet to see anything to prove that it is a bad bill because no one has seen it all...just bits and pieces.

And poll after poll shows that a majority don't like those "bits and pieces" they HAVE been allowed to see. So, why would you expect them to think that the whole bill would be any better once forced down their throats and it is basically too late to do anything about it?

Not only that until I see reports from neutral third party saying its a bad bill I am not about to believe the GOP or any of the other opposition flooding the airwaves with disinformation.

Who would qualify as a "neutral third party" for you?

How about the CBO (Congressional Budget Office)? Work for you? Because so far they've been pointing out that obama's recent claims of $1 trillion in savings are more like $100 billion over the next 10 years and MAYBE a trillion dollars after 2020.

Have you got anything to back up your support for obamacare besides your for it because they're (dem leadership) for it?

Please check out this related thread for what appears to be a much smaller and more common sense approach to healthcare reform.

And in the spirit of bi-partisanship, let me also be the first to point out that this legislation is being sponsored by a democrat.

Originally posted by JonInMichigan

Ok. So if one asks if the health care system is broken, most people on both sides of the isle would say "yes, we need reform". If you ask most Americans if they want reform in the form of a government run program, which are always run sooooo well, most people would say no.

Actually, a vast majority of Americans like and want the current government-run programs like Medicare and Social Security.

If you don't believe me try taking them away from the American people. I dare you. They are called the "third rail" in American politics -- step on them and you're dead.

People were in an uproar when the Democrats recently proposed cutting some of the waste in the Medicare program.

Republican congressmen rushed in and painted themselves as defenders of Medicare -- yes, you guessed it, a government-run program. They don't seem to see the irony in what they are doing.

Yes, Americans are happy with Social Security and Medicare, though when asked if they want a "government takeover" of health care millions say no.

As you say, it's all in the way you ask the question.

reply to post by centurion1211

I have never said that I support what you call Obamacare one way or the other...with bits and pieces I like most people don't know enough about it to make an informed decision...and ya know good and well bits and pieces can give a totally different impression of something than the whole picture will...and with all the lies the GOP and their allies have told (like death panels) I don't think there is an average citizen out there who has anything like the whole picture.

All I know is something has to be done and while I consider the Democrats spineless jelly fish I don't trust a word the GOP says.

Originally posted by Sestias

Actually, a vast majority of Americans like and want the current government-run programs like Medicare and Social Security.

If you don't believe me try taking them away from the American people. I dare you. They are called the "third rail" in American politics -- step on them and you're dead.

It's not just Medicare and Social Security, it's all entitlement programs. The problem is, the more entitlement programs you attribute government money to (the last figure I heard was around 40% for how much we spend now), the less money overall you have, or the more money you need to take in taxes, borrowing, or printing. Unfortunately, we can't drop that percentage, likely ever, so the more entitlements we create, the bulkier and more burdensome government becomes. And we won't be able to fix it without some kind of massive revolutionary overhaul, because once people get entitlements... they feel entitled to them.

So, while I totally disagree with the GOP's "outrage" about the proposed Medicare cuts, and yeah, it's totally hypocritical, but it's expected. The Democrats have been accusing the Republicans of wanting to cut entitlements every single election, so I'm sure they were giddy to give a little back. Stupid, and one more reason that the Republicans (which used to be my party) are angering me more than the Democrats. I expect that stuff from the Democrats, and would like to see my own party held to a higher standard.

Funny thing is, I usually don't see the same mindset from anyone else. Usually everyone's happy to see the lying, cheating and stealing as long as it's from their own party and it can be rationalized.

reply to post by iMacFanatic


According to the Speaker of the House, we need to pass the bill and implement it in order to see what's actually in it. That's like jumping off a roof because Pelosi assures you there's a parachute halfway down for you.

[edit on 3/10/2010 by EsSeeEye]

reply to post by EsSeeEye


Yes, it's true that the so-called "middle class" entitlements, especially Social Security, are so deeply entrenched now that they will probably never be rescinded. There would probably be an uprising if that were to happen.

There's more public ambivalence about programs for the poor (many people feel that they, personally, should be allowed to pick and choose those recipients who are deemed "worthy," rather than leaving eligibility determination to the government) but those would also be hard to dismantle.

Almost all developed nations assume that programs that support the general welfare are an inherent responsibility of governments, and a necessary part of the budget.

We are the richest country in the world, but we are also the most likely to insist that we can't afford social responsibility.

There would be enough money if we didn't have trillions of dollars in war debt.

reply to post by iMacFanatic

So much for the GOP claim that there is no support for health care reform in this country.

The GOP never made such a claim. They do claim that there is little support for Obamacare and all it's attendant spending and bloating of another goverment agency.

Originally posted by Sestias

Originally posted by JonInMichigan

Ok. So if one asks if the health care system is broken, most people on both sides of the isle would say "yes, we need reform". If you ask most Americans if they want reform in the form of a government run program, which are always run sooooo well, most people would say no.

Actually, a vast majority of Americans like and want the current government-run programs like Medicare and Social Security.

If you don't believe me try taking them away from the American people. I dare you. They are called the "third rail" in American politics -- step on them and you're dead.

People were in an uproar when the Democrats recently proposed cutting some of the waste in the Medicare program.

Republican congressmen rushed in and painted themselves as defenders of Medicare -- yes, you guessed it, a government-run program. They don't seem to see the irony in what they are doing.

Yes, Americans are happy with Social Security and Medicare, though when asked if they want a "government takeover" of health care millions say no.

As you say, it's all in the way you ask the question.

It’s amazing that most Americans who support those entitlements are good people and can’t see the effect it has on the rest of the country.

If you ask many on welfare if they would walk up to someone who had a job and thieve money out of their wallet, they would say “no, I’m not a crook. I wouldn’t steel their money.” But they have no problem having the government steal the money out of our wallets for them. What else do you call it when someone demands your money so that it may be redistributed at the point of a gun?

What gun? The guns the police and IRS will point at you when you don’t go willingly for refusing to give up your money. You can call it “taxes” or you can call it “the government’s money”, but it’s really just money out of the pocket of someone who earned it. What’s worse, I’m 41, by the time I get to the point where I might want to collect social security, there won’t be any left. All these years of supporting people in these programs and these assclowns in Washington are spending away the money I send them for my future security. Why should I believe that a medical program would be any different?

How about this… let me keep my money and take care of my own future. Let me be free to take care of myself and others can be free to take care of themselves. I’m good with that and if someday I have nothing and die in a gutter, then so be it. I would rather be free than a slave to the state and a bunch of no good lazy slackers who want to THEIVE money out of my wallet. Whether they realize it or not, THEY ARE CROOKS hiding behind the mask of having government thugs do the stealing for them!


[edit on 11-3-2010 by JonInMichigan]

reply to post by JonInMichigan

There is an old adage about you can tell how moral a society is by the way it treats its least fortunate.

The problem with your argument is that it is amoral. Its an I got mine screw you attitude...actually that may not be the exact attitude but it rejects any obligations we may have as a society for the least fortunate among us.

Remember Christ put an obligation on us to help the poor and least fortunate.

I love hearing people rail against welfare. The more they rail the least likely that they have ever seen the inside of a state welfare office or knows what goes on. It is a deeply humiliating experience and the majority of people hate going there and if there was work they would do it.

The big lie...the biggest lie conservatives and Republicans have been telling for decades now is that there isn't enough money to go around...in the world's richest nation there is not enough money???

of course there is...we are as a society greedy and selfish and our priorities are screwed up.

[edit on 3/11/2010 by iMacFanatic]

reply to post by iMacFanatic


And the age old technique of-

What about the children, elderly, downtrodden.

I was waiting for that move to jump in.

Please, this whole thread you have been pushing this. Why have you not addressed any of the issues on this bill.

Access to my frelling bank account, nothing kicks in for four years yet the bill kicks in immediately, etc etc etc etc etc oh, and the payoffs to special interests.

You know, people keep blaming everyone except the Dems for how bad this bill is.

You know, if I get arrested for shooting someone, me blaming the other guys will not cut it. I wonder if it should in this case.

reply to post by iMacFanatic


Well I believe it, see I am one of those very critical of the health care bill now been concocted in congress, But, I want health care reform now what I don't want is the crap that is going to be rammed up our butts to become slaves of the private insurance business by mandate

How about that.

reply to post by endisnighe

I have said repeatedly since none of us have seen anything but bits and pieces of really what are proposals none of us can honestly say whether this bill is bad or not.

I have also repeatedly referred to congressional Democrats as jellyfish...

I have no faith in the Democrats but I have less faith in the Republicans.

If you don't believe me check out what I have to say in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 3/11/2010 by iMacFanatic]