Wall Street Heist (brief, powerful documentary)

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by OBE1

 

So gold has affiliation to wall street as well.

So does wheat.

So does sugar.

They must all be responsible then?

Again, to group in regulated securities with OTC Derivatives is dumb. But since you said it is so it must be. I will agree to disagree.

Didn't say a word about securities...did I ?

I responded to your naive claim that Wall St. doesn't dabble in OTC derivatives [because the OTC market isn't regulated ]

Regulated/Smegulated...of course it does...Wall St. firms invented OTC financial derivatives , and remain the biggest issuers.

The question centered on OTC derivatives [with emphasis on financial]. Gold and the commodities complex trade on a regulated futures exchange.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Don't forget the dairy industry:

thebovine.wordpress.com...

In December 2008, two former Dairy Farmers of America executives and the organization agreed to pay a $12 million civil monetary penalty to the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission for attempting to manipulate milk futures and exceeding speculative position limits. The Kansas City-based organization is believed to represent more than 18,000 dairy farmers and control between 30 and 40 percent of the commodity milk market.

www.consumerwatchdog.org...

ARCHER DANIELS MIDLAND, AJINOMOTO CO. & KYOWA HAKKO KOGYO The three companies pleaded guilty, in separate filings, to felony violations of the anti-trust Sherman Act, for participating in conspiracies to fix prices and allocate sales in lysine and citric acid markets worldwide. The companies paid combined criminal fines of over $120 million.

CONAGRA INC. The food company pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges, including a felony wire fraud count, and additional counts of adulterating, mis-grading and mis-weighing grain in order to defraud farmers and increase its own profit and inventories. ConAgra paid $8.3 million in penalties.

michael-hudson.com...

The Comptroller of the Currency blocked local prosecutors from moving against financial fraud, citing a small-print rule from the Civil War era National Bank Act giving federal agencies the right to override state agencies. Passed in the era of wildcat banking, the rule aimed to prevent elites from using crooked local courts to protect them. But in the early 2000s it was Washington that was protecting national banking elites from state prosecutors such as New York attorney general Eliot Spitzer and his counterparts in Massachusetts and other states. This prompted Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan to remind the Angelides Commission that the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision were “actively engaged in a campaign to thwart state efforts to avert the coming crisis.”[1]

reply to post by OBE1


are you kidding me?

I said otc derivatives and regulated securities are not the same thing

you just repeated exactly what i did

Read my posts.

One more time....

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
"Wall St." is really not about the OTC environment, remember that is not regulated.

Wrong

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by OBE1

 

You are generalizing a bit too much IMO.

If someone markets water lets say and someone sells pencils to this marketer would you say the person that sells pencils also markets water as well?

We share the same stance on OTC D. - but to group in regulated securities and OTC Derivatives is pretty far out in left field and I know you are much smarter than that. I have a feeling you share the same thought as well. Then I suppose the gold you invest in is bogus too? GC trades on CME right? A part of the NEW YORK MERCANTILE EXCHANGE/CME/CHICAGO BOARD OF TRADE?

You must be evil as well. I don't think you are though,

See this post and about 4 others..

It is interesting how you neglect to read all the posts or just choose to ignore them

Even if OTC Der. have begun around the 80's does not make them correlated with an exchange that has been running over 100+ years.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
"Wall St." is really not about the OTC environment, remember that is not regulated.

Wrong

Wall St. is very much about unregulated OTC derivatives...ditto the devastation of the financial sector.

reply to post by OBE1


I'm not sure I even know what you are saying anymore.

On one hand you are saying wall st dabbles in OTC D.

The next you say gold is no part of that because it is on a regulated exchange. Kind of like regulated securities or equities? I wonder if a dime of that money has flowed to OTC Markets?

Just because a firm that is part of the NYSE offers OTC D. in the OTC MARKET does not make "Wall St." part of the OTC Market. Wall St. was never concerned with these entities before 20 years ago according to you and I would be amazed if you went to the floor of the NYSE that you could find a lot of talk on an over the counter market.

I think you like to think you are quite witty and above most people when in reality you like to be the instigator and bathe in sarcasm. It doesn't bother me really but it is becoming quite apparent.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yet there's also no "central counterparty" -- which is exactly the problem -- you got banks combining as investors -- working with wall street.

en.wikipedia.org...

The OTC derivative market is the largest market for derivatives, and is largely unregulated with respect to disclosure of information between the parties, since the OTC market is made up of banks and other highly sophisticated parties, such as hedge funds. Reporting of OTC amounts are difficult because trades can occur in private, without activity being visible on any exchange. According to the Bank for International Settlements, the total outstanding notional amount is $684 trillion (as of June 2008).[4] Of this total notional amount, 67% are interest rate contracts, 8% are credit default swaps (CDS), 9% are foreign exchange contracts, 2% are commodity contracts, 1% are equity contracts, and 12% are other. Because OTC derivatives are not traded on an exchange, there is no central counterparty. Therefore, they are subject to counterparty risk, like an ordinary contract, since each counterparty relies on the other to perform.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


people.brandeis.edu...

In the early 1800s, forward arrangements began to appear to deal with the risk caused by market volatility. These were known as �to arrive� contracts and involved an agreement between a buyer and seller for the future delivery of grain. The quantity and grade of the grain would be specified as well as the delivery date, as well an agreed-upon price. Soon the contracts themselves began to be traded in anticipation of changes in the market price of grain[4]. With increases in trading volume increased came a realization of the benefits of standardization and the need for an organized exchange. The result, in 1848, was the founding of the Chicago Board of Trade. Other early exchanges involved in futures trading in the US included the New York Cotton Exchange, established in 1870, and the New York Coffee Exchange, set up in 1885[5].

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
I'm not sure I even know what you are saying anymore.

We can try again ?

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
"Wall St." is really not about the OTC environment, remember that is not regulated.

Wall St. is up to it's gills in the unregulated OTC market.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
On one hand you are saying wall st dabbles in OTC D.

True

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
The next you say gold is no part of that because it is on a regulated exchange.

OTC = unregulated market

Futures exchange = regulated market

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
I think you like to think you are quite witty and above most people when in reality you like to be the instigator and bathe in sarcasm.

Sounds like a personal problem GBM.

Take it to the chaplin ?

www.bloomberg.com...

Wall Street firms stand to benefit from staving off efforts for reform. One senior executive at a top-five derivatives firm, who declined to comment publicly, said that while he expects Congress will adopt some form of legislation, he thinks it will be a long time coming and that the degree of reform is in doubt. One key issue is how the government and regulators define the word “standardized,” which will determine what contracts need to be handled by clearinghouses and can be traded on exchanges. “The legislation would say that all standardized contracts need to be cleared, which begs the question what is standardized?” said Geoffrey Goldman, a partner who focuses on derivatives and structured products at law firm Shearman & Sterling in New York. “The bill doesn’t answer that question.”

www.xe.com...:45:00.0/980001.htm?c=1&t=100

Instead, the reform bill should require all derivatives to be traded on exchanges and to meet clearing requirements, unless the Commodity Futures Trading Commission grants a specific exception 'based on a public interest or necessity finding.'

www.hoanewsnetwork.com...

To help them screw their own clients, the major investment banks employ high-speed computer programs that can glimpse orders from investors before the deals are processed and then make trades on behalf of the banks at speeds of fractions of a second. None of them will admit it, but everybody knows what this computerized trading — known as "flash trading" — really is. "Flash trading is nothing more than computerized front-running," says the prominent hedge-fund manager. The SEC voted to ban flash trading in September, but five months later it has yet to issue a regulation to put a stop to the practice.

Where does the gold come from?

www.realitysandwich.com...

Grasberg gold and copper mine in West Papua is the largest open-cut mine in the world, a gaping hole visible from space. It lies where the sacred mountain of the Amungme tribe used to be. US mining corporation Freeport-McMoRan, having struck a deal in 1967 with Suharto (the Indonesian dictator infamous for massacres in East Timor), have already dumped roughly a billion tons of toxic mine waste into the mountains and surrounding rivers.

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 8-3-2010 by drew hempel]

The points that needs to be focused on, that is the heart of the matter is as follows;

The financial predators on Wall St encouraged the creation of sub prime loans.

They knew those loans were no good.

They bought them, packaged them in a complex way - and through fraud - gave them an AAA rating.

They sold the resulting packages at a premium, knowing they were time bombs.

When they found themselves exposed to the collateral damage, they extorted YOUR money to make themselves whole.


The entire process was aided and abetted by paid for politicians and regulators.

They stole, lied and defrauded - and it was the common people who suffer the consequences.

How can anyone tolerate the continuance of that system?

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by drew hempel

 

So what are you saying? You are against big business?

I am not sure what the point is you are trying to get at. Also not sure why you are demonizing banks that were forced to receive TARP monies even if they did not need them.

You should be more upset at your representatives. Seriously.

I'm not sure about Drew - but I am TOTALLY against big business - and the current brand of globalization, which simply amounts to illegal activity that has bought the laws required to be considered legal.

One of the fundamental problems that faces many in these issues is that of legality. People need to understand that laws are bought and paid for. How many laws have you been party to creating? How many times have you lobbied govt to change a law in your favor?

The law is an obstacle to justice - and it should be in the most part discarded. These things cannot expect to be resolved inside a system that is self supporting - you cannot defeat the problem by working within the current laws - they must be changed.

If there is a revolution I would hope they remove then entire current system of law. There needs to b only one law - do no harm, and cause no loss. Loss or harm then needs to be established, then it needs to be proved that someone inflicted it upon another - after that - the penalty needs to be decided. No millions of books - no millions of loopholes.


Monopolistic businesses are not efficient, neither are they desirable. They do not provide for the customer - they are able to simply crush anyone who might offer something better. Due to market share and premium discount rates they have unfair advantage.

Large corporations need to be broken down into VERY small parts.

A total change of taxation policy is a good method to achieve this - simply tax net assets and transactions, and don't tax productivity at all. Businesses would have to go small to escape increasing tax burdens - competition would thrive.

The main improvement would be loss of political power - so no single group, or single entity could control the governing bodies.

Yes GBM - some of us have enough brains to realize that the concentration of power is not in the interests of common men, large corporations represent the very largest of global power concentrations. Many have economies larger than most countries.

Wealth is power, and power corrupts. Corrupt use of this power results in further concentration of power and the siphoning of wealth away from those workers who produce it - to those who simply hoard it.