Raytheon Revisited

reply to post by rhunter


OK....gauntlet thrown.

What, exactly, was inaccurate in my information?

BTW, I was looking for FedEx fleet history, as they no longer operate the Boeing 727, but had no luck. Maybe on their home website.....

What I'm getting at is, Raytheon may have acquired the 727 as FedEx was shedding that equipment type. Or, it was a joint consultation, as FedEx (and UPS) are always keen to increase the ability to land in all weather conditions, since the very nature of their business depends on it so much.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT...ah, I see what I did. I write, unfortunately, as if I'm sitting here speaking with you.

Others may interpret that incorrectly, and that's my fault.

When I wrote it wasn't a 727, I was talking about the article that I posted, below. I already knew about the earlier test, just didn't know where, as I hadn't looked into it. Now, I know about Holliman. See how much you can learn if you collaborate?

[edit on 7 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by warpcrafter


I find this Raytheon tid bit well established and interesting. Any one who would argue with this guy needs a check up from the neck up.
Any thing typed here on ATS to debunk this has never even addressed what is not true ,about the entire article.
A craft like in the article could launch a missile and fly over.
It could be mistaken for the craft that hit the Twins as well.
The wing span fits the hole shown in photos better than a 757


Tom Flocco.com
tomflocco.com...


Witnesses link missile to small military jet parts found at Pentagon on 9/11
Date: Monday, May 23 @ 01:59:41 EDT
Topic: 9-11 Attacks

Missile & remote control systems added to small jets before 9-11; same parts found at Pentagon

Two civilian defense contractor employees--told to remain silent--say other workers quietly retro-fitted missile and remote control systems onto A-3 jets at Colorado public airport prior to September 11 when similar A-3 parts much smaller than a Boeing 757 were found at Pentagon

Presidential candidate says scores of retired and active military and intelligence officials would testify before current grand jury probing government involvement in 9/11 attacks

by Tom Flocco

Fort Collins, Colorado -- May 26, 2005 -- TomFlocco.com --
According to two civilian defense contractor employees working at commercial corporate facilities at Fort Collins-Loveland Municipal Airport (left), in the months before the September 11 attacks U.S. Air Force defense contractors brought in A-3 Sky Warrior aircraft under cover of darkness to be completely refitted and modified at the small civilian airport in Colorado.

The revelations are important evidence for a reportedly ongoing secret 9/11 probe because widely available Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) photographs taken during the attacks clearly show that the few aircraft parts found at the Pentagon belonged to a small jet very similar to a modified A-3 Sky Warrior--not the American Airlines Boeing 757.

It is not known whether all members of Congress are aware of the under-the-radar-screen grand jury proceedings, who has already testified, and whether the probe is purposefully being kept from public knowledge, according to government intelligence sources.
The two witnesses say that separate military contractor teams--working independently at different times--refitted Douglas A-3 Sky Warriors (above) with updated missiles, Raytheon's Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) remote control systems, fire control systems, engines, transponders, and radio-radar-navigation systems--a total makeover, seemingly for an operation more important than use as a simple missile testing platform for defense contractor Hughes-Raytheon.



The employees asked not to be identified for personal safety reasons and fear of job retaliation; but both told 2008 independent presidential candidate Karl Schwarz (left) "the Air Force brought in separate teams to do top-secret military work unrelated to commercial aviation at our airport, and we were told by our bosses not to discuss what we had seen with anyone."

The witnesses were quite fearful about several recent "suicides, car wrecks--mysterious deaths--directly related to the aviation experts" working on the systems that were installed on the A-3’s at Fort Collins-Loveland--having breached the government-blocked information flow at great personal risk, according to Schwarz--but providing more evidence for a New York 9/11 investigation.

Schwarz, a former Republican from Arkansas now living in Georgia and running as an independent to clean up government corruption and crime told TomFlocco.com that he met with the employees for about an hour in February to discuss the issue.

The witnesses told Schwarz that each jet was placed in a hanger just big enough for a work crew and one A-3 Sky Warrior; and "we were under strict orders not to discuss what the military teams were doing or what we saw."

The presidential candidate told us "there are about 150 retired and active U.S. military and federal intelligence officers who will come forward and testify regarding government involvement in the September 11 attacks--but only if there is a serious criminal grand jury."

Small plane evidence moved at Pentagon

The approximate 16-foot entry hole at the outside facade of the Pentagon on 9/11 has been the subject of countless questions by those who say the hole was caused by an air-to-ground missile (AGM) fired from a small military jet rather than an impact from a Boeing 757.

reply to post by andy1972


Yeah, that's all fine and all, except for one minor detail. (Well, two actually).

WAAS wasn't implemented (not sure if it is yet, will check) and, deux Neither American Airlines nor United Airlines were equipping any of their airplanes with GPS in 2001. (MY airline didn't have it then either).

Even today, it is still not on EVERY passenger airliner! (Will likely never be seen on any of American's MD-80s, for example...just too old, the airplanes are, very difficult and expensive to retro-fit).

Here's an article:

www.usatoday.com...

As to WAAS, this should be the most current info, from Wiki:
en.wikipedia.org...

It will be quite some time before it's approved for use, per FAA, by the airlines. FAA takes a long time to approve this type of new technology, even if it's just augmenting existing tech. Lots and lots of testing and proving runs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ETA: And, just like clockwork, the ole' "Tom Flocco" baloney pops up again!!! LOL!!

Too, too funny, that one is!



[edit on 7 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by rhunter


Beware the old shell game. Is the missle under cup FED X, UPS or Raytheon? Cause this game is fixed. Carnyism at it's best.

The newspaper ELPAIS..30% of flight 11 was linked directly to aeronautical firms or linked to the defense establishment...like John D Yamnicky, retired military test pilot who worked for the VERIDIAN CORP. He was also CIA from a long time ago.

Heres a link to a Spanish national newspaper.SPANISH NEWSPAPER LINK

William Caswell..navy scientist with top secret security clearance. Even his family didnt know what he did.

Wilson Flagg - retired admiral and American Airlines pilot. One of the 3 admirals accused in 1991 by the navy of sexual violence. Had his own office in the pentagon.

Bryan Jack - 48, computer programmer and first line budget analist for the D.O.D. Worked in the pentagon as head of the fiscal economic dept.

Chandler Keller - Eminent engineer specialised in propulsion systems and head of Boeing Satelite Systems.

Dong Lee - engineer at Boeing.

Ruben Ornedo - engineer at Boeing at El Segundo.CA.

Robert.R.Ploger III - computer specialist. Lockhead.

Robert Penninger - Electric engineer at BAE for the D.O.D

John Sammartino - Head engineer at XONTECH.INC. A company linked specifically to the military, specialised in defensive missiles and sensors Later XonTch was bought by Northrop Grunman.

Leonard Taylor - XonTech. Chief Engineer.

Vicki Yancey - Ex Electronic naval technician for Vrendeberg. Linked to the D.O.D.

Charles f Burlingame III - Pilot of flight 11 and ex naval officer who worked at the pentagon.

Barbara K Olson - wife of the fiscal General, named by George Bush.
Her Husband said in he received a call from her ,in his office, on her cell phone telling him the plane had be hijacked, when it was impossible to use a cell phone on a plane.
This story was later changed to "she used the phone on the plane", however no record of said conversation was taped, unlike the rest.






[edit on 7-3-2010 by andy1972]

[edit on 8-3-2010 by andy1972]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

WAAS wasn't implemented (not sure if it is yet, will check) and, deux Neither American Airlines nor United Airlines were equipping any of their airplanes with GPS in 2001. (MY airline didn't have it then either)

Ever seen the photos of the funny pod like apendages on the underbelly of the flights that just shouldnt be there??

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Tom Flocco.com
tomflocco.com...

Problem is the engines found in the Pentagon do not match a A3, the wheels found in the Pentagon do not match a A3, the undercarriage found in the Pentagon does not match a A3, the hole in the Pentagon is NOT 16 foot, the external damage done to the Pentagon matches a 757, how do you account for the DNA from the passengers and crew being found inside the Pentagon?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Funny how another "truther" published the same garbage from Tom Flocco, then changed his post when the lies and bull# there were pointed out to him

Originally posted by andy1972
Ever seen the photos of the funny pod like apendages on the underbelly of the flights that just shouldnt be there??

Oh no, a pod person - funny how some "truthers" claim people who push that the aircraft were carrying pods are just disinfo agents, trying to make the "truther" movement look very silly!

reply to post by dereks


Can anyone explain to me how a 757 boeing, with a nose made of an mixture of aluminium and carbon fibre penetrated 15CMS OF KEVLAR, then 20CMS of SOLID BRICK and to finish pushed its way through 25CMS of REINFORCED CONCRETE to finish its trajectory penetrating and passing through the third ring of the pentagon...

The nose is the weakest part of the plane..so what passed through all the above to leave a neat 6 foot hole the other side??

[edit on 7-3-2010 by andy1972]

reply to post by andy1972


Of course it didn't go all the way through completely intact.

That is the point here.

Unfortunately, that is an 'urban legend' meme that pops on the Web all the time.

Your average person just can't comprehend the dynamics of such a huge energy-laden event.

Look around, plenty of illustrations and video simulations available that explain it.

reply to post by weedwhacker


A study of the "black box data" recently by Pilots for Truth revealed that in no moment had the door tp the cabin been opened...PILOTS FOR 911 TRUTH

So how the hell did an arab get control of the plane??

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by andy1972

 

Of course it didn't go all the way through completely intact.

Well if it didnt go through intact what made the near perfectly round exit hole in the third ring..
Maybe Boeing have changed aluminiun for depleted uranium, well, just on this flight.

Originally posted by andy1972
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

A study of the "black box data" recently by Pilots for Truth revealed that in no moment had the door tp the cabin been opened...

If you had bothered to do some research you would have found out that the door had not been opened on any previous flight that the black box had in its records - the door sensor was not connected.... That is why your research should be more than visiting conspiracy theory sites!

[edit on 7/3/10 by dereks]

reply to post by andy1972


"andy1972", you've been an ATS member for quite some time, now. Did you take a hiatus? (I saw you mentioned your kids, that's a good reason, sounds fun).

The discussion over that particular bit of fluff (their latest pie in the face...or did they step on a rake? Take your pick) has been hashed over, and done to death.

Is it STILL up on their website?!?!?! If so, that just adds yet another nail into their coffin of crediblity.


Nutshell: The 'fearless leader' over there at "P4T" saw what he thought was the 'smoking gun', the end-all and be-all to grant him immortality (or something). He blew it!

Upon firther (and ad infintum) examination, it was shown beyond any doubt that the FDR installed on the airframe that was operating as American Airlines flight 77 on 11 September, 2001, did not have a connection that enabled it to detect the cockpit door open/closed status.

It wasn't hooked up.

Did not need to be. Was not required to be.

The channel IN the FDR was there, as an option for certain operators to choose it, if they so wished. American did not use it.

It really is that simple.

'P4T' still postsit???

Shame on them. There is only one word for that.

(Or really, it's this symbol --- $$$$$$$$$$$$$)

reply to post by dereks


Yes i am a pod person...and why not.
POD PHOTOS

They are there, nothing to do with shadows, no extra fuel tanks.

Originally posted by andy1972
Maybe Boeing have changed aluminiun for depleted uranium, well, just on this flight.

Older aircraft (like the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Boeing 747, and Lockheed C-130) did use DU counterweights. I believe that the newer aircraft (like B757, B767, B777, and B787) will have tungsten counterweights instead (likely due to Boeing's corporate lawyers wanting to just avoid the radiation issues, but that's just my opinion though).

www.wise-uranium.org...

www.airliners.net...

reply to post by andy1972


Ooops! I was going for 'Reply to', and starred you by mistake!!! LOL!

You owe me a beer....

Where was I? Oh, yeah.

I hope you were joking about the DU, there.

AS TO the exit holes (there were more than just the one, you know) the short answer is that the mass of the airplane was altered, as it progressed through the building, resultingin a very hot, very concentrated effect...got progressively smaller, too, as it went.

Physics. Energy. Momentum. Velocity.


Maybe thisis the wrong thread, but it was so cool, had to share:

Saw a "Mythbusters" last night.

(This is going to address the fact that sometimes papers and credit cards and YES, even passports (!) can be ejected from a "fireball" relatively unscathed)

Mythbusters were testing whether popcorn kernels could be 'popped' via an explosion.

They mounted a chunk of C-4 on top of a water heater, then an aluminum foil package of kernels, about the size of two fists.

They blew it, BIG honking fireball....and, yes you guessed it.

NONE of the kernels popped (of course, I could have expected that) and they just fell back down, all around....looking good as new.

I hope they put that segment up soon.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
'P4T' still postsit???

Shame on them. There is only one word for that.

(Or really, it's this symbol --- $$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Yes, they still post it. As to your $$$$$$ remark, they are not doing to well there, on the page linked above they have this

For the first quater 2010 ending Mar 19 they want to raise $3,800, so far they have 2 contributions totally $75....

reply to post by andy1972


(sigh)

They are not pods. Umpteenth time, here.

Have you EVER gone to see '911myths.com"????

Do I have to go hunt photos? NO?? OK, I will......BRB.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In this photo, look at the bulges, beneath the wings, where they meet the fuselage. Those are the landing gear wheel well fairings.




Here's a good one. Caught JUST as the gear retract sequence is beginning. First step, the main gear doors open. THEN the retraction begins...you can see the Mains have just broken free of the down locks.

Picture for perspective and clarification:



Finally, this may illustrate best:



Sorry, just one more, mmmmmmmmkay??? Too cool not to share:




[edit on 8 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by andy1972
reply to post by dereks

 

Yes i am a pod person...and why not.
POD PHOTOS

They are there, nothing to do with shadows, no extra fuel tanks.

"Pod people" is one of the debunkers' favorite strawmen (as evidenced already by several posts right here on this thread ).

The B757 and B767 have a substantial wing root fairing- they have some tremendous landing gear to accommodate after all. Most transport aircraft also have multiple maintenance (and cargo, etc.) access panels along the underside of the fuselage. Those are also some pretty terrible quality photos that most people have looked at in the 9/11 context, so there could be all kinds of photographic artifacts.

Military combat aircraft have their weapons (and other) systems mounted on "hardpoints" or rails, but the USAF does use electronics, jamming (and other) pods.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.aircraftresourcecenter.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil...

www.fas.org...

A word to the (not-so-wise IMHO) debunkers- there are MANY aircraft that can and do have "pods", but they aren't necessarily commercial Boeing transports.

Semantical games are often the refuge of a weak argument...