The conclusion of Occultism and Satanism is the same thing. Part 4

reply to post by woodwytch


Why are you so certain that it is Christianity that has it right ... what if all the things you have said about 'we' of other faiths, is actually what has happened to the Christians on our planet ... and it is you who have been deceived not us ... what then (oops) !

Woody

(edit to add) One other thing I noticed is that you do use the words 'I' 'Me' 'My' rather a lot which tends to show a lot of personal ego ... something that seems to be the curse of Christianity as it throws a shadow over those Christians with a true and unselfish heart. IMHO

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I am certain because of faith and what has been revealed to me. I am aware that I was unable to offer you with the type of evidence that would satisfy you, I knew and stated in the first thread that I was unable to prove to the secular world in a way that the secular world would find acceptable. I thought once I connected some of the dots others could see it too.

If believeing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is wrong and not believeing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is right then I have lost nothing but if believing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is right then those who believe not have lost their soul.

May I ask you to please give me a specific example of something that you would like me to show you evidence of? Maybe if I knew what it was you were looking for exactly I could do that.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by YoungBlood

 

LOL, I am sorry to laugh but ofcourse I am aware that Christianity derived from Judaism, I think I was aware of that before I read any of the Dead Sea Scrolls or Lost Sea Scrolls which ever you prefer to call them.

Melissa what language are the Dead Sea Scrolls written in ... and can you translate said script yourself or do you rely on translations ... and when you say '... before I read any of the Dead Sea Scrolls' do you mean you have read the actual scroll fragments ... or have you simply read a book about them (there is a big difference) ... this is making me wonder if reading a few books is the sum total of the 'extensive' research you have mentioned on several occasions thoughout your threads ?

Woody.

She hasn't read them, I highly doubt she has read her own bible. If she did, she would have surely noticed the Goddess, and the other Gods in there. Search in vain for orthodoxy in the 1st or 2nd centuries. "Apostolic teaching" is a fantasy invented by the Church. The "early Fathers" were bitter rivals, protagonists in a struggle between fiercely competitive groups and schools of thought. In their first two centuries, the followers of Christ had no particular images of their God. Emerging as they did from Judaism they disdained "idol worship." They were even accused of being atheists. But once the break with Judaism was complete, the Christ worshippers rapidly made up the deficiency by adapting for Christian use: pagan images, rituals, sacred sites, and symbols. So, today, in every Church, and every Christian home, there is an Idol before their God. Jesus on the Cross, in case you were asleep here. And what about the strange ritual in which the Christians eat their God and drink his blood? Communion? Egyptian in nature? Why yes, it is!

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by woodwytch

 

Why are you so certain that it is Christianity that has it right ... what if all the things you have said about 'we' of other faiths, is actually what has happened to the Christians on our planet ... and it is you who have been deceived not us ... what then (oops) !

Woody

(edit to add) One other thing I noticed is that you do use the words 'I' 'Me' 'My' rather a lot which tends to show a lot of personal ego ... something that seems to be the curse of Christianity as it throws a shadow over those Christians with a true and unselfish heart. IMHO

*************************************************************

I am certain because of faith and what has been revealed to me. I am aware that I was unable to offer you with the type of evidence that would satisfy you, I knew and stated in the first thread that I was unable to prove to the secular world in a way that the secular world would find acceptable. I thought once I connected some of the dots others could see it too.

If believeing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is wrong and not believeing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is right then I have lost nothing but if believing in Christ/God/Bible and practicing what we are told is right then those who believe not have lost their soul.

May I ask you to please give me a specific example of something that you would like me to show you evidence of? Maybe if I knew what it was you were looking for exactly I could do that.

Hey there me again ... I must have been writing my last reply when you posted this and I missed it.

Ok, see this is the point I'm making ... we all (or at least most of the posters on your threads) have 'faith' in our personal beliefs ... and I am not saying that your choice to be a Christian is wrong ... not in the slightest ... you choose what feels right to you and where you feel the connection to the God-source.

But by the same token you have to be open-minded enough to accept that your way doesn't suit everyone ... we must all find our own way to the God-source whatever name we call it by. And please understand that it is offensive to call down someone elses beliefs and their chosen faith.

>>> As for what proof you can give me

reply to post by woodwytch



Well I really hope that you have learnt something by this study in close-minded rhetoric. The end result was set probably before the title was set. These people do not have the ability to stand outside of them and try to be objective. In the first part of the OP I took a look at all the ignored posts and could see the pattern. Over 30 years of investigation training and ritual has meant that I am beginning to understand concepts on human and non human psychology aslo the nature of enlightenment. Our biggest problem is one of our own consciousness.

Can I honestly place any credence on a Xtian that spends a whole week exploring a false premise and /or a rhetorical question. We in our liberalism got taken because we anticipated rigour, questioning and maybe even learning something. Of course this was a tall order but what did we get?? Please don't believe the unkind words I would use but go back and reread the entire thread.

Sadly I have seen Jehova Witnesses that could have done a better job discussing their take on the bible. Their books cover many of the pagan deities also which makes sense as it is a complete and instant lifestyle that is offered a bit like Xtianity. Anyway I called this thread for what it was way back on the first episode.


Still chalk it up to experience. The secret is not what they say but what they ignore…

Peace

I sorted it out ffrom my Birthright, and BE Damned if anyone tell's me it's another's opt...

Serious, cause it don't matter who takes you from this world, we're all just making it up as we sink aloong...

Originally posted by Melissa101

I have read many articles, case studies, watched interviews of folks currently or formaly involves with different forms of Occult beliefs and I have also read; Complete Book of Witchcraft by Ray Buckland, Devils Demons and Spiritual Warfare, Spiral Dance, Book of Shadows, Top Secret Majic, Hostage to the Devil (The Possession and Exorcism of Five Contemporary Americans), The Church and the Empire, Satanic Bible, Tankhem & The Bull of Ombos, Egytian Magic to name a few.

As far as your second question:

Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The difficulty in debating this subject is that you only quote the bible and not these other texts you have read.

Citing the bible is not sufficient evidence for your argument, and it makes you seem like a bible thumper. If that is true then the title of your post is misleading.

What facts have logically led you to believe that Satanism and the Occult are the same?

Also. . . Is there anything besides faith and the bible that has led you to conclude that those of other faiths have got it all wrong?

I am genuinely interested

-YB

Edit to fix quote

[edit on 7-3-2010 by YoungBlood]

reply to post by Tiger5


I hear what your saying but at the end of the day it is each to their own ... I leave door-tapping and conversion to those of some other faiths.

Just get's frustrating when people's view is so narrow they cannot comprehend let alone accept diversity ... hah ho !

Woody

Originally posted by Melissa101

I believe Satan/Lucifer is the ruler of our world and he is the ultimate master manipulator, in that he has deceived the masses through various means including but not limited to; Wicca, Scientology, Greek Mythology, Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism and many other false Christian religions, Egyptian Polytheism, Witchcraft and Voodoo. Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Melissa101, you've quoted this a couple of times now, both times in reference to how the Bible is the only way to God. You do know that the word mammon means "material wealth or greed, most often personified as a deity", right? What do other belief structures and religions, such as Greek Mythology, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., have to do with material wealth or greed? You're not making a lot of sense here. The quote is in reference to materialism verses spiritualism and has nothing to do with other beliefs.

A wise teacher once said "Let the pagan worship the stone, for without the Lord there would be no stone".

Another wise teacher once said "Judge not lest ye be judged".






[edit on 7-3-2010 by Neo__]

Originally posted by woodwytch

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by YoungBlood

 

LOL, I am sorry to laugh but ofcourse I am aware that Christianity derived from Judaism, I think I was aware of that before I read any of the Dead Sea Scrolls or Lost Sea Scrolls which ever you prefer to call them.

Melissa what language are the Dead Sea Scrolls written in ... and can you translate said script yourself or do you rely on translations ... and when you say '... before I read any of the Dead Sea Scrolls' do you mean you have read the actual scroll fragments ... or have you simply read a book about them (there is a big difference) ... this is making me wonder if reading a few books is the sum total of the 'extensive' research you have mentioned on several occasions thoughout your threads ?

Woody.

Mostly in Hebrew, but some in Greek and Aramaic. I hqave not had the pleasure of reading the original the actual scroll fragments and I would not be able read them if I were able to see them in person. I have read the translations (in English).

Originally posted by YoungBlood

Originally posted by Melissa101

I have read many articles, case studies, watched interviews of folks currently or formaly involves with different forms of Occult beliefs and I have also read; Complete Book of Witchcraft by Ray Buckland, Devils Demons and Spiritual Warfare, Spiral Dance, Book of Shadows, Top Secret Majic, Hostage to the Devil (The Possession and Exorcism of Five Contemporary Americans), The Church and the Empire, Satanic Bible, Tankhem & The Bull of Ombos, Egytian Magic to name a few.

As far as your second question:

Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The difficulty in debating this subject is that you only quote the bible and not these other texts you have read.

Citing the bible is not sufficient evidence for your argument, and it makes you seem like a bible thumper. If that is true then the title of your post is misleading.

What facts have logically led you to believe that Satanism and the Occult are the same?

Also. . . Is there anything besides faith and the bible that has led you to conclude that those of other faiths have got it all wrong?

I am genuinely interested

-YB

Edit to fix quote

[edit on 7-3-2010 by YoungBlood]

With the combination of what I have learned through studying the Bible and what it states is wrong and Satanic and after studing Occultism and Satanism I believe that they all follow the same patterns, they use the same symbols and rituals they have been re named and tweeked some here and there but they are esentualy the same thing. For example Catholosim, look at the symbols used, look at the statues they have erected, Look at the graven images. I am able to discern this because I am told by Jesus to look at the fruits, evil bears evil even if it looks good, it is its nature to bear evil, thus when observing different beliefs look at the product look at what is represented. Look at Alien abduction, Have you seen the movie The Fourth Kind? In the movie people are involved in a case study on sleep, their disturbances are classic examples of violent possesion. The owl or alien described in the case studies is a very ancient demon entity (well all demon entities are ancient) first depictated as an owl in Canaan by the Babylonians they called this entity Baal or Molech. This owl is still worshipped today in the Ulluminati and by high ranking government officials at Bohemeian Grove. These are just two examples.

reply to post by woodwytch


Is there anything besides faith and the bible that has led you to conclude that those of other faiths have got it all wrong?

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Sorry I forgot this question:

Again I have the Bible and faith. Because we are living in an age of Revelation were things are being revealed and opened up to us I also see things like proof of the Ark, covered here on ATS by DarkspARCS at
www.abovetopsecret.com... or the discovery of artifacts of Giants members.toast.net... are two examples of scientific evidence that supports what is in the Bible is true.

Wouldn't mind if you gave a response to my previous post. I'm curious to see what you think.

reply to post by Melissa101


Findings that show the history of these people was a real thing and not a myth does not make all of the stories absolute...for the idea that all the things written about God are true can not be proven as a fact.

The OT stories are very similar to many cultures stories. Im not saying that it could not be like what you are suggesting...but Im not so fast to then things like finding the Ark proves the god image in the OT was a true image of God.

There defiantly is curious stories giants and I dont shrug them off as nothing either. I do think there are alot of pics on the internet that are proven to be of contests and not real...but there are some that I find indisputable but with no more evidence of the bone to be found..just a pic.

I find the story in the OT about after the flood, the giants still lived in the lands. There is a text not in the OT about how one of the giants was allowed by God to hang on to the ship (crazy right?) At first I lol about a giant hanging onto the boat for all that time...but then I stop laughing at the idea that the whole reason for the flood was to rid the earth of those that God regretted but yet....after the flood, the giants were still in the land.

Just rambling

Originally posted by Melissa101


[I]What facts have logically led you to believe that Satanism and the Occult are the same?[/I]


With the combination of what I have learned through studying the Bible and what it states is wrong and Satanic and after studing Occultism and Satanism I believe that they all follow the same patterns, they use the same symbols and rituals they have been re named and tweeked some here and there but they are esentualy the same thing. For example Catholosim, look at the symbols used, look at the statues they have erected, Look at the graven images. I am able to discern this because I am told by Jesus to look at the fruits, evil bears evil even if it looks good, it is its nature to bear evil, thus when observing different beliefs look at the product look at what is represented. Look at Alien abduction, Have you seen the movie The Fourth Kind? In the movie people are involved in a case study on sleep, their disturbances are classic examples of violent possesion. The owl or alien described in the case studies is a very ancient demon entity (well all demon entities are ancient) first depictated as an owl in Canaan by the Babylonians they called this entity Baal or Molech. This owl is still worshipped today in the Ulluminati and by high ranking government officials at Bohemeian Grove. These are just two examples.

It is absolutely impossible for you to look at any other religion objectively because you are getting so much of your info from the Bible.

The conclusion you have come to is biased.

I would like to suggest that you read Cunningham's [U]Earth Power[/U]. It's pretty short and it is a good representation of "Natural Magic."

Everything has a negative and a positive aspect. You are making quite a leap with your Owl example. If that were true then all institutions of learning would also be evil because the owl is a symbol for education. Your argument isn't logical

You mention symbols that catholics have erected but don't name any or follow with information about them. No examples.

The distinction I would like to make for you is that Occult is an umbrella term. Information taught in most traditions can be used to bring about good or evil. It is the choice of the individual in how they manipulate the information they are given. ie for good or bad

Originally posted by Melissa101

Is there anything besides faith and the bible that has led you to conclude that those of other faiths have got it all wrong?

)))))))((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))((((()
Sorry I forgot this question:

Again I have the Bible and faith. Because we are living in an age of Revelation were things are being revealed and opened up to us I also see things like proof of the Ark, covered here on ATS by DarkspARCS at
www.abovetopsecret.com... or the discovery of artifacts of Giants members.toast.net... are two examples of scientific evidence that supports what is in the Bible is true.

I am a pagan and I do not deny that Jesus exists or that the Ark is real. I believe in pantheons and I believe in The Creator.

I believe you are following the right path but I resent the fact that you will not recognize that everyone's path is not the same as yours.

I also resent the fact that you will not recognize that it is possible for you to be wrong about some things just as it is possible for everyone else to be wrong, and therefore allow yourself to participate in a logical unbiased debate.

-YB

Melissa, you have managed to avoid all the difficult questions in all of your 4 topics. All you have done so far is using statements from your bible.
You seem to be very keen on ignoring the tough questions. You also haven't answered my question yet: why did you really start all this?

Originally posted by DarknessFollows
Melissa, you have managed to avoid all the difficult questions in all of your 4 topics. All you have done so far is using statements from your bible.
You seem to be very keen on ignoring the tough questions. You also haven't answered my question yet: why did you really start all this?

why did you really start all this?

I started this because it was requested of me, I had been thinking of doing a thread proir to being asked. I suppose since it took me a long time to connect the dots I wanted to share my findings. What difficult questions have I avioded; can you give me an example?

Originally posted by YoungBlood

Originally posted by Melissa101

Is there anything besides faith and the bible that has led you to conclude that those of other faiths have got it all wrong?

)))))))((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))((((()
Sorry I forgot this question:

Again I have the Bible and faith. Because we are living in an age of Revelation were things are being revealed and opened up to us I also see things like proof of the Ark, covered here on ATS by DarkspARCS at
www.abovetopsecret.com... or the discovery of artifacts of Giants members.toast.net... are two examples of scientific evidence that supports what is in the Bible is true.

I am a pagan and I do not deny that Jesus exists or that the Ark is real. I believe in pantheons and I believe in The Creator.

I believe you are following the right path but I resent the fact that you will not recognize that everyone's path is not the same as yours.

I also resent the fact that you will not recognize that it is possible for you to be wrong about some things just as it is possible for everyone else to be wrong, and therefore allow yourself to participate in a logical unbiased debate.

-YB

It is possible that I am wrong about some things. I do not pretend to have all the answers or know everything. I have the same information that is available to all of us. I happen to believe what is written in the Bible is the living word of God and if the Bible says so it is so. Because I believe what the Bible says I believe that Jesus is the only way to God (Heaven) John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I stand firm in my beliefs. I do not judge others for their beliefs because I do not agree with them, however I stand in severe judgment for mine. I tend to be called a little of everything yet I have not been rude to anyone. The oppinions of me by others does not bother me, it is expected, it is tipical and I do not take them personly, I just want to make the point that I am not casting stones but I am being stoned. Stating my beliefs and standing firm in them is not an attempt to judge others. If standing firm in my beliefs is seen as biased I do not appologixw for that, it is not me that offends others but the teachings of the Bible.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


It is interesting that Giants seemed to live after the flood, one of my theories though I have not been able to find aything to back it up is that the wives of Noah's son's (Shem, Ham, and Japheth) could have possibly not been pure in their generations and the genes were passed on. I have not gotten to researching this in depth but I believe there is a significant link here and I would like to search furthur for more information on the subject. I had not heard of the theory of a giant holding on to the Ark, that is interesting too. If you come up with anyhting else I would appreciate hearing it. Good point, and I fine example of one of the many why's or how's we do not have the answers to.