thoughts from a female

Originally posted by Aero
Is it just me or have we had a rash of posts id like to say were "trollish" at best. It seems that in the past week posts about "Masons give me the willys" have gone up dramatically. Why is it that all of a sudden these people are posting how masons "give them the chills".

Aero, good point. May I suggest that the reason there are more anti-Mason trolls is that there are more Masons presenting a true picture of Masonry? And, doing a fine job of discrediting the Mason-bashers.

Originally posted by frozen_snowman
There is a difference to restrict a female from Anicent Wisdom or anything that would support their soul journey.
Masons you can say what you want but it is *not equal* and I would understand why many females have a oppsition.

If I get what you are saying, you think Masons hold the key to all ancient wisdom. I think many will differ with you on that. Masonry does not have exclusive control over ancient wisdom. Any woman wishing this knowledge will find a way to it, IMO.

Personally, I don't really want women to be equal to men. We are different. And, truth be known we are probably superior to men because women can be more in tune with nature. Don't go flaming me here. Think about it, why would men so go out of their way to subjugate woemn unless they KNEW women were superior to men? The Catholic Church didn't even acknowledge a woman's soul until the fifteen century.
__________
ELY, when are you going to get specific? All these generalizations aren't helping your cause a bit.
You say you're keeping an open mind. I tend to doubt that.



[Edited on 1-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

You know, I personally think that it would be entirely fair of the Masons on this board to award DTOM the honourary (and, of course, completely unofficial) title of "Sister." Her interest, knowledge, and fair-mindedness have marked her out, for me, as a perfect member of the Masonic family, even if she is not currently able to join the Star. Who is with me?

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Any woman wishing this knowledge will find a way to it, IMO.

Here here!!

And I'm sure there are plenty of Masons that would be happy to help woman wishing to expand her knowledge, alla Eastern Star.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Think about it, why would men so go out of their way to subjugate woemn unless they KNEW women were superior to men?

They didn't have to know, they could have just feared women were superior, or even equal, which of course would cause major problems for men that NEED to be superior .

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
ELY, when are you going to get specific? All these generalizations aren't helping your cause a bit.
You say you're keeping an open mind. I tend to doubt that.

*crickets*

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Think about it, why would men so go out of their way to subjugate woemn unless they KNEW women were superior to men?

In his Thus Spake Zarathustra, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote �O Man, when thou goest in unto Woman, forget not thy whip!�
This prompted the 20th century American philosopher Bertrand Russell to remark that this was precisely the reason Nietzsche never had a woman....he knew she�d take the whip away from him!

Ah, but Nietszche did have many women, all of whom he paid for, and also a fine case of syphilis. In fact, perhaps the syphilis-dementia was responsible for the whip remark, or so many of his other remarks?

Alex and Dark, you are both too kind.

But, in regards to women being "superior" to men, I feel that most women are right-brained, which is the sensitive side, correct? Women would have been the healers and nurturers. Women would have had inner power.
So, centuries ago, when we all had much more of what is now considered "hidden knowledge", women would have been capable of more of this knowledge. It would have been a reason women were denied education and many other things allowed to men.

These are ideas I have, from many things I have read and I can provide no sources. And, I could be wrong.

Originally posted by DarktalonAlso, this is a statement of an open minded, truth seeker, with their "eyes wide open"?

Good work, you have caught a troll. Burn her!

Originally posted by Leveller
I don't know much about the freemason brotherhood, besides what i have read about or heard from Masons themselves. I don't think that i should be pelted with stones because i have an opinion on a subject. I specifically said that it was my opinion and doesn't necesarily being true, hoping for the day i will think or know different, which i am looking forward to. And maybe being this way makes me trollish then i'm really not sorry.

Originally posted by SiRiNO

Originally posted by DarktalonAlso, this is a statement of an open minded, truth seeker, with their "eyes wide open"?

Good work, you have caught a troll. Burn her!

Probably would be good to include the quote I was talking about.

Ely, Leveller said that? I think you might have messed up on the quote key. Those are not posts of someone trying to find something out. Those are posts that are stating a firm and aggressive mindset towards Freemasonry. If your going to troll, atleast do it good.

[Edited on 4-6-2004 by Darktalon]

The Oldest Mystery religions and cults ( if you will) are Feminine. These date back tens of thousands of years, far into our past. Women ran them, and passed on the secrets of Nature to their daughters and sisters. There are almost no statues of man that dates back 25,000 years. But, you will find statue upon statue of the Great Goddess. She is in fact, the oldest megalithic statue ever found.
In Malta, the oldest church (temple) exists. It is in the shape of a womans body, in 3D. You enter this temple by going between her legs down into the solid carved rock. It is roughly 8000 years old.
In the sumerian culture, women ran many of the businesses, including the taverns. Beer, was invented by the Sumerian Midwives.
The MIdwives guild, was the strongest Union in Europe until the witch Burnings. In france, the highest taxes paid were by the MIdwives guild, exceeeding most others combined. Most of the Hospitals in Europe were non profit, and run by the Midwives Guild, until the Witch Burnings. The witch hunts started around 1000 AD, and lasted until the end of the dark ages, around the 1600's. nobody really knows how many women, children, and men were Killed...the low is in the half million, the high is in the 5-6 million range. Medical knowledge, passed down through ten thousand years, was lost with them. After Europe rid itself of the midwives guild, the medical industry remained for profit.
The bible, and the people behind its structure, has desperately tried to obliterate the source for its wisdom (sophia) and knowledge, and spiritual countenance. God is Female as much as Male, the ancient hebrew clearly translates the Holy spirit as female on many occasions, as do many biblical verses.
It is no coincidance that the words for Wisdom (sophia) in every ancient language, is in feminine form. The cults and Mystery religions that passed that wisdom and knowledge down were feminine to begin with.
If you truly wish to gain wisdom, knowledge, and secrets of Nature that rule the Universe, learn the truth about your female ancestors. This is the oldest powerfull group in History, find your sisters.
Good Journey.

At last someone with real knowledge who is also willing to back the Feminine aspect of ancient cults.
I would probably be a Mason today were it not for a few things that I am just not comfortable with. Equality on all levels is the main one.
For an organisation so clearly based around the search for knowledge and harmony both within their lodges and their hearts, the exclusion of women, regardless of tradition, just sends the wrong signals. Although probably not the case it smacks of the old....to remain dominant we must surpress that which came before, lest it returns to beat us...
Shame, so much potential.

[edit on 7-6-2004 by Smudge]

You shouldn't be so discouraged by external apperances. After all Freemasonry only requires that you believe in a diety, we dont assign a gender to it, and Masonry doesn't profess that men are superior to women.

Well, Freemasonry of course is for men only. But, I do not really see a problem with that. There are a great deal of wonderful organizations for women only as well. I do not look down on them. I feel men need women and women need men. Yin Yang. Men and Women are both needed to keep the harmony of life in balance. But, sometimes men need their own things, just as women need their own things as well. We need a balance in life. Freemasonry in no way holds women as being lower or not equal to men. This is just a fraternal organization.

Yeah I know that this is undoubtedly the truth, it just makes me feel as though there is some kind of denial of the feminine aspect of us all. To me the most sense I can find in spiritual terms is the union of both male and female to make a whole. Without going mad those of you who look into these things will get my gist, I'm not talking about orgies and such, merely the admission that as half the package men are redundant. Therefore I cannot imagine a group looking for answers that excludes women in both its meetings and its doctrine. But you are right Khonshu maybe I need to dip my toe first before I can say what it is and what it is not.
For the time being I'll continue to do my own thing.

Originally posted by Smudge
At last someone with real knowledge who is also willing to back the Feminine aspect of ancient cults.
I would probably be a Mason today were it not for a few things that I am just not comfortable with. Equality on all levels is the main one.

So, because Masons don't admit women), you won't join? To deny yourself the knowledge and experience of Masonry for this reason seems a little harsh. Would it not be better to join and try to change the system from within?
It sounds to me like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

On another note, there are always Mystery Schools you can join to learn this knowledge. Masonic Light posted on three of these, but I cannot find the post. One I know he spoke of is The Builders of the Adytum.

Ok, if one became a Master Mason, they could join the Eastern Star. The Easter Star does allow women. There is also Co-Masonry that admits women. Co-Masonry may be a good fit for someone that likes the ideals of masony, but would like women involved.

But, Masonry does not exclude women at all out of the religous side. The religous side is personal to each person. Masons are just a fraternity. I too believe that you must have women to co exist as I mentioned before. I know that my wife would prefer me go and hang out and meet with guys more than women. That is another factor as well. Being segrgated can help one focus more. Now, not meaning segregated in all teaching, but surely for the lowly few hours once a month, it can be good.

If you would prefer to attend a lodge with women, I would recommend looking at one of those that I mentioned above.

The point i was trying to make is that if you were to learn everything the masons could teach you, went up through the "ranks" to learn the Truths held dear, you would learn what most Women already know. There is an Innate knowledge carrried in our genes/DNA, whatever you wish to call it. It is how Nature operates.

The snake that introduced Eve to Knowledge in the garden of Eden...the snake is a symbol of Medicine (the AMA still uses two snakes opposing each other as a seal) and Wisdom. It is Symbol(s) for greater events.
I could post pages regarding the symbolism and analogies displayed in the story of adam and eve and the snake...it is a story of betrayel, loss of innocence, jealousy, etc. It is the starting point(spiritual permission?) for the oppression and outright rage against women through history, by people that have absolutely no idea what it means.
FreeMasons are fine for fellowship, bowling nights, childrens benifits, etc. If you seek the Truth in the Universe.....go to a country that has ancient history..like Mexico, or China, Africa....find and make freinds with the grandmother of the community. She will teach you far more than any other avenue in life.

Toolmaker,
while that may be true of our ancestors, I truly believe that most of this knowledge has been successfully suppressed. I'm sure this is part of the reason women have been subjugated throughout the ages.

Ages ago, women were indeed as you described, I believe.
Today, women may be more inclined to retrieve this knowledge, if they are interested. It would take much more that talking to the village crones to revive what has been taken from us over the centuries.

I hate to sound like an utter ass (and yet I do it all the time!), but I find I must disagree with this notion that women are somehow innately or genetically superior when it comes to understanding philosophical or spiritual truth than men. This just seems like so much sexist nonsense to me. I've met just as many ignorant women in my time as ignorant men (I can't say anything about their spirituality... I'm not God, after all).

I think that there are two huge dangers in seeking any kind of truth, but particularly spiritual and philosophical truth: i) having an untamed desire to name, reify, and control everything; and ii) believing that you, as opposed to others in relatively equal positions but with different characteristics, have some special access to or innate understanding of the truth. This idea that women are somehow greater than men, spiritually, will hurt the women who assume their own innate perfection far more than it hurts men (and of course we don't want to hurt anyone).

Originally posted by toolmaker
The Oldest Mystery religions ....... The cults and Mystery religions Good

For the love of AlexKennedy please edit your post, the medication, therapy, and counseling has almost rid AK of this demon, I beg you please do not contribute to AK's uncontrollable outbursts... Slowly I turned...Step by step�