Greek Protesters try to storm Greek Parliament

Do you know why there are alot of people in those countries out protesting and rioting?

Greece :
Panhellenic Socialist Movement won 43.9% of election
Communist Party won 7.5% of election
Combined these two leftist parties won 51.4% of the election, they are pretty hard-left parties so this means Greece has a majority made up of Socialists(Usually very active and sometimes violent/destructive).
en.wikipedia.org...

Spain :
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party won 43.9% of election
United Left won 3.8% of election
Combined these two leftist parties make up 47.7% of election, they are also pretty hard-left parties so this means Spain has a large amount of leftists. As mentioned above Sociliasts are known for their activism.
en.wikipedia.org...

Portugal :
Socialist Party won 36.6% of election
Left Bloc won 9.8% of election
These are the two largest leftist parties and they won 46.4% of the election. So they also make up a large amount of the voting base in Portugal. So we usually see alot of rioting, clashes and Unions calling for workers to stop working in countries with alot of active Socialists.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 3/6/10 by Misoir]

reply to post by Misoir


I see where your coming from - I shall retract what I said about media manipulation here in Spain:

The Popular Party claims that the advertising campaign 'estoloarreglamosentretodos.org' is made by famous journalists and media "related to the PSOE" in order to "cover up the government" in the aftermath of the crisis and "cover up the bad economic policy "Zapatero

Also

This procedure consists of arguments forwarded by leaders, public officials, activists and supporters of the PP on the "propaganda" against the economic crisis that is launched from the social environment

More

In particular, it ensures that the initiative 'estoloarreglamosentretodos.org' part of the Council of Chambers of Commerce and 18 large Spanish companies close to the Socialist government. De hecho, destaca que Javier Gómez Navarro , presidente del Consejo, fue ministro socialista con Felipe González. In fact, notes that Javier Gómez Navarro, president of the Council was socialist minister Felipe González.

Finally

Therefore, interprets that "the real aim" of the campaign is to "subtract responsibility to the Government" on the consequences of the crisis, the four million unemployed or the sharp decline in economic activity

Source

www.elmundo.es...

Well who's to say that Greece aint the same?

reply to post by Misoir


I would say the reason people are out protesting is the simple fact that the majority of this world's population has been kept on a wage that keeps them living paycheck to paycheck. Vacations savings accumulate too slowly and the cost of education increases to the point of unavailable.

The sheep are herded to tightly and are going to push at thier barriers. Hopefull, there will be more of the same and we will bring down the elite to pay for thier crimes.

reply to post by awakentired


Are you a Communist? That's what all my commie friends have been saying, the exact same sentence about the rich. I obviously agree because I am a Socialist. Anyways yes we are being pushed to the edge but the problem is that the english countries US,UK,Ireland,Canada,Australia,NZ they are all sheeple and would rather yell at the tv than yell outside of Congress like the people of mainland europe and almost everywhere else in the world.

-SocialDemocracyforAll

Don´t forget Iceland , we already took down our Government after weeks of protesting.

We stormed a Police station to free a protestor , we stormed the Parliament building, we exhausted the police force , we shut down a Live Tv chat show with politicians (we actually cut the physical cable for transmission) took to the streets with post and pans , drumsticks and anything to make a noise.

We stood out in front of the Parliament for weeks , pounding our percussion , making an incredible racket.

The highpoint of my life was standing in the High street with thousands of fellow Icelanders from all walks of life, chanting and drumming in front of an open fire.


Unforgettable.

In fact I think its a very effective form of protest , the noise and the unity felt when you hold a rhythm with hundreds of others is incredible.

Makes it easy to stand there in a trance for hours, and brings everyone together all the while pissing everyone else off with the noise.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
However , we also found out pretty quick that replacing the government changes absolutely nothing....we are gearing up for the next takedown and this time it will be permanent.

I Beleive that the people must stand united on these issues:

I agree with the coment regarding the English speaking nations - the people in the UK are more absorbed in other irrelevant things. Focus on the issues of rising cost of living and lower wages is non existant. I can't remember the last time any given amount of people took to the streets to fight against anything of that sort. 1 million people protested the Iraq war and nothing came of it. You would think organised protest of that scale would be a substantial deterent for the government. Not so.

For sure more and more people are realising the reality thats been hiddin from them through clever manipulation. It surely must come to a head in the near future, continual loss of so many jobs and no real hope of future employment must surely spur people into action. [wishfull thinking - maybe]

I have recently decided to contribute to this website due to the large number of intellegent people who clearly enjoy using their brains. Sad that the large majority of the population can't see the real reasons behind there problems. Hopefully your right mate and the sheeple get pushed into a response, take action against it much like our Icelandic freinds appear to have done.

I love it. Fortunately we will see more of this in the very near future and it will continue to escalate. And it is exactly what we need.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: peaceful protest will not work. We have tried that for hundreds of years and look where it has gotten us. If you want to defeat your enemy you have to adapt to their tactics. The only language they know is forced submission. We have to speak it to them by what ever means necessary.

There is great tradition of resistance in Greece. Their anti-fascist/nazi fight was truly heroic. Back in 2000 when IMF/WB criminals meeting was held in Prague, Greek delegation was most numerous and its younger members really did very hot hours to cca. 25.000 of cops. At the time I was not decided which side to take, I was blindfolded by media, so I took part of this party as documentarist. For sure there are honest cops but what I witnessed during that days ... with experience with bolshevik police ... police is police and is set up to serve TPTB - doesn't matter which ideology is prevalent at the time. Street security is just byproduct.
From this point I started to learn more and more and after almost 10 years of study I can honestly say IMF/WB are criminal plots. To be clear my world view was economically neoliberal / politically conservative. Know I'm somewhere between traditional social democracy (NO the one presented by T. Blair!) and anarchism. I know, this is quite conflicting but times evolved and as (I think) N. Klein said, national state can be our only weapon against corporations.
Keep the fight. No pasaran!

Originally posted by russ212
Why is it that most people on here blame the rich for all of their problems? I am by no means a wealthy man, in fact most would consider me poor, but I do realize that without wealthy people, there would be no one to purchase many of the products that our society makes. All of the high end car sales would cease and so would the jobs the people have of creating these jobs.

It is almost like people actually want to see communism tried again even though it has never worked effectively, and it has killed more people than died in WWII.

The goal should be to get corruption out of governments, and to make a fair and even tax so that we all pay the same percentage. And to you people that say even tax is not fair to the poor people remeber that 20 percent of a million dollars is a lot more than 20 percent of twenty thousand dollars.

When half of the people realize that they don't have to work, the other half will have to support those people, and this is impossible.

People below whatever is set at middle middle wage for their country for their family size SHOULD NEVER PAY TAXES.

The corporate holes through which they evade should be plugged. I will never forget the statistic Canada release of the average percentage middle class Canadians paid, something like 30-40%, whilst wealthy corporations paid between 6-8%, and many paid nothing due to all the things they could claim.

Forget it, better yet, everyone needs to overturn this system, I would prefer peacefully, but lining up at your local representatives office until they leave would be positive, in large numbers.

We don't need money, banks, slavery, bloodlines ruling over us. We do need something akin to complete equality, the venus project, and as to leaders, look within. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

Well educated, everyone taking their shifts, jury style, leadership, a system of high education and volunteering with reduced hours and lots of retraining, all according to interest.

Its criminal that we ever allowed others to dominate us, and havnt been living this already. Everything else is slavery, domination, fascism, and a crime against humanity.

Those who accept this system in any way, are co-creators, co-conspirators, co-slavers,co-frauders, co-exhortionists, and must share in the truama of the worlds poor and excluded, and the deaths of all the wars.

There is never an excuse for ignoring the system. We have to police it and take action against it perpetually to ensure it is us, and we are serving all the children.

Originally posted by russ212
Why is it that most people on here blame the rich for all of their problems?

Perhaps people's anger might stem from the actions of those who demanded to be left alone by government when the times were good... Then went cap in hand to government when their greed got the better of them and they lost it all

Perhaps people's anger might stem from the actions of those who had to be bailed out by the taxpayer because they royally screwed up ... only for the same taxpayer to now watch them give each other massive bonuses, whilst the ordinary man loses his job, house, and everything he owns

Perhaps people's anger might stem from the actions of those who, not content to make a decent profit, had to maximise their profits by off-shoring the jobs and production in order to squeeze the last ounce of profit they could ... in the process laying of millions and setting the scene for the financial and industrial wasteland we see now.

I could go on... but I think you should be able to get what I'm trying to say.

reply to post by zeddissad


I am too a Social Democrat, but I have conflict with Democratic Socialism which I see as equally as good. I use to be a Marxist but I then saw it as WAY too crazy and that we need a middle way between communism and capitalism and that is Social Democracy/Democratic Socialism.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman


at least the greeks have the balls to come out and protest against the rich scumbag elitist who screwed everything up that they, the common man and woman, have to now pay for. same goes with the portuguese and spanish people who are out in the streets right now.

I know there was some big protests in california against education cuts yesterday and i know there is some protests coming up for various other causes (especially april 19th's second amendment march) but none of these protests are specifically aimed at the heart of the cause. the rich fatcat bankers, the fed, big business and thier government puppetts and cronies... like joe stack, you've got to agree with john bedell's greivences against the government, i know you do we see these same opinons posted on ATS all the time, but maybe you dont agree with his actions.

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice" -John Adams

may the greek people prevail....

www.businessweek.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

What i would like to know is what do they think they was going to do if they were able to storm the parliament? Who was they going to put in office that could fix everything? And how do they know that person could fix everything? Just like american people the greek people have zero idea on how they could fix the nations problems.

reply to post by Misoir


Marx was reflecting situation of society 160 years ago! Still his insight is in many ways useful today. I recommend everybody to read Communists manifest - it is very actual. Rigid marxism (marx-leninism) is stupid ideology as any other ideology. There are marxists and marxists ...
I have big trouble with many current SocDem parties because:
1. They serve corporations same as right wing
2. They do not want any de-centralization (aka they are power hungry)

What we really need is to step out from now purely artificial left/right scheme and concern more on real division: freedom against totality. I was amazed that I share many similar views with what is called "extreme right wing" in US (that is the anarchist part of me) and on other hand I'm scarred that many US citizens do not realize benefits of (good) public schools and (good) public health care (that the socialist part of me).

So I also tend to some mixed model. There is not reason to ban free market but if the other part - corporation - have bigger sale than GDP of state is this really "free" market? We founded republics because we wanted to govern our lives by ourselves - now there are much stronger entities which dictates to states how to "regulate" them! Also I'm aware that not everything is possible to solve on communal level as true anarchist would want. I attended public university here and it was quite good. To form and maintain such institution as PUBLIC and fully opened you need little bit more than union of communities. Society needs well educated citizens and there is no reason why to oppress children of poor family of best education possible. Students loans are just other way to slavery. Will you study philosophy if you know that you must repay amount with which even programmer or material specialist will have trouble? Is it OK that only rich one can study philosophy?

Know, as I read my post again, I'm afraid that you can interpret it as assault but I§m relly just evolving our common thoughts.


EDIT: del of not useful not quote ...

[edit on 6-3-2010 by zeddissad]

Originally posted by Alien Mind

What i would like to know is what do they think they was going to do if they were able to storm the parliament? Who was they going to put in office that could fix everything? And how do they know that person could fix everything? Just like american people the greek people have zero idea on how they could fix the nations problems.

TPTB operates on bases of fear. Fear (and money/power) is only argument which they understand. As mentioned earlier peaceful protests leads nowhere. Time of negotiations ended. We should fight fiercely and sometime violently. We must push back them to their gated communities and starve them to dead. No social benefits for asocials and criminal white collar psychopaths. They are totally dependent on ordinary folks who do the work.

I'm not so naive to say that everything is better then current state of affairs, also I'm not so naive to say that we are living in the best possible world - different world is possible. Many PM are hot candidates for citizen's arrest (not sure if it is possible in Greece - it is not European tradition) for example. So reason for storming parliament is clear: We are able to do this and from know you will fear us.

reply to post by Alien Mind


you dont know that for sure. before anybody puts anyone in "power" first you have to remold what government is suppose to be. my personal utopia would be a world society of anarchy, where there is no government, no structure, no currency, no standing armies... people are so evolved that they dont feel the need for greed. i know, not entirely impossible but certainly not plausable in todays world. anyone ever read about the spanish civil war? some good reading on anarchist and anarchism in that war...

"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life– snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.– had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master. "

- George Orwell from "Homage to Catalonia" a book written about his experiences in anarchist spain during the spanish civil war (1936-1938)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Greeks plan 4 days of defiance, starting today!