Doubts about Freemasonry, with all the respect I ask for answers to both freemasons, and other peopl

Originally posted by zeddissad
Is it "kosher" to be member of "secret society" and to be a public official at same time?

Certainly. Just as it is 'kosher' to be a member of a college fraternity or sorority, the local Rotary, Elk's Lodge, etc.

Is not "secret society" and "democracy" contradictio in adjecto?

Considering we never refer to ourselves as a 'secret society' I think this is a bit of a logical fallacy.

Is it OK that every other POTUS was Skull&Bones member?

I do not think every other President was a Harvard graduate; or were you just making a general statement?

To whom are you then loyal? To "secret society" or to "society in general"?

For Freemasons it is; to God, your Country, your neighbor and yourself. In that order.

Originally posted by zeddissad
Lot of FMs here! Perfect time for question: Is it "kosher" to be member of "secret society" and to be a public official at same time?

If that "secret society" is Freemasonry, then the answer is yes. If the "secret society" in question is "The Brotherhood of Pedophiliac Drug-Dealers", probably not.

There's nothing in the tenets of Freemasonry which would bar him from public office, and, in fact, if he really follows the Masonic philosophies, he'd probably be a better public servant than someone who had not had similar instruction.

Is not "secret society" and "democracy" contradictio in adjecto?

Again, it depends on the society. I don't think it's something that you can cast a blanket aspersion on.

Is it OK that every other POTUS was Skull&Bones member?

If by "every other", you mean the Bush family, *shrug*

To whom are you then loyal? To "secret society" or to "society in general"?

Again, if you want to ask Freemasons, ask Freemasons...

From the charge following the Entered Apprentice degree

There are three great duties which, as a Mason, you are charged to inculcate—to God, your neighbor, and yourself. To God, in never mentioning His name, but with that reverential awe, which is due from a creature to his Creator; to implore His aid in all your laudable undertakings, and to esteem Him as the chief good. To your neighbor, in acting upon the square, doing unto him as you wish he should do unto you; and to yourself, in avoiding all irregularity and intemperance, which may impair your faculties, or debase the dignity of your profession. A zealous attachment to these duties will insure public and private esteem.

As a citizen, you are to be a quiet and peaceable subject, true to your government, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live.*

So Masons are agreeing to be sheeple. If you're looking for the puppet masters, you've got the wrong secret society.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Thank you for clarification and my apologies for "every other president" statement. Still Skull&Bones involvement in US administration is significant (I'm sorry, I almost sleeping now). One remark: Skull&Bones is Yale not Harvard society.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Many thanks for response and I apologize myself for (really) stupid and nonsense questions.

EDIT:

As a citizen, you are to be a quiet and peaceable subject, true to your government, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live.

#, this disqualifies me from freemasonry. First communists, then mafia, now banksters ... I'm not able to "conform with cheerfulness to the government" of any such type ...

[edit on 5-3-2010 by zeddissad]

Originally posted by zeddissad
Thank you for clarification and my apologies for "every other president" statement.

No worries.

One remark: Skull&Bones is Yale not Harvard society.

You are correct, I apologize for the error.

Any other questions feel free to ask.






[edit on 5-3-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus



Yes, there is one question left: what the "ad necem" in your signature mean? My poor Latin and bad Latin/Czech dictionary fail ... I tried inet also but "cracks" do not ad to the sentence ... Bad English, bad Latin, and often bad Czech ... Learn, learn, learn ... as companero Lenin said

reply to post by Szerablyn

Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate such help.

I'm not saying that Gaga, Jay Z, and others of the horrible modern music industry take part in the freemasonry, I'm just wondering why they use so much symbolism in their videos? vigilantcitizen.com... there you can read, and watch some videos that show direct symbolism.

Because it looks cool and it sells!

Why do people tattoo Chinese characters on their bodies when they can't read Chinese? Why do people tattoo tribal symbols they no nothing about? Why do people flock to merchandise with skulls and bones? Why did the Vampire / Goth / Emo look catch on? Why do suburbanite kids like Gangsta rap? Why is French food Romantic?

I'm sorry, but why do people automatically give credibility to something that is obvious art and imagery? Sure Lady Gaga and Jay Z and Michael Jackson put a bunch of mysterious cool looking stuff in their videos and CD covers. It got you talking about it didn't it? Mission accomplished!

Originally posted by zeddissad
Yes, there is one question left: what the "ad necem" in your signature mean?

The literal translation in English is:

In the good old days, children like you were left to perish on windswept crags.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I think the obvious thing is that 100 years ago lodges had more membership, and more wealth, and could build grander temples in the hearts of major cities.

Just a clarification on the Toronto Masonic Temple that the OP was asking after, JN. When built, that area was relatively in the boondocks by comparison and it was time and the growth of the city that eventually found it nearby what today has become the major intersection of the city.

I too am interested in Free Masonry. It seems that there is a lot of misinformation out there. Is there a forum that provides discussion with Masons to help us to find out the truth rather than conjecture?

reply to post by The Mundane Egg


you can ask here and find un-imaginable humor on some of the mis-information that is spewed. The mason on this board will answer any questions they can honestly. If you feel the need, just U2U one of us. Best to start a thread with questions though. That way you can get the benefit of having multiple answers.

reply to post by The Mundane Egg


Also find any local Masons. They will gladly invite you to a meal, they will answer any of your questions, and they will be upfront and honest about what it means to be a Mason.

You are welcome to U2U me as well.

While its an ask a Freemason a question Thread, May I ask a question?

Does anyone know whats the difference between The Grand Lodge of All England And The UGLE, United Grand Lodge of England?

I know The dates of when they was all set up, just wondering why the seperation.

Also noticed an Orange lodge aswell.

reply to post by Sparkey76

To my knowledge, and a simplistic answer, is that UGLE is official legit and recognized mainstream Freemasonry. The other, I've not really heard of of so I would tend to think not mainstream or recognized. Then again, I am not sure and would welcome a correction. Which I am sure will quickly follow if appropriate.

Originally posted by Sparkey76
Does anyone know whats the difference between The Grand Lodge of All England And The UGLE, United Grand Lodge of England?

To over simplify, the former was founded in 2005 and is not recognized by any United States Grand Jurisdictions while the latter was founded in 1717 and enjoys full recognition.

reply to post by Sparkey76


Not a Freemason, but I've spoken with the Grand Secretary before on another forum.

He feels that Freemasonry should be something of a elite society, and feels that contemporary Freemasonry has strayed to far from it's roots.
A Lodge that had been closd since the early 1900's was reopened, and they held a charter based off of a old one.

Please note, this was a couple of years back, and my memory is bad.

I'd recommend going through their website here: www.grandlodgeofallengland.org...


Also, there are many seperate Freemasonry organizations, that are not actually tied together.
Mainstream Masonry doesn't recognize them. However there are some that welcome women, or atheists, or are soley comprised of women.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Thanks Runespider, I have been on this website before and already knew the dates of when it was formed.

AugustusMasonicus, I already stated I knew the dates of when both was formed, it seems your being quite carful what you say here and only giving part an answer.


The Grand Lodge of All England was not founded in 2005.
It was refounded in 2005.

taken from the website.

AD 926 - ENGLAND'S MOST ANCIENT GRAND LODGE IS CONSTITUTED BY ROYAL CHARTER

Despite overwhelming evidence proving it to be a total fallacy, it is still claimed, and often repeated by Moderns freemasons that organised Free Masonry began in 1717 during an alleged meeting in the tiny back room of a London Ale-house under the chairmanship of "a nameless person". Remarkably, this spurious claim for Masonic regularity and recognition is solely based upon the proceedings of an unauthorised, profane meeting for which there is no historical record.

The history of the Order seemed to be one of its best kept secrets. I soon realised that little was known about what happened before 1717. The more I found out about the local history of Freemasonry in Yorkshire the more evidence I saw that it had been around for a long time before that first meeting at the Goose and Gridiron in London. York had a Grand Lodge of its own long before 1717. I found copies of Ancient Charges from well of over a hundred years before Freemasonry was supposed to have begun. None of the Craft’s own stories of its origins fitted the facts.

Its quite a read on the website and claims this original freemasonry was taken over.

In order to preserve the uniquely English form of Freemasonry handed down since the days of King Athelstan, The Grand Lodge at York moves to secure its inheritence by proclaiming its sovereignty over English Freemasonry. It adopts the name "The Grand Lodge of All England". This name change was necessary because of the attempts by the Moderns to appropriate genuine Anglo-Saxon Freemasonry for its own nefarious political and dynastic ends.


1738 - ANDERSON'S SECOND BOOK OF CONSTITUTIONS
Thirteen years have passed since the Grand Lodge of All England issued its warning to the London Grand Lodge against expansion outside of the bounds of London and Westminster.


1813 - UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND

The Unlawful Societies Act paves the way for Articles of Union (27th December 1813) between the "Antients" Grand Lodge and the unrecognised "Moderns" Grand Lodge of London. Under the leadership of brothers of the Hanoverian Blood Royal, Edward Duke of Kent and Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, the Articles provide for the final capitulation of the Grand Lodge of London in favour of the Antients "Grand Lodge of England". The United Grand Lodge of England is formed.


www.grandlodgeofallengland.org...

So this site is in fact implying UGLE is Unauthorised and has taken over its original form for its own needs and to move forward to a new era.








[edit on 7-3-2010 by Sparkey76]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Sparkey76]

reply to post by Sparkey76


You'd be better served treating the original Grand Lodge of All England and the newly formed one as two entirely separate entities, because basically what happened was a bunch of guys within the last handful of years decided to re-establish a charter without having any relationship with the original organization.

If you want to know why the first didn't get along with UGLE, you're better off looking at contemporary documents of the time when such a rift existed. Looking at the current GLoAE's website for answers is, at best, sifting through delusions of grandeur and tenuous association by name.

reply to post by Szerablyn


yes - the evidence is there for your own viewing

kind of - if you include that the Illuminati factor that hijacked the freemason back in the early days which are the ruling factors of today

yes - good and bad just as everything else

no - i doubt they are declining




Freemason are a secret society so i hope you dont expect any truth of anything protected out any masons on here just a though to take in. Also no need to apologize like they are more important than you just for asking a question, their just people who dress weird and do weird rituals (sorry no pun intended masons just not much for secret societies myself)

Low level masons which are the majority most probably have no clue about the ties most likely they just join up because they think its cool to be in a secret society or their dads were in it so they join forsake of their fathers or relatives acceptance.

Yet you have to dig deep into this the majority of the masons are good, but once you dig into it some you will see the Illuminati darkness working away, these are 2 totally different groups however they did infiltrate the mason and still thrive inside of them. So dont get me confused!!!



[edit on 7-3-2010 by OpTiMuS_PrImE]

Originally posted by Saurus
3. No - lodges are not restricted by race. An interesting example is when South Africa was still under the apartheid government, clubs and societies were forbidden to allow both black and white members. Freemasonry somehow managed to get exempted from this rule, and was the only society in South Africa which was legally allowed membership of both black and white men during the apartheid era.

The Lodge of South Africa is the only African lodge recognized by American Freemasonry. Some states don't even recognize any African lodges at all.

4. Freemasonry is declining in terms of numbers, but certainly not in values or morals. Although it is not always apparent to non-Masons, Freemasonry is still a global force in upholding traditional values such as virtue, honour and mercy.

I beg to differ. There are Freemasons on the Internet who complain that American Freemasonry is declining in terms for formality and adherence to tradition.