Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 2 Biblical Prophecy

reply to post by gYvMessanger


Mother Nature is not just a label. It seems that way doesnt it? But that is the art of deception and manipulation. Santa Clause it not just a sweet jolly man that gives gifts to children either. See it is all part of the bigger plan that no one can see. It is like everyone looks Satan in his face everyday yet they cannot see him. It is like you looking at the sky and seeing that it is blue when infact it is black. You see it but in a different way. The problem with trying to gain closeness to nature is not in itself evil, people are meaning to be evil, they have no idea of what evil is, not realy. It sounds nice, nature is good it was created by God, it supports our needs as humans, it is beautiful, it offers us enjoyment but nature itself is not a God or Godess, that is another way for Satan to fool you. There is no nuturing spirit of nature, that is the lie, God and the Holy Spirit nurture you. Angels protect and offer comfort.

reply to post by On the Edge


On the Edge, yes you get it. I would hope to warn and help people but so many do not know they need a arning or help and it angers them to offer it. But we can only try, then the rest is up to them. My starting this thread was not to preach but to offer understanding of what I believe so that others may learn. It has seemed to add to the hate and misunderstanding. I see I have lost many folks, sometimes when they cannot anger you or prove you wrong they run away. It is like a kid with a new toy they grow bored when it does not respond the way they wish it would. Yes I plan to draw the line from Noah to Transhumanism, and cloning and bioengineering. That is all covered in my next thread. I willpost it tomarrow, it has some specific scientific stuff that I wanted to make sure I got correct. I also stumbled on something pretty amazing in regards to the end times time line that I am excited about. But I will do that thread after I finish these 5. Thank you for stepping up, I can handle myself pretty good but having a little fellow Christian love never hurts. I hope you are very blessed and stay with me on this maybe you can help explain things.

The difference is that the current incarnation of Santa Claus was created by the Coca Cola Corporation to help them sell soft drinks. He wasn't a philosophy developed through the observation of the natural world as a way to draw closer to godhood. Its fairly clear you have absolutely zero understanding of the mother-goddess religions so I think its pretty forward of you to speak of them with such absolute condemnation of their practises.

Just as the current incarnation of Jesus is an idol created by a Satanic Church that is looking for divert the devout away from their father. See I can do it too.

There is no nurturing spirit of nature ? That is exactly what the creator is, a nurturing, loving, creating, divine being whose essence is expressed all around us through the creation in which we live.

Gospel of Thomas: the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.

reply to post by Melissa101


You're doing fine!

(Just thought I'd offer,since you were busy and all!)

It's a deep subject.This could be an on-going thread,for that matter. So much taking place it's impossible to grasp it all.

Keep up the good work!

Your friend and Volunteer Psychoanalyst,(Just kidding!),
On the Edge

reply to post by On the Edge


Perhaps then you should warn her that what she believes in is a book. That book does a really bad job of depicting God and it certainly is not something to start crowing about in this manner.

All religious text contains some elements of the Truth, but none hold in total. The one place you will find it though is within your own soul. The journey starts and ends there. From what she said in her first post, she really could do with some good soul-searching and less opining, because as of yet, she's offered nothing even remotely worth consideration - simply more bible-thumping.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by DisappearCompletely

 

Yep, pretty much. Hard to believe ain't it. But that is what I see now. I have to admit I learned these things over the course of time, I am not sure how I would have stomached it all at once. As things have been revealed to me I have been knocked sick at times. So I am not niave enough to think that someone without the faith I have to buy it. So I am not surprised or insulted.

Oh and I do not have any idea what the definition is of trolling? I have seen the term on here but I never knew what it meant. If I am trolling it is out of ignorance, so please excuse me.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Melissa101]

I see. So then explain something to me: since every single religion or philosophy i listed in my previous post predates judaism and christianity by several hundred to several thousand years, your beliefs (which seem to follow the path of several different forms of christianity, no matter how much you deny it) are contradictory. Why would an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient god allow such religions to thrive for so long before deciding to pass his or her "word" down to man? You're talking about condemning entire populations and generations of people to eternal torment simply because god was a little slow on passing down his history. I'm not going to even get into the nonexistent concept of lucifer or satan existing while these religions were thriving, so your whole concept is illogical.

And if we really are supposed to rely on a god that is: too slow to let us know the deal, fanatical about his own worship, and one of the greatest mass murders in history, i'd rather remain a heathen.

Originally posted by DisappearCompletely

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by DisappearCompletely

 

Yep, pretty much. Hard to believe ain't it. But that is what I see now. I have to admit I learned these things over the course of time, I am not sure how I would have stomached it all at once. As things have been revealed to me I have been knocked sick at times. So I am not niave enough to think that someone without the faith I have to buy it. So I am not surprised or insulted.

Oh and I do not have any idea what the definition is of trolling? I have seen the term on here but I never knew what it meant. If I am trolling it is out of ignorance, so please excuse me.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Melissa101]

I see. So then explain something to me: since every single religion or philosophy i listed in my previous post predates judaism and christianity by several hundred to several thousand years, your beliefs (which seem to follow the path of several different forms of christianity, no matter how much you deny it) are contradictory. Why would an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient god allow such religions to thrive for so long before deciding to pass his or her "word" down to man? You're talking about condemning entire populations and generations of people to eternal torment simply because god was a little slow on passing down his history. I'm not going to even get into the nonexistent concept of lucifer or satan existing while these religions were thriving, so your whole concept is illogical.

And if we really are supposed to rely on a god that is: too slow to let us know the deal, fanatical about his own worship, and one of the greatest mass murders in history, i'd rather remain a heathen.

I am having a difficult time getting people to understand that the worship of God pre-dates all other religions and Christianity is simply an extension of the worship of God. Prior to the Bible as we know it today people did not read and write and few barely knew their own language much less have the ability to read another language. There were many written accounts of and many oral accounts of the early parts of the Bible. People were informed of who God is and how to worship him. But we must remember Satan has been in existence since before man so since man he has been developing diversions, weather that is twisted forms of worshipping God to worshipping the stars to worshipping toad frogs. It is a grave misconception that any other religion pre-dates the worship of God. Adam and Eve worshipped God but Eve was deceived by Satan. Also it is another grave misconception that God is responsible for all death and suffering.

Logic? Not logical by whose standards? Mans? Satan’s? Logic without the knowledge of God is like a bicycle without wheels. You can sit on it but you ain’t going no where.
There were/are many people in history that did not have the knowledge of God. But there is a plan for them and there are not as many as you would think. They will get their chance to make their choice I assure you. Far more have outright rejected him than never knew him.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
The difference is that the current incarnation of Santa Claus was created by the Coca Cola Corporation to help them sell soft drinks. He wasn't a philosophy developed through the observation of the natural world as a way to draw closer to godhood. Its fairly clear you have absolutely zero understanding of the mother-goddess religions so I think its pretty forward of you to speak of them with such absolute condemnation of their practises.

Just as the current incarnation of Jesus is an idol created by a Satanic Church that is looking for divert the devout away from their father. See I can do it too.

There is no nurturing spirit of nature ? That is exactly what the creator is, a nurturing, loving, creating, divine being whose essence is expressed all around us through the creation in which we live.

Gospel of Thomas: the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.

I do not dispute what you are saying. The vehicles used to deliver Santa is not relevant to the fact that the entire concept is anti-Bible. There is no mother goddess, that is the deception. To respect nature as God created it is not "bad" thing. Thinking there is a mother-goddess over all nature is different. Yes me must know ourselves but you are not going to find yourself in nature. You will only findyourself by looking within. Yes God our creator is a nurturing, loving, creating, divine being whose essence is expressed all around us through the creation in which we live. But nature does not have a spirit in and of itself. Not the way nature worshipping folks think.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by On the Edge

 

Perhaps then you should warn her that what she believes in is a book. That book does a really bad job of depicting God and it certainly is not something to start crowing about in this manner.

All religious text contains some elements of the Truth, but none hold in total. The one place you will find it though is within your own soul. The journey starts and ends there. From what she said in her first post, she really could do with some good soul-searching and less opining, because as of yet, she's offered nothing even remotely worth consideration - simply more bible-thumping.

You can address me directly I will not bite, I promise. Growl yes, bite no. The book you are referring to is the word of God that was given to us by God. The book does a perfect job of depicting God it is the reader that lacks understanding. All religious text does offer a hint of truth because they were created out of the knowledge of the original religion. If I have offered nothing even remotely worth consideration why did you take the time to consider it and reply? Not trying to be a smart azz just stating the obvious. Bible thumping? Absolutly, there is no shame there.

reply to post by Melissa101


I'm free to address whomever I so choose here and I addressed that member for my own reasons. I have free will and the freedom to exercise it, young one.

What you are touting here has nothing to do with God, it has only to do with the Bible which is only one of many religious texts.

It is a book, dear child. A simple book written in a particularly confused, violent, heartless part of the world - much as it is today too. Is that really God's country? Seriously?

Jesus himself was not as portrayed in the Bible and we know that because of other accounts of his activities. Please stop quoting that one source. Broaden your mind and your heart. You are currently too narrow in your scope.

Do you really, honestly believe that a benevolent God would want his creations pitted one against another? Do your parents have a favorite child? Would you as a mother have a favorite? Surely you see how impossible this is for one who knows only love. One is no better nor any worse than another - only different. God does not want anything from us except that we are happy and that we help others to be happy, to learn lessons that will reconnect us to the God within us.

I speak from experience.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by On the Edge

 

Perhaps then you should warn her that what she believes in is a book. That book does a really bad job of depicting God and it certainly is not something to start crowing about in this manner.

All religious text contains some elements of the Truth, but none hold in total. The one place you will find it though is within your own soul. The journey starts and ends there. From what she said in her first post, she really could do with some good soul-searching and less opining, because as of yet, she's offered nothing even remotely worth consideration - simply more bible-thumping.

Well,no one ever said we weren't entitled to our opinions!

She's free to believe whatever she likes.

Here's an annoying video I just ran across coincidentally (it kills me the way the program pronounces wrongly, why?) and but I thought "I just saw a thread on ATS around this point, maybe it would be suitable if I posted this video"...so here it is...


[edit on 5-3-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

hello op, i have a few things id like to address.

1) what inside knowledge do you have on peoples levels of faith? is there a meter that im unaware of? you speak of faith as the reason you understand this alluded to but not addressed connection. but faith its self is defined as beliving in something you cant proove, so how does beliving in something unproovable allow you special perception that prooves it?

2) you may not intend to offend but you do, as with your example "why would mother nater allow the weather" well because with no weather everything dies, we need rain, storms, lightning, wild fires, earthquakes, ect. you use these type of examples but they belittle the belifes of others.

3) you say that satan is behind all evil but do not seem to want to address that by your logic god created satan as part of his plan, and satan makes people do evil things so therefore by default god is responsible for all evil. by this logic its gods fault little children get raped, that crack addicts steal and murder to get crack (which was made by a man but sience god made man and satan its his responsibility).

4) heres the big one for me, i am neo pagan, i worship universal forces that i represent as the gods of ancient greece to better visualize them when i worship, specificly my patron god is thanatos the god of death, my antropomorphic imagining of the force of death and decay. so by would you classify me as evil and tricked by satan ?

thank you for your time

Originally posted by Melissa101

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by On the Edge

 

Perhaps then you should warn her that what she believes in is a book. That book does a really bad job of depicting God and it certainly is not something to start crowing about in this manner.

All religious text contains some elements of the Truth, but none hold in total. The one place you will find it though is within your own soul. The journey starts and ends there. From what she said in her first post, she really could do with some good soul-searching and less opining, because as of yet, she's offered nothing even remotely worth consideration - simply more bible-thumping.

You can address me directly I will not bite, I promise. Growl yes, bite no. The book you are referring to is the word of God that was given to us by God. The book does a perfect job of depicting God it is the reader that lacks understanding. All religious text does offer a hint of truth because they were created out of the knowledge of the original religion. If I have offered nothing even remotely worth consideration why did you take the time to consider it and reply? Not trying to be a smart azz just stating the obvious. Bible thumping? Absolutly, there is no shame there.

No Melissa, you are wrong. The book in question is not the DIRECT word of God as you put it. It was MAN'S transcription of his words. I don't think God came down with his big quill pen an ink and started writing. How are you so sure that the people who supposedly heard and wrote down his words weren't deceived themselves? You simply cannot know. The book that which you follow (which I have addressed in my previous post to you) was trascribed by MAN. And said book states that MAN IS FALLIBLE. Therefore, we cannot trust the words in said book because it was written by the hands of man....it didn't fall out of the sky from the heavens all written out.

reply to post by Melissa101


Hey there Melissa101,

Well I have just finished reading through your 2ND THREAD, and you still have not touched on the actual challenge I set you ... we have still not heard about the other than biblical research you claim to have carried-out that brought you to the point of making your claim that Occultism/Satanism are the same thing ... and that anything other than Christianity is the 'work of the devil'.

The whole point of the challenge that I offered (and you accepted), was for you to make your point without referring to the bible ... but by using your other 'research knowledge' to prove your claim ... so far there is no sign of this happening.

You will recall that I said I would make a public appology to you on your thread if you could make good on your claim ... at the moment I have to say I am disapointed ... but I will still appologize publically if you can actually show that you have other sources besides the Bible to draw upon.

In case you have forgotten what led to the challenge here are some links to refresh your memory along with an extensive list of subjects you claim to have studied in depth, in two of the posts linked here; (hope they work) ...


>>> The Thread

Originally posted by Melissa101
I am having a difficult time getting people to understand that the worship of God pre-dates all other religions and Christianity is simply an extension of the worship of God.

Yes. Worshipped as the sun, worshipped as Brahman, etc. which have little similarity AT ALL to the god in the bible. Maybe you should do a little more research to understand the differences, because they are quite extreme.

Prior to the Bible as we know it today people did not read and write and few barely knew their own language much less have the ability to read another language. There were many written accounts of and many oral accounts of the early parts of the Bible.

People didn't know how to read and write? What? Clearly you have a shallow grasp on history. What of Babylon, or the Indus Valley who used one of the most beautiful and complex languages ever in existence, you know, Sanskrit. Or what about ancient Egypt? Clearly they couldn't read or write at all and all of the writing found is a hoax. I could write you an essay about ancient language, but it really has nothing to do with this.

As far as oral accounts, take the Vedas (known as the oldest religious texts in existence). They were also passed down orally for who knows how long. So explain to me how anything in the bible is applicable to anything during these times periods since they wouldn't come into existence for a LONG time after eastern philosophy had thrived. And if you're going to argue the contrary, provide EVIDENCE that biblical accounts existed before any of these, otherwise your argument is invalid.

People were informed of who God is and how to worship him.

By what standards? Certainly not the biblical standards since it wasn't even around.

But we must remember Satan has been in existence since before man so since man he has been developing diversions, weather that is twisted forms of worshipping God to worshipping the stars to worshipping toad frogs. It is a grave misconception that any other religion pre-dates the worship of God. Adam and Eve worshipped God but Eve was deceived by Satan. Also it is another grave misconception that God is responsible for all death and suffering.

You have any proof to back up the claim of satan existing before man? Proof of adam and eve?

Oh, but god is responsible for all death and suffering, because he 'designed' us to die. He also went on genocidal rampages throughout the bible. And since he apparently created everything in existence, that means he created satan as well, which makes god the source of all evil.

Logic? Not logical by whose standards? Mans? Satan’s? Logic without the knowledge of God is like a bicycle without wheels. You can sit on it but you ain’t going no where.
There were/are many people in history that did not have the knowledge of God. But there is a plan for them and there are not as many as you would think. They will get their chance to make their choice I assure you. Far more have outright rejected him than never knew him.

Actually, whenever attempting to incorporate logic into a discussion about the supernatural, the idea itself ceases to exist. You cannot logically discuss something that has no empirical evidence to support it at all.

Ah, wonderful threats! Living in the apparent ignorance of god will leave us with an eternity of suffering! Such a wonderful loving and forgiving god. All those murderers and child rapists but have to accept jesus into their lives, but if someone lead a altruistic existence and denied the existence of god: sorry, down to the pit with you!

Melissa,

Please don't take this as an attack, but I don't think you are in any position to be "enlighten" "warn" or "protect" anyone as you seem to have no understanding of what you condemn. More over, your grasp of Christianity seems to be tentative at best.

You keep referring to the worship of "God", but what God are you referring to? Do you mean IHVH? Which Jesus do you worship? Yeshua? The Khristos?

Your assumption that people before the Bible were illiterate slobs is ignorant at best. There is no religion I can think that is more magical than that of the Ancient Egyptians, that religion was highly influential to both the Hebrews and the Greek writers of much New Testament material. The Greeks were so influenced by the religion of the Egyptians that they adamantly combined their religion with that of the Egyptians.

Much of early Christianity borrows from many esoteric religions that were contemporary to Christ and the early church. The Bible itself has many esoteric passages, namely Ezekiel and Revelation, however, much of what Jesus spoke of was esoteric and contained many levels of meaning that only certain people would understand.

Why is it that those who study and practice the Occult know so much more about the Christian religion than Christians know about Occult traditions?

If I were you, Melissa, I would take some time to study and re-examine my prior misconceptions and make sure that I wasn't being led astray by forces quite different from those I thought I followed.

Although, I'm sure you will just ignore this post as you have done with my other posts in your threads.

So Melissa, can I take it from the fact that you have stopped answering my posts, but have continued to answer others, that you are not going to answer my inquiries?

>

Bout what I figured.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by captaintyinknots]

Originally posted by On the Edge
If I may step in here for just a second...in defense of Melissa...

From what I can hear,she is not coming to comdemn anyone,but rather,to warn them.

From her point of view,those who don't know the Lord will perish for all eternity.(Correct?Whatever that entails,many Christians themselves disagree over this,and other subjects ,like,"the Rapture").

This is just about the exact same thing that was used as an excuse right before they lit the torches and burned people at the stake.

Obviously I am not saying that is what anyone is getting to here, but you understand why it's not something that should just be shrugged off, right?

It seems God stops speaking through Melissa when she is confronted by questions or evidence beyond her realm of understanding.

If Satan means adversary, and Ignorance is the adversary of enlightenment, and enlightenment is the purpose of religion, then perhaps the occultists aren't the Satanists after all.