Clackamas man exercises free speech rights by giving cops the finger

He he I had to post this story about free speech! It makes me feel like perhaps I have a new hero in the fight to retain our rights! Thank you sir!

When Robert J. Ekas decided to exercise his right to free speech, he didn't open his mouth.

He hoisted his middle finger.

His single-digit protests, aimed at Clackamas County sheriff's deputies last year, resulted in verbal showdowns, traffic tickets and, ultimately, a federal lawsuit.

Giving a police officer the finger may be a rude and ill-advised gesture, but it is not against the law, legal experts say.

"The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently held that speech may not be prohibited simply because some may find it offensive," said Ira P. Robbins, a law professor from American University in Washington, D.C. "Virtually every time someone is arrested for this, assuming there's no other criminal behavior ... the case is either dismissed before trial or the person is convicted at trial and wins on appeal."

Priceless!!!

www.oregonlive.com...

I have had this happen twice in my 9 years of being a LEO. Really not a big deal...I mean if it made the mans day, then hey, all is well....


EDIT: I have however seen a female give a fellow officer the finger and call him an effing pig. So he threw her the finger and said have a nice day and guess what...SHE complained...lol...oh the joy of this job and some of the turds we deal with.

[edit on 3/2/2010 by rcwj1975]

reply to post by rcwj1975


Well that does indeed suck for your friend but it brings into play two things here, one a man is being immature by flipping the cops the bird but it is his right to do so and two, a cop is and should be held to a higher standard and shouldn't even react to something so silly to begin with. Your friend should have just ignored her just like I ignore ridiculous comments and threats made to me by gangbangers every other day for being a white boy in "their" neighborhood. It is called self control! In the mean time viva la constitution! And keep pushing it you weirdos because it proves the right is still ours! Take care btw..lol..

reply to post by Redwookieaz


No he did it for fun...definitly wasn't mad or offended. Just figured he would see what her reaction would be. This all goes back to being human. Cop or not, when your pushed, at some point you will push back..even if it lightly....no training, no nothing can prevent this...only NOT being human could

Funny story:
when we were kids, my bro. and I were bored in the car on a long drive (headed out of state) vacation. we were being jerks and flipped off a cop we passed on the road (I was probably 9 or 10) and not long after that my dad got pulled over! completely freaked me out, thought I was in a ton of trouble... turns out my dad was just speeding.

Lol what you mean you cops aren't killer robots!? LOL you are just throwing me through a loop there! As for your story Lady that would scare the poop outta me too lol! Lucky your Dad got the blame on that one cuz if my kids got me pulled over for that wekk after the giggling fit I'd be ticked at them for doing it while I'm driving. Ha ha. For some reason if a cop was to flip out on this guy for giving the finger though I'm gonna have to say they belong with that snowball story cop in a psychiatric hospital not out on patrol because if you're that aggressive that you can't handle getting the finger or a snowball w/o looking for vengeance, yeah you are not good LEO material in my eyes and hopefully in a LEO department's eyes as well!

Kudos to Ekas for expressing his discontent. I think more of this needs to happen to send a subtle gesture. It does no harm other than to dent the ego of people who probably need to come down a few pegs anyways. With so much video now and juicy lawsuits to boot it makes for some pleasant entertainment.
Up yours coppers !

brill

Sign language should be protected free speech.... Good for him.

Sadly, there is no way to express such sign language here on ATS without getting into trouble.

So, to any rogue agents out there, I am using sign language now.

You're #1

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by Redwookieaz

 

No he did it for fun...definitly wasn't mad or offended. Just figured he would see what her reaction would be. This all goes back to being human. Cop or not, when your pushed, at some point you will push back..even if it lightly....no training, no nothing can prevent this...only NOT being human could

What?? training has no effect on emotions? for COPS sure, but would you accept that from a DOCTOR or LAWYER? Hell NO!! Only cops seem to get to call themselves professionals but exempt themselves from all professional conduct by claiming to be ' human', as if that is any excuse for acting in an illegal manner..shame on any cop that uses an excuse like that for his inability to handle the job.

The JOB of a cop is to IGNORE legal conduct and focus on ILLEGAL conduct, right? How can they be expected to remain impartial and fair when their ' feelings ' get damaged so easily? Like I said elsewhere, if a copper cannot ignore legal conduct, no matter how much they personally dislike it, then they do not deserve a badge and gun...they are too unstable for police work, and thats a fact.

Originally posted by richierich
What?? training has no effect on emotions? for COPS sure, but would you accept that from a DOCTOR or LAWYER? Hell NO!! Only cops seem to get to call themselves professionals but exempt themselves from all professional conduct by claiming to be ' human', as if that is any excuse for acting in an illegal manner..shame on any cop that uses an excuse like that for his inability to handle the job.

The JOB of a cop is to IGNORE legal conduct and focus on ILLEGAL conduct, right? How can they be expected to remain impartial and fair when their ' feelings ' get damaged so easily? Like I said elsewhere, if a copper cannot ignore legal conduct, no matter how much they personally dislike it, then they do not deserve a badge and gun...they are too unstable for police work, and thats a fact.

Really this argument gets old. Until you are a cop and deal with it your opinion is just that. You think we should be able to take ANYTHING without ever letting it get to us and if we can't we don't deserve our jobs...and that mindset is downright stupid. Why, because it is IMPOSSIBLE. Not ONE human being can be a cop or any profession without emotions at times. To think otherwise is just unrealistic. And people like you will scream we should be able to deal with it all WITHOUT ever reacting just solidifies that you like kicking the dog and when you get bit, you blame the dog, not yourself.

As I always have said before and this it the TRUE test....become a cop, you guys wanna tell us how to be, feel, act, live, etc....yet none are willing to come and see what we see, deal with it, live with it, etc....hell people don't even want to do ride alongs anymore because they KNOW what goes on out there and don't wanna be anywhere near it, they would rather we just handle it.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Hi
I lived in Vancouver, Canada in the late nineties for a spell after marrying a Canadian. Canadians are super nice people and very, very polite.
I came across the bird-flip free speech thing on the net (still a new thing for me then) --(the net, not free speech lol) and decided to test it on an RCMP officer in traffic. I told the wife it would be OK and on the count of three I gave a little honk on the horn and when the officer turned to us, we flipped him in unison. He slowly shook his head as he turned his head away. Very professional and in control.
He realised I was just being a jerk.

Anyway, on the subject of professional self-control, I would just like to throw this out there...
I know that some think that training is supposed to somehow turn a normal human being into an emotionless robot when practising their chosen profession. Those in the service industry can appreciate the self-control necessary when dealing with obnoxious customers.

I just have to wonder, though, how effective training is in suppressing base instincts/emotions. I sometimes wondered how gyneacologists manage, for instance. I would flip out if I had to do breast exams all day, too. There has to be a point where training goes out the window and base emotions take over.
I think the emotions which involve the "fight or flight" instinct must be really hard to control, no matter what the training. Sometimes a smack in the mouth accomplishes a lot more, and a lot more quickly, than an hour long patient debate with somebody who really just needs a smack in the mouth.

Cops have a hard job. Some cops become cops because it gives them power they would not have if they were just ordinary civilians. Those are the ones who get upset if you flip them off.

My .02 cents...

Regards

Flipping the bird is also known as "the international challenge to fight".. and challenging to fight in public is a misdemeanor.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Flipping the bird is also known as "the international challenge to fight".. and challenging to fight in public is a misdemeanor.

NONSENSE!! Where did you get that bit of foolishness? That is TOTALLY a fabrication and no one here should believe such nonsense.

There is NO SUCH THING as any ' international challenge to fight', either in literature or law...or in common experience.

maybe you have never traveled outside your state, but overseas the middle finger means NOTHING to most of the world. There are signs in other nations that are totally different. A middle finger in greece does not have the same meaning as here...and in italy, it is totally different.

In the USA, a middle finger has been defined by the courts as FREE SPEECH. There has never been a succesful court case against anyone for simply lifting a middle finger...it has NEVER been found to be an example of ' fighting words' which is a REAL legal term, unlike your imagined silliness.

The INTENT TO PROVOKE A VIOLENT RETAILATION is the standard as to whether or not a gesture is considered to be ' fighting words'...if your INTENT is to express your feelings about a person or whatever, then the finger is LEGAL and CANNOT be considered as a provocation allowing retaliation.

If all that went over your head then just remember this: you are mistaken and should adapt your views to reality.

Originally posted by richierich

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Flipping the bird is also known as "the international challenge to fight".. and challenging to fight in public is a misdemeanor.

NONSENSE!! Where did you get that bit of foolishness? That is TOTALLY a fabrication and no one here should believe such nonsense.

There is NO SUCH THING as any ' international challenge to fight', either in literature or law...or in common experience.

maybe you have never traveled outside your state, but overseas the middle finger means NOTHING to most of the world. There are signs in other nations that are totally different. A middle finger in greece does not have the same meaning as here...and in italy, it is totally different.

In the USA, a middle finger has been defined by the courts as FREE SPEECH. There has never been a succesful court case against anyone for simply lifting a middle finger...it has NEVER been found to be an example of ' fighting words' which is a REAL legal term, unlike your imagined silliness.

The INTENT TO PROVOKE A VIOLENT RETAILATION is the standard as to whether or not a gesture is considered to be ' fighting words'...if your INTENT is to express your feelings about a person or whatever, then the finger is LEGAL and CANNOT be considered as a provocation allowing retaliation.

If all that went over your head then just remember this: you are mistaken and should adapt your views to reality.

I've arrested people for it.. 415.1PC.. or 415.3 either one. There absolutely are international challenges to fight, in my "professional opinion".. Suspects were welcome to fight the charges, challenge my opinion, take it to the supreme court.. or sue me. I cant remember if the DA even filed the cases, I just didn't care.

Legal prescience and case law are made when street cops apply their "goofy" opinions to incidents like this, and sometimes the courts agree. If the courts don't agree, oh well.. can win em all during a 20 year career.

The thing most people don't realize, is the arresting officer doesn't give a rats ass if the DA doesn't file charges, or a jury eventually agrees with the suspect.. it's a weak misdemeanor pinch, an attitude arrest.. govt sanctioned harassment.. the suspect gets booked, does a day or 2 in jail, which is a massive humiliation / PITA... cops call it sentencing someone to "local time".

You can test this BTW: go to any LAPD/LASD station and flip off the officers / deputies as they come & go.. you will find yourself booked for challenging to fight in public 415.1 or 415.3 or 148PC.. or detained for 72 hours per 5150WIC.. I say you'd last 10 minutes.. I'd be happy to youtube your arrest..

It's not right, fair or just.. it's just the way it goes... one of those dirty tricks cops use to F people over, I know them ALL... nobody has sued & won a painful enough settlement to put a stop to it either... you could be that person, go for it!

415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight.

(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
one of those dirty tricks cops use to F people over, I know them ALL...

And cops wonder why people hate them.

reply to post by GovtFlu


Your ' professional opinion' is worth squat. There is NO SUCH THING as any internation challenge, and I callenge YOu to find that phrase in any literature or laws or anywhere except your imagination. you CANNOT.

Also, you prove what kind of cop you were, not caring if a charge was valid or not!! That PROVES that you were a rouge cop with NO RESPECT for either the law or the people who paid your salary. Your entire post is one that screams out: I do not care about the law....or the system.... or what happens after I arrest someone...and THAT means that you are a part of the problem...you would never make it long as a cop acting like that....either the courts would get tired of dismissing your arrests...or the DA would get tired of being embarrassed trying to cover for you...or you would run into a guy like ME that would take you to a Federal court and take everything you own.

Maybe THAT would get you to wake up and realize: Cops are not little Gods....Cops cannot charge for non-crimes...and if they DO, then they are criminals themselves.

And the law you quoted has NOTHING TO DO WITH A MIDDLE FINGER!!

challenging someone to a fight CANNOT be assumed from the mere finger gesture. If you as a cop saw a citizen with his finger up, a LEGAL gesture, and you saw someone about to attack that person, you would be BOUND by your oath and the law to STOP the assault and protect the man using his finger. If you did not do that, then you are a CRIMINAL cop.

Just because someone MIGHT get riled over a gesture does NOT mean that you can prohibit that activity...OR arrest for it. NOT ONE case of the middle finger has ever gone beyond a lower court...it always gets shown that it is a legal gesture. Some cop you were....don't comprehend the law....don't CARE to comprehend it, and don't care about the rights of the people!! No wonder the people hold cops in such low regard...you as an example is a nightmare for them.

reply to post by rcwj1975


More nonsense!! A PSYCHIATRIST is one example; do we say it is Ok for a doctor to lose his cool because a patient was difficult? NO!! Never!! Unacceptable!! PROFESSIONALS, which cops are not...have enough maturity and training to be able to IGNORE conduct and look past the obvious. if a psychiatrist ever lost his cool with a mentally ill patient , he would be in serious trouble....but COPS want to call themselves ' professional ' and yet also want us to forgive them if they ' lose it' !!

There is NO DEFENSE for a cop that allows his ' professionalism' to disappear just because he takes offense at some real or imagined slight from a suspect. being ' human' is not an excuse.

Can you imagine if your wife was having a baby and the OB/GYN lost his cool because of all the screaming and gore he was awash in..and acted unprofessionally. You would be outraged, as well you should. Any PROFESSIONAL puts his ' feelings' on a back burner and swallows his bile and acts in a way that does service to his duties.

But of course the cops want to be ' respected' and seen as ' professionals' while at the same time demanding we allow them the luxury of throwing all that away as soon as someone ' offends' them by using a LEGAL gesture!! If that seems fair and intelligent, then you MUST be a cop, because no one else could see it that way.

Originally posted by richierich
More nonsense!! A PSYCHIATRIST is one example; do we say it is Ok for a doctor to lose his cool because a patient was difficult?

You are smart enough to know that they have other avenues they can use when dealing with people like that. They can simply refuse to see the person and send them to another doctor. Or hell even better, they can legally have them medicated or restrained...so not such a good comparison.

Can you imagine if your wife was having a baby and the OB/GYN lost his cool because of all the screaming and gore he was awash in..and acted unprofessionally. You would be outraged, as well you should. Any PROFESSIONAL puts his ' feelings' on a back burner and swallows his bile and acts in a way that does service to his duties.

A women giving birth vs an ahole throwing the bird. Yet another great comparison!!!

But of course the cops want to be ' respected' and seen as ' professionals' while at the same time demanding we allow them the luxury of throwing all that away as soon as someone ' offends' them by using a LEGAL gesture!! If that seems fair and intelligent, then you MUST be a cop, because no one else could see it that way.

Respect as a cop...no, thats fine if you don't want to respect me as a cop. My issue is have some FN common courtesy (respect) for your fellow man. I hate the ACLU and those who work for them, but would I, as a MATURE adult, throw one of them the finger? No!

reply to post by GovtFlu


Wow, if you truely are a cop, you are the first one to admit you purposely abuse people on here. So, it's o.k. with you to do this? And people wonder about the lack of respect.