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The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is considering making brake-override systems mandatory for all cars going forward as a way of coping with the unintended acceleration, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said yesterday.
As Toyota blames poorly fitting floor mats and sticky gas pedals for the recall of millions of vehicles, the growing tangle of wires, sensors and computer chips are being scrutinized as the root cause…
Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by pedroroach
Because they save money on components, wear and tear, fuel economy, and usually provide better safety.
People didn't have problems with steam trains, either, but we moved on from them once better technology presented itself. Luddism isn't helping anyone.
Originally posted by pedroroach
reply to post by davesidious
Embedded systems or not, one thing you have learned is that computers are not infallible.
Now we have seen what happens when a computer controlling a throttle plate does when it messes up, it is very unpredictable.
Now when a cable breaks, the throttle return spring will close the butterfly and you will slow down.
Mechanical controlling mechanical should be the norm in cars anyways.
[edit on 3-3-2010 by pedroroach]
[edit on 3-3-2010 by pedroroach]
Originally posted by kinda kurious
Big hat tip to OP and many subsequent posters offering input to this vexing issue. As I mentioned, I have a keen interest in this subject.
As 911stinks said, the video illustrates the ability to induce a hard-wired short under test conditions, but not in real world.
As we all know, intermittent problems are hardest to solve. I am beginning to think in light of the AP video that this is part and parcel (and quite possibly the beginning) of the inherent risks of complex electronics and computers to perform mundane tasks.
Conspiracy and analysisaside, I still maintain that Toyota handled this poorly. Inasmuch as it may bring about a fail-safe brake overide in future models, where does that leave the millions who are stuck with existing vehicles.
Once again, emotion and perceived sense of security is paramount to technical understanding for many drivers like my elderly Mother-In-Law.
However, with her limited understanding of such things, she suspects a simple little piece of metal won't solve this issue and provides no solace. And perhaps, your seat is not a flotation device.
I look forward to future updates and thanks again 911stinks for your diligence throught this thread. It offers me great insight in the most unlikely of placrs, right inder my nose.
EDIT TO ADD RELATED:
www.dailyfinance.com...
Regards...kk
[edit on 3-3-2010 by kinda kurious]
Toyota has recalled millions of cars and trucks—4.2 million to replace floor mats that might impede throttle-pedal travel, and 2.4 million to install a shim behind the electronic pedal assembly. All of the affected pedal assemblies were made by Canadian supplier CTS. Toyota's boffins have documented a problem that can make a few of these pedals slow to return, and maybe even stick down. Problem solved.
But the media, Congress—and personal-injury lawyers—smell the blood in the water. Not to diminish the injuries and a few deaths attributable to these very real mechanical problems, but they're statistically only a very small blip, which may explain why Toyota took so long to identify the issue, especially when it has symptoms similar to the similarly documented floor mat recall. Plus, sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) is notoriously difficult to diagnose because, more often then not, the problem can't be repeated in front of a mechanic. Let's not forget the Audi SUA episode back in the '80s; the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration eventually concluded that there was no mechanical problem. The culprit, as hard as this is to admit, was most likely driver error. To put the issue into context, in the last decade, there were about 24,000 customer complaints about SUA involving almost every major automaker. The NHTSA investigated fewer than 50.
The issue now is whether there's a more insidious problem unrelated to the two recalls already extant. Specifically, whether there's some design flaw in the entire concept of electronic throttle control. Some are questioning whether electromagnetic interference from devices like cellphones could be contributing to the acceleration problems.
It used to be that there was a steel cable that ran from the pedal itself through the firewall and attached to the throttle blades that admitted air to the intake manifold. A sticking throttle could be the result of friction anywhere—in the pedal pivot, between the cable itself and its nylon-lined sheath, or in the carburetor or fuel-injection throttle blades. (Does anybody remember carburetors?). Modern cars, which make up the majority on the market today, use a throttle pedal assembly that is connected to the engine only electronically. Signals are carried over wires to the engine management computer, which in turn sends electrical impulses to the stepper motor that actually controls the throttle blades.
Sounds like there are plenty of places for gremlins to seize control of the works, right? And that's where pundits who don't really understand the architecture of throttle-by-wire systems go wrong. It's all in the engineering.
Continued>
Toyota’s “black box” information is now emerging as a critical legal issue amid the recall of 8 million vehicles by the world’s largest automaker.
The Company said that the devices record data from five seconds before until two seconds after an air bag is deployed in a crash, in an answer to AP when it asked Toyota to comment on what is stored in its recorders.
Toyota has also maintained that it shared EDR information with government regulators
Sikes, whose 2008 Toyota Prius accelerated suddenly on a California interstate Monday, reaching 94 MPH before he was able to bring it under control with the help of the California Highway Patrol, said the cause of the incident was a "stuck" accelerator.