Alexander McQueen, Jan Baalsrud, and the Order of the British Empire

What does late Alexander McQueen and a Norwegian fighter from WWII era, Jan Baalsrud, have in common? They are both affiliated with the Order of the British Empire. However, the fashion designer held the title of the Commander of the Order, while the Norwegian commando was made a mere Member (lowest rank). I figure most people are somewhat familiar with McQueen's distinguished service for the benefit of the British nation, so let me shed some light on the significantly less known Mr.Baalsrud.

en.wikipedia.org...

In early 1943, he, three other commandos and the boat crew of eight, all Norwegians, embarked on a dangerous mission to destroy a German air control tower and recruit for the resistance movement. This mission was compromised when he and his fellow soldiers, seeking a trusted resistance contact, accidentally made contact with an unaligned civilian shopkeeper of the same name as their contact who betrayed them to the Germans.

The morning after their blunder, on March 29, their fishing boat The Brattholm – containing 8 tons of explosives intended to destroy the air control tower – was attacked by a German vessel. The Norwegians scuttled their boat by detonating the 8 tons of explosive using a time delay fuse, and fled in a small boat; however the small boat was promptly sunk by the Nazis.

Jan and others swam ashore in ice cold arctic waters. Jan was the only soldier to evade capture and, soaking wet and missing one sea boot, he escaped up into a snow gully, where he shot and killed the leading German Gestapo officer with his pistol. He evaded capture for roughly two months, suffering from frostbite and snow blindness. His deteriorating physical condition forced him to rely on the assistance of Norwegian patriots. It was during this time in a wooden hut at Revdal, which he called Hotel Savoy, that Jan was forced to operate on his feet with a pocket knife. He believed that he had blood poisoning and that drawing the blood of would help. Not long after that Jan was left on a high plateau on a stretcher in the snow for eighteen days due to weather and Nazi patrols in the town of Mandal, his life hanging by a thread. It was during this time while he lay behind a snow wall built round a rock to shelter him that Jan amputated nine of his toes to stop the spread of gangrene to his feet, which saved them. After that it was thanks to the efforts of his fellow Norwegians that Jan was transported by stretcher towards the border with Finland. Then he was put in the care of some Lapps Sami (the native tribe of the Scandinavian arctic) who with reindeer pulled him on a sled across Finland and into neutral Sweden, where he was safe at last. From Saarikoski in northern Sweden he was collected by a seaplane of the Red Cross and flown to Boden.

He spent seven months in a Swedish hospital in Boden before he was flown back to Britain in a de Havilland Mosquito aircraft of the RAF. He soon went to Scotland to help train other Norwegian patriots who were going back to Norway to continue the fight against the Germans. However, the damage suffered during his escape from Norway left him disabled, and he never returned to active duty.

My honest question here is: what's up with the Order of the British Empire? A tough and selfless soldier who bled in the fight against the Nazis in unimaginable conditions, and ended up with severe permanent injuries, gets a lesser recognition that a modern day couturier, who in all likelihood led a pretty comfortable life, which he elected to end by his own hand.

IMHO, a disgrace.


[edit on 2-3-2010 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by buddhasystem


I dont know. Maybe us British folk have gone soft.
There's a lot of inspiring story's of war time heroic's, and V.C. Medal winner's, but at the end of the day, and we may be at war but in comparison to WW2, it's not as harsh (more political, more than anything) but I also think, if we were in a new war, on a large'r scale, we'd have people who'd rise to the job that they have to do.
Also, the emulation of Celebrity's and such is to blame for being soft.
I dont really want to pick on them but, look at morden day footballer's for example. Year's ago, they'd be down the mine's, finish work, then have a game, then go to the pub. Yet today - Sky high wage's, pamperd life style's and other than kicking a football around to justify there wage's, what else do they do?

I figure many entertainers in the UK received knighthood... and that was always specious to me. You can be a rock star, but what do imperial values have to do with it? Brits on this board, please comment.

You might want to stop the Alexander McQueen bashing, which you are doing!

He was and will always be a fashion icon. You dont know what he has done with his life! Whatever ever status he had in this group he probably earned and deserved! Leave the McQueen bashing off ATS, there is no conspiracy with him. He lived a life none of us could ever imagine and it's sad he took his own life but we will never know the pain he was going through that brought him to take his own life. Let the dead rest in peace!


McQueen will always be my Queen

Yes I am a huge fan of his so I take your "disgrace" statement personally!


edit: here is a LIST of celebrities who have been brought into this order

Celebs of the Order of the British Empire


[edit on 3/2/2010 by mblahnikluver]

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
You might want to stop the Alexander McQueen bashing, which you are doing!

Where exactly did I bash Mr.McQueen? Please be specific.

He was and will always be a fashion icon.

Well yes, did I say otherwise?

You dont know what he has done with his life!

Please educate me.

Whatever ever status he had in this group he probably earned and deserved!

Probably? Can you be more specific?

He lived a life none of us could ever imagine

That's very likely!

And.. what do you think about that Norwegian soldier who barely survived a fight with the Nazis in freezing conditions? Who had to cut off his toes to prevent the spread of gangrene? Can you "ever" imagine this?

reply to post by mblahnikluver


haha wow... its posts like this that make me realize the values in society today are backasswards.

Cheers

Honours are given for a variety of reasons, from Valour in Battle through to service to the community. They vary according to different criteria and most certainly are affected by the period of history in which they were awarded!

Lee Alexander McQueen would have been nominated for an award, anyone can do this there is a form available, probably on the basis of his work in the fashion area and the resulting increase in British stature in the fashion industry and the financial benefits for the UK economy arising. That's no mean feat to be solely responsible for that level of achievement and is indicative of the mostly peaceful times in which we live. I wish my career was as noticeable and successful!

Those who quite rightly won honours or were mentioned in despatches for military service in different conflicts are no less deserving, it's just their efforts where for very different things, in a very different world to the one we live in now.

Even today young men and women serving in UK Forces win medals for valour, exemplary service, and long service. This is also no less honourable or valid than those awarded to celebrities, civil servants, or ordinary members of the community.

A former work colleague of mine, by no a way a friend, won an award for long service to the St John Ambulance, for the many hours of service he gave freely to the community, for the work he did training people without reward or the expectation of reward. Now as a person I didn't get on with him at all, but I respected his service and dedication to his work with the St John Ambulance. Oddly he wouldn't accept my congratulations and thought I had some sort of agenda, but some people are just odd at times.

Originally posted by Rob37n
Lee Alexander McQueen would have been nominated for an award, anyone can do this there is a form available, probably on the basis of his work in the fashion area and the resulting increase in British stature in the fashion industry and the financial benefits for the UK economy arising.

For an award of this caliber (Order of the British Empire) it would be nice to quantify the said benefits. I'm sure there were some.

That's no mean feat to be solely responsible for that level of achievement and is indicative of the mostly peaceful times in which we live.

I certainly agree that his God-given gift was considerable. I also don't think that battling Nazis in frozen Scandinavia is some kind of mean feat.

reply to post by buddhasystem


To be fair there is a pretty obvious difference between the two:

One was a British fashion icon spreading fashion and art and all that lot to millions of British people, and winning International Designer of the Year, a rather prestigious (albeit non-life-threatening) award.

and the second:

A Norwegian who got hurt in Norway fighting Germans who had invaded Norway. He then went to Scotland to train other Norwegians to fight Germans in Norway.

If he was British, he'd have got a Victoria Cross. A nation's honours are to honour its citizens or foreigners who have greatly benefited the nation. It is not the duty of a nation to recognise the bravery of foreign soldiers' acts of insane bravery on their own soil. The very fact that it happens, as in this case, is testament enough to the bravery of the soldier involved.

Jan Baalsrud was a total badass of the highest calibre. Don't get me wrong. He just happened to be Norwegian and in Norway.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by davesidious]

reply to post by buddhasystem


The two things are different, plus McQueen got a CBE which is different to an OBE.

McQueen's achievement in a financial sense leads to income generated abroad by people buying into his fashion lines, that generates wealth for the UK economy. Wealth is also generated by an increase in tourism, his work inspires others to study in the UK at different fashion schools, his success increases work for various UK based magazines which brings employment from editors to printers to helping out newsagents selling the magazines.

I would in no way discount anyone who fought the Nazi's in WWII from the heroes in the thick of it to the people back home fighting on the home front. At least the Norwegians and the British turned up on time. There are plenty of people in WWII who performed incredible acts of bravery, many of whom were honoured.

You're comparing two different things and trying to match completely different acts in different era's. That doesn't work, it's a ridiculous argument. If you're that upset by the fact send back your OBE, or refuse to accept it if you're lucky enough to be offered one!

reply to post by davesidious


I'm sorry but your argument doesn't quite hold water: if you scroll down that page: en.wikipedia.org...

... you'll see that there are plenty of foreign nationals whose achievements happened nowhere near British soil. Examples include footballers from Brazil and violinists from Netherlands.

reply to post by buddhasystem


You should read my post again I know lots of foreigners get honours from the UK. I said as much. I did, however, state that for a soldier to get any such honour is fantastic as it is, as the main purpose of these honours are to honour British people. If Britain had to hand out honours for every foreign soldier in foreign wars, the list would be endless, and would lessen the honour itself.

It is up to Norway to bestow honours on Norwegian soldiers fighting in Norway. And they did - he got the St Olav's medal.

p.s. That "footballer from Brazil", btw, is Pelé, for crying out loud! It's like calling Jesus "That fisherman from Nazareth"

Originally posted by davesidious
If Britain had to hand out honours for every foreign soldier in foreign wars, the list would be endless, and would lessen the honour itself.

Well look, nobody said "every foreign soldier". I thought we were clear that we talk of totally exceptional ones

As to lessening the honour... I guess this point was motivation for my OP -- when lingerie designers and footballers receive higher state honours than wounded hero commandos, I can't think of another word but "lessen".

It is up to Norway to bestow honours on Norwegian soldiers fighting in Norway. And they did - he got the St Olav's medal.

Sure, fair enough.


[edit on 2-3-2010 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by buddhasystem


The soldier got a state honour from a completely different country. Your point would make sense if Alexander McQueen got a state honour from Norway, but he didn't.

It is exceptional for a foreign soldier, even from an allied, to get a state honour.

Originally posted by davesidious
It is exceptional for a foreign soldier, even from an allied, to get a state honour.

But not for a foreign footballer? Sorry, I don't want to be splitting hair here. You argument was quite fair, there are things I don't get and that's that.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Pelé is no ordinary football player. He is regarded as the best there has ever been, so good in fact that the Nigerian civil war was put on hold for 2 days so both sides could watch him play football in Lagos. He has also performed tireless work for the poor children of Brazil, and for the UN. He is a living official national treasure of Brazil. Surely skill and dedication like that is worthy of honour. And he's the only foreign footballer to get it, so it's not exactly common.