"The Hole In the Ozone" and its Effects - My Presentation for ATS

Well, I spent a couple of years down on Australian Antarctic bases in the early seventies, and this ozone story goes back to at least those days.

The growing ozone hole was first noticed in the northern hemisphere.
Scientists theorized that it was probably caused by the new and very large high flying intercontinental jet airliners dumping exhaust into the upper atmosphere.

There is a vast amount of high altitude jet air traffic in North America and Europe, and the amount of jet fuel consumed boggles the mind.

Anyhow, part of our scientific program at the Antarctic bases was to measure the thickness of the ozone layer, using infrared absorption of sunlight which the ozone layer blocks at some very specific infrared wavelengths.

The idea was to compare ozone thickness measurements in the northern hemispere with ozone thickness measurements in the southern hemisphere, to "prove" the "jet fuel" theory. There was minimal high altitude air traffic in the southern hemisphere back then.

The results absolutely stunned the scientific world. There was an even bigger ozone hole growing down south, and it was growing even faster than the ozone hole in the northern hemisphere.

Almost forty years later, we definitely have a huge problem with this.

The ozone layer shields us from deadly skin cancer causing ultraviolet radiation from the sun, that can be ultimately lethal to most life.
Kind of like a big ultraviolet sterilizer.

This UV radiation, along with many other types of particles and radiation from the sun is continually changing, and solar flares and CME's do generate some pretty powerful bursts of UV, which the ozone layer used to block.

The ozone hole is only one problem.
Losing it creates a UV threat to every living thing.

The weakening earth's magnetic field is not related to the ozone layer, but the magnetosphere too is part of our protective shield against some of the more energetic electrically charged high energy particles. These pose more of a threat to our technology than to us (directly).

But we are definitely going to see a very great increases in eye problems and skin cancer (melanoma) as the ozone layer thins.

And like the global warming hoax, I believe the ozone layer problem has a cosmic origin, rather than flourocarbons that science says is the problem.

Companies like Dupont have made astronomical profits by having laws introduced to ban certain refrigerants, and introduce others. The cynic in me says it too was all a money making hoax.

Nature is doing some bad things to us right now, but some corrupt and greedy people with only a profit motive are not helping in all this.

[edit on 1/3/2010 by Silver Shadow]

reply to post by Silver Shadow


Thank you for your addition to the thread, I appreciate it.

Can you confirm the data (I know you said it was back in the 70's) by any chance (or compare from your findings), from the OP?

It would be nice to hear from someone with first hand experience in the hole in the ozone issue line up things in the OP to what they found in the 70's. The info in the OP starts (well most of it) in the 1980's so it would be helpful.

After re reading the original post again more carefully, I see nothing there that conflicts with any of my own understanding or knowledge of the problem.
You have made a masterly presentation of this, well done !

It seems that awareness that something odd was going on with the northern ozone layer, probably started around 1970 or even earlier.
But there was probably minimal reliable data of ozone thickness on which to base any theory.

We just started taking some daily routine measurements with very specialized optical equipment, as part of the general scientific program at the base, and I was personally involved in doing that.

I guess the data we collected formed part of some serious scientific study a few years later, that led to scientific papers being presented, and official recognition of the ozone hole problem.

That is probably why the "discovery" was made much later than when I became involved.

[edit on 1/3/2010 by Silver Shadow]

reply to post by Silver Shadow


This reminds me of a thought I had many years ago about the connection between these observed ozone holes in Earth's atmosphere and the magnetosphere, Earth's magnetic field.

Is there a connection between Earth's magnetic field and ozone?

The weakening earth's magnetic field is not related to the ozone layer...

I found it interesting that ozone holes are being observed above the poles along with a weakening of Earth's magnetic field in these same locations. I don't think there are a lot of refrigerants being used at the North and South poles and I had a difficult time believing that CFC's were somehow gathering above the polar regions from all over the world and causing these observed effects.

Magnetic flux lines congregate at the poles and if there are problems in the Earth's magnetic field, spread out over the globe, these problems would also congregate at the polar regions. I do not have any explanation to a possible connection between CFC's, ozone and magnetic fields but I do believe that this should be looked at closer.
Could it be possible that electricity from our global electric grid is part of this problem?

And like the global warming hoax...

I'm confused by this statement, I have seen it here and again elsewhere yet I fail to understand what people really mean by this.

Are you insinuating that the rising temperatures of the Earth is a hoax?

Or maybe the hoax part is claiming humans are responsible?

I feel that both of these observed effects (ozone holes and weakening magnetic field) are caused by a solar/cosmic phenomena but at the same time I see no hoax except maybe in claiming that human pollution is the sole cause. Regardless of the cause I wonder why it is so important for people to pollute the Earth on which they live. Can we not get along without burning coal and oil?

Originally posted by Devino
Are you insinuating that the rising temperatures of the Earth is a hoax?

Or maybe the hoax part is claiming humans are responsible?

Yes, people are talking about the hoax that humans are responsible for climate change. This is widespread news, even covered by the MSM. After leaked climate emails which were shown to falsify data were shown all the pieces started coming together (or more so fall apart).

Basically, no one really knows the complete facts at this point in time (that I'm aware of) since numbers we made up to go along with theories, where is the real scientific data? No where because it was being made up, therefore I find it hard to believe anyone can pull something out of thin air and claim it to be true... please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of this (I do know climate-gate was a real hoax though that is for certain).

And I really don't know how much I want to get into the magnetosphere and the ozone having any correlation with each other since people are ready to pounce on anyone trying to put any facts together... heck, I didn't even try too and I was somewhat attacked about my OP so go figure

[edit on 1-3-2010 by highlyoriginal]

Yes, the global warming phenomena was based on deliberately FALSIFIED data.
This shocking scientific scandal has ruined many careers, and is now all over the internet.

First it was global warming, but you never hear that term anymore.

Now it is "climate change", because the figures actually show a very slight cooling effect, not warming !!
Now, some people are predicting a coming ice age. Go figure.
That is very different to global warming.

The earth's magnetic field causes any electrically charged particles from the sun to be deflected away towards the poles. These particles can only enter the upper atmosphere at high latitudes, and are what causes the Aurora Borealis around the northern pole, and Aurora Australis around the southern pole.

But as the earth's magnetic field weakens, these particles will probably then be able to head towards the earth in a more direct path. The main problems these particles cause is a disruption to the ionosphere, that is a vital part of non satellite long distance radio communications.

The magnetosphere is a MAGNETIC field that influences charged PARTICLES.

The ozone layer is a layer of GAS that influences electromagnetic RADIATION, mainly in the ultraviolet spectrum.

The two really have nothing in common, except that they are both going through dramatic changes..

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
The two really have nothing in common, except that they are both going through dramatic changes..

Agreed, unless someone can provide data proving otherwise.

They both also can cause massive problems for the earth and the people/animals/plants that live on it.

UV rays are no good, and neither is radiation... and no one wants communication to get knocked out either, although it would be sort of neat to see what the world would be like without the communication networks we're all so used to these days. I'm not saying I wish it to happen, I'm just stating it would be intriguing to see how people would react.

Maybe it's time to get some cans and some string together? Lots and lots of string?

The earth's magnetic field is weakening and will reverse.
It has done this in the past many times before.
So I believe that the effects of going through zero during the (magnetic) pole flip will be quite rapid.

But the ozone hole problem is something a bit more worrying.
That effect may reverse too, but I don't think anyone really knows for sure what the real cause of it is.

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
Yes, people are talking about the hoax that humans are responsible for climate change.

OK, that's good because that is what I assumed. I can imagine that this could very well be a hoax and to be quite honest I have not been following the news on this.
As far as global warming goes, it is hard to dispute the images of glacial and polar ice melting. There is a lot of good evidence showing a slight increase in the average overall temperatures around the world in species relocation/migrations, El Niño current changes, global/glacial ice melting and rising sea levels/temps. Even if there is solid proof that information has been falsified in favor of man made global warming there is still plenty of information showing a warming trend.

So what then are we left with?

Is the Earth actually warming?

If I were to take a guess I would say that this physical evidence is indicating a global warming trend. The Earth, as well as our solar system and our galaxy, follows a set balance due to cosmic forces many of which are still unknown by science. A global warming can very well cause a reaction and turn into a global freeze.

I really don't know how much I want to get into the magnetosphere and the ozone having any correlation with each other since people are ready to pounce on anyone trying to put any facts together.

I can understand your point here, however, I am interested in possible correlations between life on the Earth and our Sun.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
The magnetosphere is a MAGNETIC field that influences charged PARTICLES.

The ozone layer is a layer of GAS that influences electromagnetic RADIATION, mainly in the ultraviolet spectrum.

The two really have nothing in common, except that they are both going through dramatic changes..

They are both going through dramatic changes in the same locations, at the same time and caused by [edit: or rather effected by] the same thing (our Sun) so I would say that they have a lot in common. Ozone holes and localized magnetic fluctuations are also appearing at other areas besides the polar regions.This may be coincidental but is there any data showing any possible overlapping progression of these two events in these locations?

[edit on 3/1/2010 by Devino]

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
I believe that the effects of going through zero during the (magnetic) pole flip will be quite rapid.

We have been told that an inversion of the Earth's magnetic poles could take thousands of years for total completion yet I don't see evidence in favor of this claim. In fact the Sun's magnetic poles also flip and have done so recently and is expected to happen again real soon.

It has been a while since I looked at this information so I just did a quick Google for, Solar magnetic flip, and thought you might be interested in this information.
This is an 11 year cycle that happened on February 2001 which took about 2 weeks to complete and will happen again in 2012.

My point is I think it careless to dismiss any possible connection between these events. They are most certainly connected in some way but that doesn't mean one is a cause for the other.

[edit on 3/1/2010 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino


The breach in the magnetosphere wasn't recorded at the poles, in fact it was about four times the size of earth.

This article explains more:

science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Chadwickus

I believe we are looking at a multitude of reactions to an unknown action or series of actions. Energy from the Sun to Earth in the form of EM radiation, Solar wind (ion radiation), CME's and magnetic interference is influencing the Earth in many ways.

We are told that the Earth's magnetic field is caused by a spinning liquid/solid iron core but what part does the Sun play in this?

I believe that the solar wind/pressure causes a reaction with the Spinning Earth creating our magnetosphere. In the same way cosmic radiation has an effect on our Sun's magnetosphere, these effects are translated down to Earth and are therefore all connected. Keep in mind that our Sun is also rotating as well as our Galaxy. These rotations are not in the same direction (solar/galactic) as we are for the most part upside down to the galactic rotation. It might be possible that this retrograde rotation is about to inverse (become pro-grade) as we make our way around the Milky Way.

Cosmologists are now in fairly complete agreement about the electrical nature of the cosmos. For hundreds of years astronomers were baffled why comet tails always pointed away from the sun, and not towards the sun as gravitational forces would suggest they should.

As you say, the sun's magnetic field has already inverted, and it looks like ours is about to follow. The magnetic poles of the earth have been weakening and moving ever more rapidly from their original locations. Magnetometer readings show that the magnetic variations around the earth are also changing.

These effects are speeding up, and the whole process may only take a few decades, not thousands of years. That is really an eye blink compared to geological time.

It could be that the molten core of the earth is going through a few spasms, and crustal shift is causing a few serious quakes and quite likely some coming volcanic activity.

To say that all of this is being caused by cows farting, or escaped refrigerant gas is stretching credibility to the limit.

reply to post by Silver Shadow[/url]

[...]
The weakening earth's magnetic field is not related to the ozone layer, but the magnetosphere too is part of our protective shield against some of the more energetic electrically charged high energy particles. These pose more of a threat to our technology than to us (directly).

But we are definitely going to see a very great increases in eye problems and skin cancer (melanoma) as the ozone layer thins.

And like the global warming hoax, I believe the ozone layer problem has a cosmic origin, rather than flourocarbons that science says is the problem.

Companies like Dupont have made astronomical profits by having laws introduced to ban certain refrigerants, and introduce others. The cynic in me says it too was all a money making hoax.

Nature is doing some bad things to us right now, but some corrupt and greedy people with only a profit motive are not helping in all this.

by observation, we can tell the ozone layer is still performing quite well...

If It Wasn't, then there would be the appearance of 'Northern Lights'
at any latitude and at any time here on Earth.

The magnetosphere at the two poles have always had 'holes' in the ozone layer, for as long as scientists were able to measure and 'see' the ozone layer from space. i suspect the ozone itself repells itself away from these two polar vortices.

whenever the Earth orbits into a ion storm or solar flare remnants,
the resulting Auroras are signs for the population to take precautions, which arctic circle tribesmen would do upon the advice of the shaman.


If you ever had a electric train set, popular from the 1930-1950s
you could smell the ozone which came from the electric motor and the oil on the tracks... so that source of ozone creation is long lost.
Also, the electric trolly cars & trains in big cities, used to arc & spark lots of ozone on any given day, but over time- AC diesel busses- have since doomed the electric trolly



[edit on 1-3-2010 by St Udio]

Originally posted by Devino

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
I believe that the effects of going through zero during the (magnetic) pole flip will be quite rapid.

We have been told that an inversion of the Earth's magnetic poles could take thousands of years for total completion yet I don't see evidence in favor of this claim.

Actually what the evidence shows is that the progression toward a zero magnetic field of Earth takes many thousands of years, but after the flip, the process of returning to a higher field strength is, relatively speaking, much quicker.

I posted details, evidence, and a link with even more information, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by highlyoriginal


Very nice presentation, highlyoriginal, star and flag!

Originally posted by Devino
If I were to take a guess I would say that this physical evidence is indicating a global warming trend. The Earth, as well as our solar system and our galaxy, follows a set balance due to cosmic forces many of which are still unknown by science. A global warming can very well cause a reaction and turn into a global freeze.

Well actually some scientists are now saying the earth is slightly cooling (funny it's the exact opposite of what people have been saying for years now).

Copenhagen climate change summit: The world is COOLING not warming says scientist Peter Taylor ... and we're not prepared

Like a magician who fools themselves but not audience, the Anthropomorphic Global Warming (AGW) lobby have identified the wrong problem and the wrong solution.

Global cooling threatens disaster for humanity in the developed and developing world alike, yet the media and the scientific consensus ignores this peril.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... ed.html#ixzz0gxhwQwmD

Read the full article here

There's plenty of info out there on this just google it

I'm no scientist, but I do do a lot of researching and I am sort of confused, as many others are as well, on the whole thing. Yes the glaciers are starting to melt, but then again I want to bring some personal experience in here... I live in Pennsylvania, right outside of Philly, and in the past few weeks we've had multiple blizzards. Now I'm not saying that is definitive proof that the world is cooling what so ever, but I have to tell you all that this is the worst winter I've seen since, I believe it was, 1996. I was pretty young, I remember the blizzard was so bad the snow covered cars, and was literally as high as our fence (I forget how tall it was).

It's now March and there is still tons of snow on the ground, although it's supposed to warm up this coming week, I still have a feeling we're in for some more snow before Spring and this is definitely a late winter for us to be having such horrible snow fall. I'll try and find the total amount of inches of snow accumulation for this winter and post it up when I get a chance.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by highlyoriginal]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks for the link Arbitrageur, I have often questioned how the intensity of magnetism can be detected over millions of years.
From your link in that other thread;

rocks can preserve information about the palaeointensity (literally, ancient intensity) of the Earth's magnetic field. Effectively, the stronger the magnetizing field, the stronger the rock's magnetisation will be.

From this I wondered how accurate the scale over time could be. Since the field strength of the Earth's magnetism effects the intensity in these rock samples how can we be sure data like this hasn't been tainted along with the changing palaeointensity. The magnetic intensities of these rock samples are not locked in from their inception so they are all subject to changes from multiple sources.
Then I read this...

In practice, reliable measurements of absolute palaeointensity can be quite tricky*.

and with it the foot note located below...

*The magnetic behaviour of a sample in response to fields applied over timescales of maybe a few minutes in the lab might be very different to its response over the thousands or tens of thousand of years that it might take to be magnetised in the wild. Problems with complex magnetic mineralogy, and overprints, and possible thermal alteration during the experiments, are also rife.

The information is still valuable.

However, although absolute values would be nice, we're actually most interested in relative changes in the strength of the field over time.

I would agree with your assessment from this for the length of a magnetic reversal and I appreciate this bit of information but this is still subject to a fairly large margin of error due to Earth's dynamic magnetic field, geo-thermal heating, mineral deposits and overlapping sediments. It appears that they found the evidence that they were looking for, a very slow change of the Earth's magnetic poles, yet this doesn't answer these other questions.

How did the Sun's magnetic pole reverse so quickly?

Is Earth's magnetic field influenced by the Sun's energy and does stellar reversals effect the Earth's field?

Does this also effect the other planets?

I guess the overall question is what is the nature of celestial magnetic fields and how do they influence each other?

Edit; Source of information

[edit on 3/1/2010 by Devino]

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
Well actually some scientists are now saying the earth is slightly cooling (funny it's the exact opposite of what people have been saying for years now).

Yes some of the leaked information suggested that was some of the data they didn't want to publicize too much!
I don't know if I believe everything this site has to say but they did quote this article in "The Australian":

www.iceagenow.com...

18 Apr 09 – “Ice is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap,” says this article in The Australian.

“The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

Originally posted by Devino
I guess the overall question is what is the nature of celestial magnetic fields and how do they influence each other?

Study electromagnetism, I have, and I have no reason to believe there is any significant interaction between the sun's and Earth's magnetic fields, especially with respect to the sun causing the Earth's field to flip. We know in general what causes the fields (in the case of Earth is the movement of iron and nickel) but I've never seen a good explanation proven on how and why the poles flip for the sun or the Earth, though this scientist has a computer model demonstrating the flip, which I'm not sure I completely trust but it's the best evidence I've seen yet:

www.scientificamerican.com...

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Arbitrageur]

True, but the magnetic field of the sun has definitely reversed, and it did not take thousands of years to do it either.

Now something really freaky is going on with the earth's magnetic field. It is weakening, and may reverse also.

The ancient Greeks thought they new absolutely everything there was to know about science.
I doubt if we do either..........

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The problem I have really is that because of the hoax with the falsified data, I don't know what to believe anymore. People don't know what to think because one scientist says this and another say this...

And then we have the government saying whatever they want trying to keep everything out of the MSM except this time around this hoax actually made it onto fox news and such, except it died VERY quickly (the story about the hoax). And then back to the fear mongering and such and everyone forgets.

If Americans, and the rest of the world would wake up to that fact we were lied to so we'd 'go green' because we caused all this damage then I'm sure people would be a lot more pissed off. Al Gore should be looked down upon everyone, he lied to make money just like every other politician but he got away with basically because no one seems to talk about it nor care that he had the biggest role basically in all of this.

I'm not trying to sidetrack my own thread here, but I just thought I had to mention this stuff because people deserve to know that while they were being told to go green, they were being forced to buy oil at very high prices as well.

So now you buy your hybrid car, while spending tons of money on oil still (not just for your car, but for heat, and for many other things that still require oil) so basically it was a win-win situation for MANY people. I find it very messed up and disturbing...