The problem with Pagans

The past

The whole nation of the Gauls is greatly devoted to ritual observances, and for that reason those who are smitten with the more grievous maladies and who are engaged in the perils of battle either sacrifice human victims or vow so to do, employing the druids as ministers for such sacrifices. They believe, in effect, that, unless for a man's life a man's life be paid, the majesty of the immortal gods may not be appeased; and in public, as in private life they observe an ordinance of sacrifices of the same kind. Others use figures of immense size whose limbs, woven out of twigs, they fill with living men and set on fire, and the men perish in a sheet of flame. They believe that the execution of those who have been caught in the act of theft or robbery or some crime is more pleasing to the immortal gods; but when the supply of such fails they resort to the execution even of the innocent.

www.bilderberg.org...

mysterious - evidence is supplied by Tollund Man. The body of Tollund Man was found in 1950 in a Danish peat bog, where - like the Gundestrup Cauldron - it had been preserved since the 1st century BC. Tollund Man was about 40; he was stripped naked and garrotted before his body was laid to rest in the bog. Examination of his stomach contents found a wide variety of different grains, suggesting a ritual last meal. There were also traces of ergot, a highly toxic mould found on rye. If Tollund Man was the victim of ergot poisoning ('ergotism') he would have suffered convulsions and hallucinations. It may be that this ergot-induced trance state was part of a ritual sacrifice.

Tollund Man was not the only victim. Other bog bodies have been found in Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, Ireland - and Britain. In 1984, a 2000-year-old body was found in a peat bog in Cheshire: Lindow Man. This time the signs of human sacrifice were unmistakable. Lindow Man had been struck on the head, strangled and had his throat cut, perhaps to drain the body of blood. He was young, fit and well-groomed, suggesting high social status. There was no ergot in his stomach; but there were traces of mistletoe, suggesting a definite druidical connection

What horrors. Sure makes me glad that the pagans were were so appauling in nature that nearly every other religon then encountered thought they needed to be eradicated.

Tacitus describes both animal and human sacrifice. He identifies the chief Germanic god with the Roman Mercury, who on certain days receives human sacrifices, while gods identified by Tacitus with Hercules and Mars receive animal sacrifice.

en.wikipedia.org...

So obsessed with death. Killing in the name of their god how disgusting. Do they have no respect for human life? It seems to me that they were nothing more than animals preying on those unfortunate enough to get in their way.

And lets not forget the roman pagans. Before Rome adopted christianity they embraced pagan faiths. Surely that means they were peaceful tolerance mongors right? Wrong. . .

Roman soldiers were well known for slaughtering all men, women, and children in conquered towns. Roman soldiers slaughtered the lucky prisoners. The survivors were brutally crucified or forced to fight against wild beasts and each other in arenas, much to the delight of the blood thirsty Romans.

hillebrandtechnologies.com...

Human sacrifice in one form or another was common to all pagan societies. A very large number of these sacrifices involved women. They were thrown into rivers or lakes (to appease these vital sources of life), buried alive in the foundations of bridges (to make the bridge strong), or just offered as sacrifice to the gods for the protection of the community.

all this killing in the name of god is disgusting. We must repress this horrid religion and not allow it regain a foot hold in our society. Your women and children do not deserve to be taken and sacrificed to appease a god. Or become lunch for some pagan cannibal.

Let us look at some of their texts to see if we can find some sort of peace or tolerance

From the Gardnerian Book of Shadows from the section titled "Power"

Power flashes forth from newly shed blood, instead of exuding slowly as by our method. The victim's terror and anguish add keenness, and even quite a small animal can yield enormous power.The great difficulty is in the human mind controlling the power of the lower animal mind. But sorcerers claim they have methods for effecting this and that the difficulty disappears the higher her the animal used, and when the victim is human disappears entirely.

Hmm no peace and love yet I'm afraid. Perhaps in another book.

Excerpt from At The Heart of Darkness: Witchcraft, Black Magic and Satanism Today by John Parker

to be 100 percent effective there would have to be a human sacrifice. It is said that the oldest and frailest member of the coven volunteered to die during the ritual, set for what proved to be the coldest May night in many years. According to Francis King, ...all but the frail old man had covered their bodies with an ointment, which was in reality a heavy grease used among other things to keep the body warm. The coven was also known to use an hallucinogen, the fly agaric mushroom, which could be eaten only in exceedingly small does...The old volunteer duly collapsed and died

Sacking old men how deplorable. I come to you now ATS members. Join me in my fight to continue the supression and belittlement of this appauling religion. Maybe we should sacrifice a few pagans in the name of reductionism or science. Scientist always need a brain to disect. Pagans are so ready to offer up sacrifices so lets just start with them.

Now some of you ATS will understand that this is all bs. Its just random info i scooped off the net and compiled. I do not hate pagans or fear them for their past. I wanted to make the point that anyone can point the finger and make huge sweeping statements that encompass an entire lot of people. I have nothing but respect and hope for peoples of all religions. All I want is the same kind of treatment from the same people i respect and hope for. Is it so much to ask that if you expect tolerance from me your going to have to show me the same courtesy?

Stop bashing your neighbor. Stop fearing the past. Stop the sweeping statements and stereotyping. Embrace your brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all flawed but most of us are good people. Let's start loving each other. Let's work towards a respectful future. A future united under a banner of humanity and love. Where labels like christian, pagan, muslim, buddhist, etc. are obsolete. And above all else lets DENY IGNORANCE.

CW





[edit on 27-2-2010 by constantwonder]

I'm most interested to see how many people only read part of the OP before they go on flaming me for being so judgemental

You probably should've started out pointing out that you weren't being totally serious. Also your title should be something about fingerpinting, not be fingerpointing itself...

Your point gets completely lost because these things are all trueish. You make no point about every world religion doing these thigns or anything like that; you just suddenly switch what you're saying to "love your neighbor" out of nowhere.

So obsessed with death. Killing in the name of their god how disgusting. Do they have no respect for human life? It seems to me that they were nothing more than animals preying on those unfortunate enough to get in their way.

Read Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament there...

There are a couple of major flaws to this(and I understand your point, but much of this is still false):
1)Pagan is a term than encompasses countless earth-based religions. So to say 'pagans do this' or 'pagans did that' is a ridiculously overgeneralized statement.

2)Most pagan sects do not have 'a god', so therefore killing in the name of god doesnt fit.

3)satanism is not pagan, it is christian.

4)The bit about Romans is laughable.

5)Many did not, and do not, practice ritual sacrifice. Therefore, the statement that sacrifice is common to all pagans is a flat out lie.


Like I said, I see what you are getting at, but passing off flat out lies, half-truths, etc, and taking examples of christianity and twisting it as pagan does not help make your point.
Truly, deny ignorance.

Nice try. But pagan is a massive umbrella term, more massive then Christianity. Any non-Christian, Jew, or Islam falls under the pagan category.
So actually, your descriptions should include the cannibalism in Africa from some small tribe, to the suicide rites in Asia, to the clubbing of a neighbor clan from a cave man, over a piece of meat.
This includes, buddhists, Hindus, that guy in Wisconsin who worships rocking chairs.

Fact is, there hasn't been any sacrifices made in quite some time. When was the last pagan sacrifice?

But pretty much anybody living during those times, was killing somebody. It is called progress. The only point you made is that pagans can grow and adapt, how come others can't? I haven't heard of pagans bombing abortion clinics lately. Or knocking on doors. In fact, most prefer to keep to themselves, and like it that way. How many religions right now can claim the same?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Nice try. But pagan is a massive umbrella term, more massive then Christianity. Any non-Christian, Jew, or Islam falls under the pagan category.
So actually, your descriptions should include the cannibalism in Africa from some small tribe, to the suicide rites in Asia, to the clubbing of a neighbor clan from a cave man, over a piece of meat.
This includes, buddhists, Hindus, that guy in Wisconsin who worships rocking chairs.

Fact is, there hasn't been any sacrifices made in quite some time. When was the last pagan sacrifice?

But pretty much anybody living during those times, was killing somebody. It is called progress. The only point you made is that pagans can grow and adapt, how come others can't? I haven't heard of pagans bombing abortion clinics lately. Or knocking on doors. In fact, most prefer to keep to themselves, and like it that way. How many religions right now can claim the same?

Did you read the entire post? It's SATIRE meant to insight a gut reaction against it. It is an effort to show that garbage like that is ineffective and makes the OP out to look like a hate mongoring intolerant arrogant ass.

IT WORKED DIDN'T IT

reply to post by constantwonder


It's not satire. Satire needs to be clever.

Originally posted by Solasis
reply to post by constantwonder

 

It's not satire. Satire needs to be clever.

True I can agree with that. But it was meant to be blunt. It isn't supposed to be witty or fun or accurate. It's not meant to be an effective argument against pagans.

Originally posted by constantwonder

Originally posted by Solasis
reply to post by constantwonder

 

It's not satire. Satire needs to be clever.

True I can agree with that. But it was meant to be blunt. It isn't supposed to be witty or fun or accurate. It's not meant to be an effective argument against pagans.

So what is the point then? That if you scream lies loud enough, someone will believe them?

reply to post by constantwonder


You're not helping ...

That is all.

reply to post by constantwonder


I understand what you are getting at but the modern pagan movement is not proseletising. Modern Xtianity is however a different thing with many public figures coming out as Xtians and offering opinion on everything and anything.


We can all make comments about ancient pagans as we can ancient Xtians. And what about the marriage of the xtian church abd the state which is actually deleterious to both parties if they were truly aware.

T

[edit on 27-2-2010 by Tiger5]

Goodness. My apologies. I'm sorry I tried to point out that religious hate mongoring is rediculous. I never imagined I would be flogged for trying to show the rediculousness of misplaced hate, and trying to promote brotherhood and tolerance.

Maybe I should have left it truely negative. Maybe I should have just said those things without adding that it was nonsense. At least then I would have gotten several positive replies.

It says alot about the atmosphere here when the more negatvie your post the more positive the reception.

Forgive me for trying. . . .

reply to post by constantwonder


Whew! Glad I read the whole thing! Like that test in school when the teacher says "Now class, read ALL of the instructions." and of course the last instruction is "just put your name on the test and hand it in"

I would have to say that unless we have a society run completely by logic, scientific process, computers, inteligence and truth, people will always wonder, ridicule, and hate others for their beliefs, motives and actions.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by constantwonder

 

I understand what you are getting at but the modern pagan movement is not proseletising. Modern Xtianity is however a different thing with many public figures coming out as Xtians and offering opinion on everything and anything.


We can all make comments about ancient pagans as we can ancient Xtians. And what about the marriage of the xtian church abd the state which is actually deleterious to both parties if they were truly aware.

T

[edit on 27-2-2010 by Tiger5]

We can all make comments about ancient pagans as we can ancient Xtians.ex]

That was exactly the point. The misplaced hate and rediculousness that stems from those types of comments was exactly what I was trying to show.

reply to post by constantwonder


You're getting "flogged" because you completely failed to do what you tried to do! If you had been promoting peace and love in any effective way, you'd be getting positive responses. But instead, you did this:

Negative
Negative
Negative
Deathkilldeathkill
Eeeevil
BUT THIS IS ALL FALSE.

Okay, that's a paraphrase, not a quote, but still...

reply to post by constantwonder


Well if it's a plus, I read part of it and stopped to star and flag it.
Excellent thread. In the 6th chapter of Gen: God sees the world was
"filled with violence". Most definetly world wide human sacrifice was part
of that violence. It broke Gods heart so he fllooded the place. I believe
the Aztecs that were found in So. America were a throwback to that time.

3)satanism is not pagan, it is christian

Umm No Satanism isn't Christian. Satanism isn't really what you think it is.
It isn't the worship of Satan from what I understand. It is the worship of self in the spirit of Satan.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by constantwonder

Maybe I should have left it truely negative.

It is negative ... not because of what you said but for the reason you said it.

Your intent is retaliatory, borne out of your interactions with another member/members from other threads ... as such the mask of positivity is transparent and reveals your true motive, even to those who may not be privy to your preexisting and rising frustration with this topic. For no matter how you wish to portray it, it is for the above stated reasons, at it's foundation, an act of aggression.

That doesn't mean that there is no worth to it, just not the one you are trying to convey.

I don't mean to be hurtful CW, I really don't ... but as it states in my signature, "A taste for truth at any cost is a passion which spares nothing." and no one.

Regards.

[edit on 27 Feb 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Ugh, of course on a level your right Sdog. I truely want for the fighting to end. For the hate to be dashed out. I let my own personal vendetta bleed out and contaminate the message I so desperately want to share.

What i really wanted to be taken from all of this was simple and could have stood alone without the lowbrow baiting and for that behavior I apologize.

I will, however, stand by my closing statement.

I have nothing but respect and hope for peoples of all religions. All I want is the same kind of treatment from the same people i respect and hope for. Is it so much to ask that if you expect tolerance from me your going to have to show me the same courtesy?

Stop bashing your neighbor. Stop fearing the past. Stop the sweeping statements and stereotyping. Embrace your brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all flawed but most of us are good people. Let's start loving each other. Let's work towards a respectful future. A future united under a banner of humanity and love. Where labels like christian, pagan, muslim, buddhist, etc. are obsolete. And above all else lets DENY IGNORANCE.

reply to post by constantwonder




No modern pagan is gonna eat people, not unless they're a sick freak.

Most religions have bizarre practices like human sacrifice or animal sacrifice at their roots. Read the Old Testament and see how God finds the smell of burning animal flesh pleasing and then wonder what kind of a sicko God likes the smell of burning animals. Even Christianity is based on the sacrifice and horrific death of an innocent man and celebrates rituals of drinking his blood, eating his body, and bathing in his blood to wash away sins.

Most religions started out weird like that, they all had rituals that were a bit unsavory. But modern people with modern faiths don't follow those old ways. Nobody is burning witches in the Western world. Faith is often versatile, it adapts.

Human sacrifice is not gonna make a come back.

I understand what you are getting at though, anyone can stereotype. However I also understand those who want to draw attention to the sordid past of religion. Better to remember the bloody history than to repeat it... then again the odds of repeating all that are slim in this age of logic where science is a click away.

Edit to Add: I think the reason many take aim at religions is because of the fundamentalist movement. Religion, as I said, typically adapts as society changes. Sometimes though there are proponents of a religion who don't want to adapt and create a fundamentalist movement. This is dangerous backwards thinking, people afraid of the natural changes to their faith that come as society evolves. These fundamentalists do bear a resemblance to those who were extreme enough in their belief to kill.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by constantwonder

 

No modern pagan is gonna eat people, not unless they're a sick freak.

Most religions have bizarre practices like human sacrifice or animal sacrifice at their roots. Read the Old Testament and see how God finds the smell of burning animal flesh pleasing and then wonder what kind of a sicko God likes the smell of burning animals.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Everyone loves a good bar-b-que

Joking of course.