found this while reading over haarps offical page.

reply to post by cronotrigger30
Hi Crono,
I think this is the link that donny posted,

www.cornswalled.com...

reply to post by smurfy


Notice how they don't cite their sources, and nothing else was mentioned in any other news source. To trust that one site is ludicrous.

reply to post by cronotrigger30


maybe they are tired of hearing the question when it hasn't been proven?

-Kyo

Here's interesting comments on quotes from Dr Rosalie Bertell,

----- The layers of our atmosphere are so little understood that no one can possibly know the impact of cutting the ionosphere open, or of making it bulge like a lens. Moreover, she points out that scientists have warned that the energy from HAARP may combine with a natural wave frequency with results which are 'quite disproportionate to the level of input' - including disrupting the harmony between 'earth life forms….and….earth's life support systems'.

And this,

----- Nor is that all. Dr Bertell says that both HAARP and installations in Russia - on which America has, remarkably, collaborated - can also create pulsed, extremely low frequency (ELF) waves which have been directed deep into the earth itself, potentially disrupting delicately poised tectonic plates of the earth's crust, such as those of California's San Andreas fault. Given the little understood interplay between tectonic plates, volcano's and the earth's molten core, to call this playing with fire would be an absurd understatement.

And this,

-----Dr Bertell suggests that so great is the power of such transmitters that even living near them could be dangerous. She quotes a US federal Environmental Impact statement which says that HAARP can 'raise the internal body temperature of nearby people …(and) detonate aerial munitions, scramble aircraft communications and flight controls'. Even slight increases in body temperature can alter functioning of brain and body and, as she points out, even a small rise in electromagnetic radiation may cause an increase in cataracts and leukaemia and alter brain and body chemistry, blood pressure and heart rates. But such direct harm is the mere tip of the iceberg.

This is a Wiki link to Dr Rosalie Bertell,

en.wikipedia.org...

All above quotes are taken from a commentary on her book, Planet Earth the Latest Weapon of War, (circa 2000) there may be updates on this book, I don't know as yet.




[edit on 1-3-2010 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy


A second of sunlight will affect the ionosphere far more than HAARP ever will through its entire lifetime. HAARP doesn't split the ionosphere open, or cause a bulge, it just stimulates it in a similar way to the sun, but on a tiny, tiny level. It's useful because it can be controlled, whereas the sun's output can not be.

I'm fed up of all this nonsense. It's really old, played out, patently untrue, and yet people on ATS keep regurgitating it like it's important or even accurate. It's neither.

reply to post by smurfy

Dr. Bertell has a doctorate in something called "biometrics". While she has done many fine things it does not make her an expert in electromagnetic physics.

The ionospheric heater does not "cut the ionosphere open" it heats a small portion of it. It does not make it "bulge", it heats a small portion of it. I would like to know what scientists have made that warning about HAARP which she mentions.

ELF radio waves many times more powerful than those produced in the ionosphere by HAARP are produced naturally. I have yet to see an explanation of how ELF radio waves can cause any physical effects in the Earth.

Since the EIS was granted for HAARP it doesn't make sense that it poses the dangers she speaks about. It sounds like she is quoting out of context.

Why are you guys posting anythingh about this. I understand it can be new info for you. In 2001 rockefeller who were a part of the funding of the Haarp told his friend about both haiti\afganistan\iraq\Cheves and venezuela- This is recorded on tape as evidence with the cia, if you havent heard it- too bad. But its a fact that harp can do many things,its a very handy product for the future.but one of the plans for it is using it for proviking earthquakes. = a good solution for tactical warfare strategy.

No theories,no ideas..but FACTS-

No wonder the government never tell us anything,we cant even notice the simplest things.

Our race is at a very sceptical rate atm- wich makes us dangerous.Some wont even understand or belive if they see it infront of their eyes.

The government can do whatever they want,because the majority will say"ah its just hoax\its just theories"- We have never been more unintelligent if you look at it in the big picture.

Isreal have even informed PER NEWS that they have a Weather Generator,wich provokes weather..hehe why cant harp do the same? Well it Can...WAKE UP.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by cronotrigger30

 

They say that because there are a bunch of "enthusiasts" out there with little to no understanding of the ionosphere (or EM radiation), and claim that HAARP can manipulate the weather. As the section is called "Frequently asked questions", and that is a frequently asked question, the reason why they have that on their site is self-explanatory. They are trying to quell the conspiracy theorists who claim, without any evidence, that HAARP is anything other than it claims to be.

It's more of a reflection on the pathetic state of baseless conspiracy theories than HAARP itself. HAARP is completely transparent in its operation - it simply has to be, as it is a broadcasting site, and as such can interfere with other broadcast transmissions from other equipment. There is no way HAARP can be engaging in anything strange as claimed without thousands of amateur radio operators and scientists noticing. It's one of the more absurd conspiracies out there, as it would be incredibly easy to prove, if the believers could be bothered, or even knew what they were looking for. Which they don't.

Why are you guys posting anythingh about this. I understand it can be new info for you. In 2001 rockefeller who were a part of the funding of the Haarp told his friend about both haiti\afganistan\iraq\Cheves and venezuela- This is recorded on tape as evidence with the cia, if you havent heard it- too bad. But its a fact that harp can do many things,its a very handy product for the future.but one of the plans for it is using it for proviking earthquakes. = a good solution for tactical warfare strategy.

No theories,no ideas..but FACTS-

No wonder the government never tell us anything,we cant even notice the simplest things.

Our race is at a very sceptical rate atm- wich makes us dangerous.Some wont even understand or belive if they see it infront of their eyes.

The government can do whatever they want,because the majority will say"ah its just hoax\its just theories"- We have never been more unintelligent if you look at it in the big picture.

Isreal have even informed PER NEWS that they have a Weather Generator,wich provokes weather..hehe why cant harp do the same? Well it Can...WAKE UP.

reply to post by Archirvion


Got any evidence for that avalanche of conjecture? No? Wow.

Hi David,
It took all of five minutes for you to digest Dr Rosalie's statements, and pronounce on just one of them. Then you add, "HAARP in it's lifetime" whassat mean ?
All there is, is a pdf file on it's original proposal, and not much else, although it does mention "rippling" the ionosphere. That was then, not now,

foia.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 1-3-2010 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy


It means exactly what I said it does - in the length of time in which the facility will be running.

And yes, it takes seconds to see that those quotes are hideously incorrect.

We know what equipment they have there - that is public knowledge. Unless they've invented an entire new kind of physics that no one else on the planet has ever even thought possible (hint: they've not), then we know what they can do with it. We know the entire power output of the entire developed world is nowhere near as much energy as the sun bathes us in in as much time, so unless HAARP can use all the Earth's power, and then some, it can't possibly stick as much energy into the ionosphere.

The ionosphere is ionised by the sun's radiation. Without the sun there would be no ionosphere. It doesn't take a genius in biometrics to figure out she's full of it.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by smurfy

 

Dr. Bertell has a doctorate in something called "biometrics". While she has done many fine things it does not make her an expert in electromagnetic physics.

The ionospheric heater does not "cut the ionosphere open" it heats a small portion of it. It does not make it "bulge", it heats a small portion of it. I would like to know what scientists have made that warning about HAARP which she mentions.

ELF radio waves many times more powerful than those produced in the ionosphere by HAARP are produced naturally. I have yet to see an explanation of how ELF radio waves can cause any physical effects in the Earth.

Since the EIS was granted for HAARP it doesn't make sense that it poses the dangers she speaks about. It sounds like she is quoting out of context.

Hi Phage,
I said it was interesting what she has to say, and people are entitled to hear what she said, all of ten years ago. I think she may well be good at getting "under the radar" in her position. You are right about the tearing a Hole bit as HAARP is/was identified in the old pdf file, I'm not so sure of no bulging, since the file mentions "rippling of the Ionosphere" but that ripple would need to be advantages in some way. Either way it is an artificial, induced disturbance. Now there are other parts in her book that mention a China Earthquake (when either ELF or ULF waves were detected) as a possible HAARP operation, but those waves could well have been produced by the Earthquake itself, and did disturb the Ionosphere, so in that way we are in the realm of the unknown, as we we are as to how HAARP is constituted today, we just don't know.
I found this quote from Bernard Eastlund, supposedly from 1997,

"HAARP's inventor, Bernard Eastlund, says there's no cause for concern - yet. "What's up there now is not, in my opinion, big enough to be concerned about. It has to be used judiciously, but it's not the kind of power level that can do the stuff that's in my patents yet. But they're getting up there. This is a very powerful device. Especially if they go to the expanded stage." Is this a true quote?


[edit on 1-3-2010 by smurfy]

Originally posted by freeradical1
if and how this energy can be focused, i dont know.

It looks as if the energy cant be focased say like any sort of directional on comand sort of thing. Anyone?

reply to post by Logarock

The higher the frequency used the tighter the beam but it is not "focused" it, still spreads out quite a bit by the time it reaches the ionosphere.

The beam can be depressed up to 30º from vertical so at an altitude of 200km the affected region might be 115km away from Gakona.

Originally posted by ToHoldaPigeon
Can't or Won't.....for now?

Originally posted by cronotrigger30
Is HAARP capable of affecting the weather?
The HAARP facility will not affect the weather.

Kinda funny how they write "will not" instead of "can not".

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Jezus]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Logarock

 

The higher the frequency used the tighter the beam but it is not "focused" it, still spreads out quite a bit by the time it reaches the ionosphere.

The beam can be depressed up to 30º from vertical so at an altitude of 200km the affected region might be 115km away from Gakona.

Are you saying then that harp really has only a small area that it can effect. I mean its not like some are basically saying, the sort of thing you could turn and bombard any point on the palnet?

reply to post by Logarock

That's right. A small area over southeastern Alaska.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by smurfy

 

That link is absolute nonsense. It is physically impossible to do what it says. You have to replace physical components of an antennae array if you are to increase the power.

The military interest in the site is due to it researching communications, surveillance, and communications jamming.

It is not, and never has been, and no-one is trying to make it, an actual weapon. That is why HAARP has to have that message on its page, because people keep slandering it in such a way.

reply to post by drew hempel

 

All without evidence. As usual.

reply to post by cronotrigger30

 

It's just a research station. Its capabilities are well-known to the scientific world (but not to the amateur "enthusiasts" who claim it can change the weather). Its broadcasting schedule is public. You can even tour the site. It's not even being run by the US government any more.

But this is pointless - those who believe HAARP to be something scary will always think so, as they're doing so through wilful ignorance.

Conspiracy Theory's Jesse Ventura on HAARP (pt1/6)

The young son of the man who owned the patents before the military took over says differently.

Some more info,
Ionospheric deformation,
Nathan Blaunstein,

Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, P.O. Box 563, Beer-Sheva 84105, Israel

Received 9 August 1995; accepted 10 August 1995. ; Available online 30 November 1999.

Abstract
Using numerical simulation of a non-stationary problem of thermodiffusion and diffusive spreading of the electron component of the dense cold ionospheric plasma, the processes of formation and relaxation of strong disturbances of the electron temperature and concentration in the E- and F-regions of the middle-latitude ionosphere are examined, taking into account the altitudinal distribution of the electron transport coefficients. The cases of local heating and heating at separated altitudes of the ionospheric plasma by powerful radio waves generated from ground-based HF-facilities are numerically investigated. The numerical simulations of the non-stationary problem are compared with the analytical evaluations carried out for the stationary and quasi-stationary heating models. Results obtained from numerical experiments give good explanations of the experimentally observed deformation of the altitudinal ionospheric plasma density profile and the creation of negative cavities in the upper ionosphere and positive cavities in the lower ionosphere during the process of plasma heating.

You could almost say it causes "a bermp" in the Ionosphere.


[edit on 1-3-2010 by smurfy]

This is really good news If true, (it almost warrants a thread of it's own) and if you want to be conspiring, you could say that the Chinese are worried about HAARP, and Hong Kong the next target,

news.softpedia.com...
Some other heads there are interesting too.