Obama 'Birther' Row Rears Its Head Again

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
if a requirement of natural born citizenship is made, and there is, one does not sate that requirement by not providing proof. (...) there has been no proof, beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt, shown to me from either side, so i remain undecided. (...) if that sounds crazy to you, then you sound crazy to me.

It doesn't sound crazy to me, but your demands are based on the assumption that this proof you ask for must be shown to you for the President to legitimately hold the office. Care to point out to me, whether be it in the Constitution or any federal law, were it requires candidates to provide the public with their birth certificates?

From my understanding each state requires a certification of the candidates (President and Vice-President) be sent to the state's Secretary. No one raised any problems then. According to the 12th Amendment Congress certifies the Electoral College. From a FOX News article of January 08 2009

Barack Obama has been officially certified as the next president of the United States.

Though Obama has gone by the title of president-elect since his Nov. 4 victory, the House and Senate performed the formality of tallying the Electoral College votes in a joint session on Thursday. (...)

Though the certification is a centuries-old ritual with a typically known outcome, this was the first non-contested Electoral College certification since 1996.

No one raise any problems then either.

All the Secretary of States, democrats and republicans, and Congress certified Obama and Biden. Common sense is on the side of Obama being qualified. It's the birthers who have to provide the proof that Obama isn't qualified.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by vkey08
Why yes it is wrong, it is a violation of Federal Law set down in our Constitution... Personally I'd like to see all new elections held if it turned out that was the case

It doesn't matter what you'd like to see or not, what matters is what's in the Constitution as you pointed out in regards to the natural born citizen clause. You can't, on one hand, say the Constitution must be followed and then make up your own laws because you don't like the party that's in power right now. There is nothing in the Constitution about having new elections in case the President is removed from office.

The 25th Amendment makes it clear that if the President resigns, dies or is removed from office then the Vice President shall become President.

oh I am 100% with you on that, i know legally there wouldn't be new elections... Its just a want, and I believe I stated, and if I didn't I will now, if a Dem or Rep won, it wouldn't matter so long as they filled the requirement..

Originally posted by vkey08

Originally posted by oldspeak
reply to post by Rising Against

 

"The White House has consistently dismissed the issue. Authorities in Hawaii have provided an electronic record of Obama's birth because the paper copy was destroyed in a fire which wiped out much of the state's archives."

OH? Then how is this possible?
____________________________________________
CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
DIRECTOR
Phone: (808) 586-4410
Fax: (808) 586-4444
___________________________________________
For Immediate Release: July 27, 2009 09-063
STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital
records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement
or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

hawaii.gov...

I would love to hear a really good explanation as to why he should not just show the original long form birth certificate. I think he probably was born in Hawaii but would also really like to know what he is hiding. It also bothers me that all that we know about him is what he has told us.

Because it doesn't exist, by the OP's article's own admission. It was destroyed in a fire..

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon....

im not going to open up with a snide comment, just gona get to the meat... but just know it would be way easy.

you obviously didnt read the post there, just stopped at his comment.... FUKINO SAID HE SAW THE ORIGINAL.... if it was destroyed how did he do that??



Removed long lines in quote - stretching page

[edit on 6/3/10 by masqua]

Originally posted by Koolcdj69
The Birther Movement seems to have no point to me, if they have no evidence upon that Obama was not born in the US than there is no reason to allow them to bring it to court, an argument is not the same as evidence.
And let's say out of some crazy miracle they find that he WASN'T born in the USA. What's that prove? That means you voted in a non-citizen because you believed in him, is that so wrong? Oh no wait people want him impeached because the GOP can do so much better, or because he hasn't played God and fixed the economy faster than you say Barack Hussein Obama.


Pfft, just rename the Birther's to the GOP's naysayer movement.

just about everything you said is wrong...

it is part of the deal in becoming prez that you are a natural born citizen. Obama hasnt proven this yet.

people who use this argument of 'he doesnt have to prove anything to you' i have this to say

if you enter a bar that you must be 21 to enter, the security asks for your ID and you say 'i dont have to show you #' guess what happens? you get thrown out

and a bar isnt as serious as our government, so why shouldnt we throw this man out till we see some proper ID?

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
if a requirement of natural born citizenship is made, and there is, one does not sate that requirement by not providing proof. (...) there has been no proof, beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt, shown to me from either side, so i remain undecided. (...) if that sounds crazy to you, then you sound crazy to me.

It doesn't sound crazy to me, but your demands are based on the assumption that this proof you ask for must be shown to you for the President to legitimately hold the office. Care to point out to me, whether be it in the Constitution or any federal law, were it requires candidates to provide the public with their birth certificates?

From my understanding each state requires a certification of the candidates (President and Vice-President) be sent to the state's Secretary. No one raised any problems then. According to the 12th Amendment Congress certifies the Electoral College. From a FOX News article of January 08 2009

Barack Obama has been officially certified as the next president of the United States.

Though Obama has gone by the title of president-elect since his Nov. 4 victory, the House and Senate performed the formality of tallying the Electoral College votes in a joint session on Thursday. (...)

Though the certification is a centuries-old ritual with a typically known outcome, this was the first non-contested Electoral College certification since 1996.

No one raise any problems then either.

All the Secretary of States, democrats and republicans, and Congress certified Obama and Biden. Common sense is on the side of Obama being qualified. It's the birthers who have to provide the proof that Obama isn't qualified.

i am unable to point out any such law that says the pres-to-be MUST provide citizens with proof, but what an unconvincing argument it makes...

'i wont show you any of my legit, vital info, even though i expect you to trust me with decisions that effect you and hundreds of millions of other people... just trust me...."

no, thanks.

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
'i wont show you any of my legit, vital info,

Except he has shown his proper birth certificate, which "birthers" like to ignore - probably because Obama is black, and they hate the idea that a black is the proper POTUS. Otherwise why havent they demanded to see previous Presidents birth certificates....

reply to post by dereks

Hi Dereks,

Well I think some conspiracy theories have grains of truth but that doesn't make them true. Like in 9/11 we probably had some intelligence that we probably didn't act properly on and there may have been some kind of cover-up regarding that fact, but it's a big leap from that grain of truth saying "something" was covered up to saying that we planned the attacks.

Likewise I think Obama is pretty secretive and may be hiding something, but it's probably not his place of birth as I believe he was born in Hawaii. But I can see the point of the people asking questions about this based on some research I did, for example we know EXACTLY where past presidents were born:

Richard Nixon - 37th President: 1969-1974

en.wikipedia.org...

Richard Nixon was born on January 9, 1913, to Francis A. Nixon and Hannah Milhous Nixon in a house his father had built in Yorba Linda, California.

Gerald R. Ford, 38th President: 1974-1977

en.wikipedia.org...

Ford was born as Leslie Lynch King, Jr. on July 14, 1913, at 3202 Woolworth Avenue in Omaha, Nebraska,

Carter was the first president born in a hospital:


Jimmy Carter, 39th President: 1977-1981

www.waymarking.com...

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr., the 39th President of the United States, was born in Wise Hospital (which is now the Lillian G. Carter Nursing Center) in Plains, Georgia.

Ronald W. Reagan, 40th President: 1981-1989

en.wikipedia.org...

Ronald Reagan was born in an apartment above the local bank building in Tampico, Illinois, on February 6, 1911

George H.W. Bush, 41st President: 1989-1993

en.wikipedia.org...

George Herbert Walker Bush was born at 173 Adams Street in Milton, Massachusetts[2] on June 12, 1924.

William J. Clinton, 42nd President: 1993-2001

www.nps.gov...

William Jefferson Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States, was born at the Julia Chester Hospital on the 19th of August 1946 in the small town of Hope, Arkansas

George W. Bush, 43rd President: 2001-2009

www.imdb.com...

Born in Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT

In fact, if Obama WAS born in a hospital (was he?), he would be the 4th president born in a hospital. If he WASN'T born in a hospital, then there are only 3 presidents born in a hospital. But we don't really know exactly where he was born do we?

At one point the Kapi'olani medical center proudly claimed to be the birthplace of Obama and they stopped making this claim, which seems kind of strange to me and seems to not calm the fears of those who wonder exactly where he was really born. There has also been some discussion about Queens Medical Center as a possible birthplace for Obama, but I've seen no definitive proof of exactly where he was born other than the Kapi'olani medical center claim which was mysteriously withdrawn.

Then you've got the seeming contradiction of the state of Hawaii stating two apparently contradictory things, that they have personally seen the original records and that the original records were destroyed in a fire, or something to that effect.

Anyway if I had to guess why Obama isn't just releasing his long form birth certificate to put all this to rest, I'd have to guess it's some trivial thing like which race box is checked on his birth certificate, which doesn't matter at all to me but is speculated to be of possible concern to some voters. Since he's mixed race then either box could have been checked.

But it's a leap to go from saying he's hiding something, which it seems like he is, to saying he wasn't born in Hawaii, I think he was born in Hawaii, I would just like to know exactly where, like we do with all the presidents which preceded him in my list.

So the fact that we seem to know the street address or hospital where the previous presidents were born may be be one reason why we haven't demanded to see their birth certificates, as it didn't seem like a mystery.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by 814ck0u7

Originally posted by vkey08

Originally posted by oldspeak
reply to post by Rising Against

 

"The White House has consistently dismissed the issue. Authorities in Hawaii have provided an electronic record of Obama's birth because the paper copy was destroyed in a fire which wiped out much of the state's archives."

OH? Then how is this possible?
____________________________________________
CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D.
DIRECTOR
Phone: (808) 586-4410
Fax: (808) 586-4444
____________________________________________
For Immediate Release: July 27, 2009 09-063
STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital
records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement
or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

hawaii.gov...

I would love to hear a really good explanation as to why he should not just show the original long form birth certificate. I think he probably was born in Hawaii but would also really like to know what he is hiding. It also bothers me that all that we know about him is what he has told us.

Because it doesn't exist, by the OP's article's own admission. It was destroyed in a fire..

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon....

im not going to open up with a snide comment, just gona get to the meat... but just know it would be way easy.

you obviously didnt read the post there, just stopped at his comment.... FUKINO SAID HE SAW THE ORIGINAL.... if it was destroyed how did he do that??

I beleive that's what i was referring to in MY post, how could they see it if it was destroyed.. You obviously didn't read my post correctly or note that I was replying to someone else.



removed long lines in quote - stretching page

[edit on 6/3/10 by masqua]

Every elected president brings to the White House a closet full of skeletons and Barack Obama is no exception. I don't think that the birth certificate issue will be a problem for him during this term, but if he decides to run again in 2012, it will become a huge thorn in his side. I believe this will be addressed on a state by state basis. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that one or two states are presently trying to pass legislation requiring that a candidate must produce a birth certificate that meets their requirements in order to have their name on the ballot.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This is the first time I've heard of it being destroyed in a fire... I've followed this story VERY closely and I've never heard that. Besides, how could Fukino have seen the original vital records (last year) that verify Obama was born in Hawai‘i if it was destroyed in a fire?

I'd like to know where sky news got that bit of info.

Anyone else hear about a fire in previous stories?

Edit: Don't tell me Sky is getting news tips from The Spoof???

Very confusing...

[edit on 2/27/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Not really. You see, Fukino saw the original birth certificate moments before she burnt it on the orders of Obama and then lied that it stated he was born in Hawaii.

Originally posted by MaxBlack
At present Obama has spent through attorneys an estimated 1.8 million dollars

That is a claim birthers keep making, please show some evidence for it.... You do realise his main lawyer working on the silly birther cases is working pro bono, dont you?

Why has Obama had 27 social security numbers?

Please show us a valid source that show the President Obama had 27 social security numbers....

Arabs payed for Obama's degree with Arab money directly to those at Columbia that would ensure Obama's degree and

That was a April fools joke...
www.snopes.com...

absence from attendance which was requested to be kept secret.

What absence would that be exactly?

Obama's missing time from Columbia

What missing time is that exactly - source?

Snip a typical birther rant devoid of facts.... just the same old already debunked birther lies!

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
i am unable to point out any such law that says the pres-to-be MUST provide citizens with proof, but what an unconvincing argument it makes...

On one hand you say the law must be followed—in reference to the natural born citizen clause in the Constitution—but when faced with the fact that there isn't any law requiring elected officials to provide the public with their birth certificate—what you personally want Obama to do—you dismiss it and call it an “unconvincing argument.”

It's this hypocritical stance and mediocre comprehension of the law that have you all mystified about why the Courts have been throwing out all the lawsuits filed by the birthers. Of course that then, to you, the only logical explanation for this is that it's all part of a big conspiracy to elect a communist Kenyan to office.

'i wont show you any of my legit, vital info, even though i expect you to trust me with decisions that effect you and hundreds of millions of other people... just trust me...."
no, thanks.

You're uncomfortable with having to trust someone elected to office with their decisions? Guess what? That's what happens in a representative democracy.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
i am unable to point out any such law that says the pres-to-be MUST provide citizens with proof, but what an unconvincing argument it makes...

On one hand you say the law must be followed—in reference to the natural born citizen clause in the Constitution—but when faced with the fact that there isn't any law requiring elected officials to provide the public with their birth certificate—what you personally want Obama to do—you dismiss it and call it an “unconvincing argument.”

It's this hypocritical stance and mediocre comprehension of the law that have you all mystified about why the Courts have been throwing out all the lawsuits filed by the birthers. Of course that then, to you, the only logical explanation for this is that it's all part of a big conspiracy to elect a communist Kenyan to office.

'i wont show you any of my legit, vital info, even though i expect you to trust me with decisions that effect you and hundreds of millions of other people... just trust me...."
no, thanks.

You're uncomfortable with having to trust someone elected to office with their decisions? Guess what? That's what happens in a representative democracy.

to me, for a man in such a position as the POTUS to not be clairvoyant in the presentation of himself to the people is suspicious. thats what i meant.

as to your last bit, yes.

yes, mate, yes i agree. to the fullest.

when the individuals voice is not heard individually, there is lots of room for foul play.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by 814ck0u7
'i wont show you any of my legit, vital info,

Except he has shown his proper birth certificate, which "birthers" like to ignore - probably because Obama is black, and they hate the idea that a black is the proper POTUS. Otherwise why havent they demanded to see previous Presidents birth certificates....

good try dereks...

if any of the past presidents were the current president, i would be concerned with their credentials, but they arent, and im not.

there is legitimate concern, and for the president to not be completely transparent in the representation of hismelf to the people is very suspicious to me.

dont care much for bush

dont care much for clinton

dont care much for bush sr.

dont care much for reagan, carter, ford or nixon either, so i guess according to you i hate white people too? or just old white guys?

oh wait, thats right, i base my apathy/distaste for them on policy and choice of company....

please dereks, do us all a favor and just shut the # up

I'm new here and I have to admit somehow I splept thru this whole issue. NOW, seeing things unfold and the height of secrecy going on concerning BHO's FULL documentation I have to wonder and believe there is something quite pertinent he ( and the TPTB) are hiding. her is a compilation of info I provided on another site. hope it is useful.
Unveiled 1961 COLB!
The woman in this article presents her twin daughter's long form COLB and the numbers given for each of her daughter's births in relation to when BHO was born! Check It out and God Bless this courageous woman!
www.wnd.com...



I just found the article today. Now I'll tell you why I was so excited. i have worked in labor and delivery in two states and six different hospitals ( was a temp RN for awhile) the kind of birth certificates this lady showed are the type I am used to which is to say the LONGFORM complete WITH SIGNATURES...as required by law. The Mother's signature ( father too if available), Dr and attending nurses ALWAYS sign the long form, by law.
In 1961 (and I still believe they do it if they haven't changed a law or something) a person could REGISTER a birth in the state of Hawaii that took place elsewhere ( either other state, home birth or even another country.) All the short form truly proves is O's mom Ann Durham cared enough to have his birth registered on US soil. The scanned image his campaign released is not enough to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was born here! Even seeing the short form in person as some investigators have done is NOT the equivalent of the long form. It is simply the authorities of the state taking someone's word that the birth occured where and when they said it did. I also found the pictures loaded on the investigating parties I find suspect b/c the ones showing the seal...show JUST the seal. There were many other perculiaraities too. I believe I saw those on www.factcheck.org.... again they were NOT a longform. I do know it is a law they are unable to comment on or release birth records unless it is someone directly related that has need to get the documentation or the person themself. Sooo I just wonder if a new mother today, could go to Hawaii on the pretense of moving and subsequently request to have her baby's birth recorded ( registered) in Hawaii? 1961 wasn't forever ago. There has to be someone that witnessed O's birth. However, they would be breaking a law to reveal that. I think this is what the lady was trying to do by diclosing her own daughter's REAL records from the same time frame ,place.
Ok I am going to expound a little bit for those who have not worked in a field responsible for getting the legal information required for a longform birth certificate. I agree that the numbers could be out of order either due to human error or the possibilty of a different hospital getting a stack from a common supply. However, as I understand it both Ann Dunham and this lady delivered at the SAME hospital. It is my experience that the birth certificates are not pulled to be filled out until the birth has occured. NOT when a woman checks in while in active labor. However, a worker unfamilar with why birth certificates are supposed to be in numerical succession could have possibly put a blank form with the chart packet. Generally speaking people that work in labor and delivery and nursery are some of the absolute best at knowing why and how these documents are supposed to be used. It is not uncommon for a ward clerk to be mentored up to three months. Nurses new to the department are generally mentored for a minimum of 6 months and usually a year. Ok, another thing is that birth certificate forms are STANDARD thru out any given state (many states us the exact same form). The general public doesn't understand the difference between a short and a long form. Hawaii did state that no records were lost when they converted to a computerized system. So, We the people deserve to know.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Excuse me, but what has bigotry and racism got to do with Obama's birth certificate?

Absolutely nothing.. I am sick to death of that being brought up when normal everyday people who could care less what the race of the President simply ask that he show proof he is eligible to serve and quit hiding EVERYTHING about his past.

well my next question would be:

Since the building housing the birth records
was burned, there should be a news article
about it somewhere. Any chance of finding it
or is that gonna give us a dead end once again??

reply to post by dereks


There is no "probably." It is only because he is black.